Do objects get saving throws?

[Greywander]

They don't have stats, so I want to say they automatically fail. If you had an ability that required a save but could target both creatures and objects, would you need to specify how the ability works for objects since they don't get a save? Or is it just assumed that they're treated as if they failed any saves that are called for?

[Gignere]

They don't have stats, so I want to say they automatically fail. If you had an ability that required a save but could target both creatures and objects, would you need to specify how the ability works for objects since they don't get a save? Or is it just assumed that they're treated as if they failed any saves that are called for?

If it is unattended no saving throws and full damage, but if it is attended (used, carried, held, wielded) by a character it doesn’t usually get damaged.

[PhoenixPhyre]

They don't have stats, so I want to say they automatically fail. If you had an ability that required a save but could target both creatures and objects, would you need to specify how the ability works for objects since they don't get a save? Or is it just assumed that they're treated as if they failed any saves that are called for?

The DMG doesn't say. Many things that require saves either only target creatures or have specific interactions with other objects (ie shatter), but I'd generally just assume that they can't be targeted by mental save effects (if any don't specify) and automatically fail DEX/STR/CON saves, but are immune to any conditions that might be imposed unless the spell or effect says that it (for instance) sets flammable things on fire.

[ProsecutorGodot]

To my knowledge any saving throw spell or effect that specifies whether it targets a creatures or object has separated rules for them, see Disintegrate and True Polymorph for a few examples. Seems it skips the saving throw entirely.

There are rare cases however where something is considered an object and is given some ability to make saving throws, the Artillerist's Turret is an example.

I'd say barring any of those few specifics, it's up to the DM.

[Cheesegear]

There are rare cases however where something is considered an object and is given some ability to make saving throws...

The rules for boats - and other Vehicles - kind of confuse me. But I muddle through it.

[Greywander]

The specific context is a homebrew ability for a slime race that lets them do acid damage to a creature they are grappling or is grappling them, or to objects they are carrying. It was initially automatic damage (no save, no attack), but I decided to allow a CON save for half damage (and might later change it to save for no damage; it's an at-will racial feature, but it does require you to grapple or be grappled).

The thing is, I want to anticipate an edge case where an object is somehow able to make saving throws, such as the aforementioned artillerist cannon. I could also see sentient items getting CON saves. Both of these blur the line between a creature and an object, and then there's constructs on the other side. What even makes something a creature or an object? A normal chair is an object, but if you animate that chair so it can walk around, it becomes a creature? This doesn't even require magic, a robot is really just a glorified object, but would be treated as if it were a creature.

I almost want to say that objects should be treated as creatures, with stats and everything, but perhaps with the Incapacitated or Unconscious condition. If you animate that object, it stops being incapacitated/unconscious and just uses its already existing stats. Then again, statting up items is probably more trouble than its worth.

[Unoriginal]

The specific context is a homebrew ability for a slime race that lets them do acid damage to a creature they are grappling or is grappling them, or to objects they are carrying. It was initially automatic damage (no save, no attack), but I decided to allow a CON save for half damage (and might later change it to save for no damage; it's an at-will racial feature, but it does require you to grapple or be grappled).

The thing is, I want to anticipate an edge case where an object is somehow able to make saving throws, such as the aforementioned artillerist cannon. I could also see sentient items getting CON saves. Both of these blur the line between a creature and an object, and then there's constructs on the other side. What even makes something a creature or an object? A normal chair is an object, but if you animate that chair so it can walk around, it becomes a creature? This doesn't even require magic, a robot is really just a glorified object, but would be treated as if it were a creature.

I almost want to say that objects should be treated as creatures, with stats and everything, but perhaps with the Incapacitated or Unconscious condition. If you animate that object, it stops being incapacitated/unconscious and just uses its already existing stats. Then again, statting up items is probably more trouble than its worth.

The distinction between creatures and objects is a mechanical one, not a question of nature.

Some objects, like ships or infernal war machines, have stats, because it's easier for them to interact with the rules that way, even if they're not able to act without a creature at the helm. Others objects can be given traits that makes them indistinguishable from creatures in how they interact wit the rules, so they get the full creature rules. And most of them, as you've noted, are more touble than its worth to stat, as they don't interact with the rules that way.

Personally I would say that an acid damage ability would more be a DEX-save than a CON-save (as you're avoiding the acid getting in dangerous areas, you're not powering through acid with your physical resilience), and so items wouldn't get a save unless they can move (by their own power or by someone else's). But it may be side-stepping the issue.

[Greywander]

Personally I would say that an acid damage ability would more be a DEX-save than a CON-save (as you're avoiding the acid getting in dangerous areas, you're not powering through acid with your physical resilience)
I went with a CON save because this ability requires you, an acidic slime person, to already be in contact with your target, via grappling if the target is a creature, or by carrying the target if it's an object. Dodging isn't possible, so a DEX save never made sense in this case. It's also why I started with automatic damage initially. CON as the save was the only one that made any sense in this case.

But yeah, everything else you said is probably correct. It's just a matter of which rules are easiest to use, and most objects don't need the full scope of creature rules, while some objects like vehicles work best as a half-and-half, and then constructs are simply easier to model as full creatures.

[Addaran]

I went with a CON save because this ability requires you, an acidic slime person, to already be in contact with your target, via grappling if the target is a creature, or by carrying the target if it's an object. Dodging isn't possible, so a DEX save never made sense in this case. It's also why I started with automatic damage initially. CON as the save was the only one that made any sense in this case.

But yeah, everything else you said is probably correct. It's just a matter of which rules are easiest to use, and most objects don't need the full scope of creature rules, while some objects like vehicles work best as a half-and-half, and then constructs are simply easier to model as full creatures.

Grappled only makes your speed zero, they can still attack, cast spell, etc. So it can be seen as only grabbing someone's wrist, instead of a full immobilization chokehold. So i think dex save would still makes more sense. The grappled character tries to deviate the slime's contact to more heavily clothed places or to avoid vital organs. Think of a kid trying to touch another kid's face with a dirty hand.
For objects, just full effect since you are carrying/touching it and it's not moving.

[Gignere]

What abilities require a save and target both creatures and objects? List them por favor.

Shatter and in this case OP wants to create his own monster ability.

[Gignere]

Can you quote the relevant text of Shatter?

Each creature in a 10-foot-radius Sphere centered on that point must make a Constitution saving throw. A creature takes 3d8 thunder damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one. A creature made of inorganic material such as stone, Crystal, or metal has disadvantage on this saving throw.

A nonmagical object that isn't being worn or carried also takes the damage if it's in the spell's area.

[Gignere]

So nonmagical objects take damage without saving throw, correct?

None that I can see. But only if it isn’t being worn or carried by a creature.

[Gignere]

To OP the ability closest to what you want to achieve is probably the 5e rust monsters’ powers + a mix of shatter.

That ability automatically destroys objects however if carried or worn it allows the creature carrying/wearing the object to make a dex save to avoid damaging their equipment.

[schm0]

Per the PHB (p. 185), relevant text included.


Characters can also damage objects with their weapons and spells. Objects are immune to poison and psychic damage, but otherwise they can be affected by physical and magical attacks much like creatures can. The DM determines an object's Armor Class and hit points, and might decide that certain objects have resistance or immunity to certain kinds of attacks. (It's hard to cut a rope with a club, for example.) Objects always fail Strength and Dexterity saving throws, and they are immune to effects that require other saves.

When an object drops to 0 hit points, it breaks.

A character can also attempt a Strength check to break an object. The DM sets the DC for any such check.

[quindraco]

Per the PHB (p. 185), relevant text included.

Bear in mind that this means either that you can use a steel hunting trap to cut through adamantite (if objects trigger the trap like creatures do) or, I suppose, hunting traps have magical creature-detectors embedded in them like spells do, ensuring they don't react to pressure unless a creature is inside the trap. Dexterity saving throws are usually more like Constitution ones than Strength ones - for example, if an AOE is going to hurt you, it's Dex for fire and Con for cold (unless you took a pre-existing spell and changed the type yourself), even though the only difference is the temperature of the AOE. It's bizarre having an object be immune to Con saves but auto-fail Dex saves regardless of context, especially since objects have an AC above 10.

[schm0]

Bear in mind that this means either that you can use a steel hunting trap to cut through adamantite (if objects trigger the trap like creatures do) or, I suppose, hunting traps have magical creature-detectors embedded in them like spells do, ensuring they don't react to pressure unless a creature is inside the trap. Dexterity saving throws are usually more like Constitution ones than Strength ones - for example, if an AOE is going to hurt you, it's Dex for fire and Con for cold (unless you took a pre-existing spell and changed the type yourself), even though the only difference is the temperature of the AOE. It's bizarre having an object be immune to Con saves but auto-fail Dex saves regardless of context, especially since objects have an AC above 10.

This is a very odd response. Do objects in your world get up and walk into traps very often? And how do you figure a trap cuts through adamantine, exactly?

As for Dex vs. Con in those spells, it's due to the nature of the effect. Dex saves are for dodging things like spinning blades or explosions, whereas Con saves test your health and heartiness, like poison or freezing temperatures. You seem to be conflating spell damage with save types, but not all spells that deal fire damage require Dex saves (Searing Smite or Heat Metal, for example) or that all cold spells require Con saves (Ice Knife or Snilloc's Snowball Swarm, for example).

[Addaran]

Bear in mind that this means either that you can use a steel hunting trap to cut through adamantite (if objects trigger the trap like creatures do) or, I suppose, hunting traps have magical creature-detectors embedded in them like spells do, ensuring they don't react to pressure unless a creature is inside the trap. Dexterity saving throws are usually more like Constitution ones than Strength ones - for example, if an AOE is going to hurt you, it's Dex for fire and Con for cold (unless you took a pre-existing spell and changed the type yourself), even though the only difference is the temperature of the AOE. It's bizarre having an object be immune to Con saves but auto-fail Dex saves regardless of context, especially since objects have an AC above 10.

RAW, you can use a quarterstaff to break a giant anvil in two. However, the PHB also mention you can give resistance or immunity to objects. Entirely fair to say you need a weapon of similar toughness to break something.

[schm0]

RAW, you can use a quarterstaff to break a giant anvil in two. However, the PHB also mention you can give resistance or immunity to objects. Entirely fair to say you need a weapon of similar toughness to break something.

Damage Threshold is an aspect of objects that can be applied in certain circumstances. Even a warhammer wouldn't break an anvil, because an anvil is built to be incredibly sturdy. The Damage Threshold rules (DMG p. 247) cite that an object has immunity to all damage amounts from a single attack below a certain amount. So a DM can use these rules to tell the player no matter how many times they whack the anvil with their stick it's not going to hurt it.

[PhoenixPhyre]

Damage Threshold is an aspect of objects that can be applied in certain circumstances. Even a warhammer wouldn't break an anvil, because an anvil is built to be incredibly sturdy. The Damage Threshold rules (DMG p. 247) cite that an object has immunity to all damage amounts from a single attack below a certain amount. So a DM can use these rules to tell the player no matter how many times they whack the anvil with their stick it's not going to hurt it.

And the DMG says you can (not must, can) assign objects hit points and ac if you need to. They don't have them by default--what it takes to break things is 100% up to the DM. Subject, of course, to the usual "they might lose their players if they're obnoxious about it" meta constraints. The rules themselves provide no binding constraints.

[Addaran]

Damage Threshold is an aspect of objects that can be applied in certain circumstances. Even a warhammer wouldn't break an anvil, because an anvil is built to be incredibly sturdy. The Damage Threshold rules (DMG p. 247) cite that an object has immunity to all damage amounts from a single attack below a certain amount. So a DM can use these rules to tell the player no matter how many times they whack the anvil with their stick it's not going to hurt it.

I was answering to quindraco who seemed to think no saves allowed for objects mean a steel bear trap will be able to cut through adamantine. I was pointing out that it's true for lots of sillier examples, without GM ruling. But the rules do mention immunity and resistance.

Damage threshold also doesn't change the problem that someone using a wooden stake vs someone using an adamantine dagger will do the same damage to the anvil, while lorewise, the adamantine is suppose to cut true pretty much any solid object.