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View Full Version : Optimization Best Cleric/Wizard Multiclass? (Core Rules Only plz)



DrFunkenstein
2021-07-07, 12:12 PM
Hello hive mind! I was looking over my friend's solid Fighter/Rogue multiclass and thinking it's nice that the two OG non-caster classes blend together so well. Then I got to thinking, if I were to blend the other two (Wizard and Cleric), how would I do it?

I'm sure others have given this thought, but a quick forum search didn't reveal any threads devoted to it, so I figured I'd start one.

I haven't put much work into this yet, but my first thought is trying to maximize the effect of my Cleric levels. To me, that means going either Life Cleric to make the most of my healing (Goodberry abuse, yes please) or going Tempest Cleric to make the most of my blasting (auto-max on a Lightning Bolt, yes please). Generally my Wizards are controllers, so I'm leaning towards Life Cleric. I know healing isn't really the optimal path for Cleric (thank you, Treantmonk), but it's definitely important and might balance well with the control and direct damage potential of the Wizard.

Thoughts?

RogueJK
2021-07-07, 12:26 PM
Need more details. "Best" Cleric/Wizard multiclass depends on several things, like what you want out of the Cleric levels, what you want out of the Wizard levels, and what your WIS and INT scores are.

Generally, most Wizard/Clerics builds involve just a 1 level Cleric dip to grab armor proficiency, some Cleric buff spells, plus a nifty 1st level subclass ability, and otherwise all Wizard levels. Typically going for one of the Cleric subclasses whose 1st level subclass abilities don't rely so much on your WIS, such as Knowledge Cleric, since most Wizards dipping Cleric will only be able to afford a 13ish WIS in order to qualify for multiclassing and will instead focus on on maximizing their INT.

From there, you'll need to decide whether you want medium or heavy armor, and if martial weapon proficiency is important to you.

There are a few compelling reasons to go for more than 1 Cleric level in certain situations, like 2 levels of Tempest Cleric to be able to maximize a few of your Lightning Bolt/Chain Lightning spells. But that puts you an entire level behind in Wizard spells known, so isn't always worth it.


To me, that means going either Life Cleric to make the most of my healing (Goodberry abuse, yes please)

Life Cleric usually isn't worth it as a 1 level dip on a Wizard, since you'll only every know 1st level healing spells like Cure Wounds/Healing Word from your Cleric dip. It's better as a dip for other classes who do have their own access to further healing spells, like Druid or Bard.

Also, neither Wizards nor Clerics get access to Goodberry, so getting that would require spending a feat on Magic Initiate Druid or taking another Druid level too...

LudicSavant
2021-07-07, 12:47 PM
Hello hive mind! I was looking over my friend's solid Fighter/Rogue multiclass and thinking it's nice that the two OG non-caster classes blend together so well. Then I got to thinking, if I were to blend the other two (Wizard and Cleric), how would I do it?

I'm sure others have given this thought, but a quick forum search didn't reveal any threads devoted to it, so I figured I'd start one.

I haven't put much work into this yet, but my first thought is trying to maximize the effect of my Cleric levels. To me, that means going either Life Cleric to make the most of my healing (Goodberry abuse, yes please) or going Tempest Cleric to make the most of my blasting (auto-max on a Lightning Bolt, yes please). Generally my Wizards are controllers, so I'm leaning towards Life Cleric. I know healing isn't really the optimal path for Cleric (thank you, Treantmonk), but it's definitely important and might balance well with the control and direct damage potential of the Wizard.

Thoughts?

Well, it's not "core rules only," but here's some guidance from me on Cleric dips for Wizards.


Color Key:
:D Optimal Option.
:) Good Option.
:| Okay Option.
:( Relatively Weak Option.

Cleric is a good dip for Wizards because it gives you armor + shield proficiency, an expanded spell list, 3 extra spells prepared (with a 14 Wis), 3 extra cantrips known (including the particularly valuable Guidance), and a subclass ability, all while keeping your slot progression intact.

Forge Domain 1: A +1 to AC, or a +1 to attack and damage for an ally. Great deal, unless you're in a game where you expect everyone's going to have +1 armor, shields, and weapons sooner rather than later (because it doesn't stack).

Life Domain 1 + Mark of Healing: This one is really good if you're playing a Mark of Healing Halfling. It's what makes your Aura of Vitality heal 120 hit points and all that good stuff. Other Cleric choices aren't even close for a Jorasco halfling. For a non-Jorasco halfling, it can still boost some things (Life Transference, Vampiric Touch, Healing Word, Cure Wounds, perhaps most notably Soul Cage), but... eh.

War 1: The only Wizard subclass that might care about this extra attack is the Bladesinger, and they can't benefit from the armor or shield.

Arcana 1: If you felt 8 cantrips wasn't enough, this'll get you two more. There really are enough good cantrips on the Wizard list that this isn't just a waste.

Order 1: Every single spell you cast that targets an ally allows them to get a reaction attack. Remember that yes, contrary to a common misconception, characters in an AoE count as targets by both RAW and dev-stated RAI and yes, if you're an Evoker Sculpting around allies, it still triggers this. If you have something like a Rogue in your party, they will love you to pieces.

Nature 1: If you want extra cantrips known, Arcana is better. There's just nothing you really want on the Druid list.

Death 1: Toll the Dead is one of the best attack cantrips, and this'll let you twin it at will. What's not to love? This is particularly well suited to Evokers, since Twinned Potent Toll the Dead is a helluva baseline cantrip for a full caster.

Grave 1: Not good for you. Even if you wanted to be a healer Wizard, this isn't even close to being as good as the Life Cleric dip.

Knowledge 1: 2 extra proficiencies, and Expertise in them, which officially gives you as much proficiency and Expertise as a Rogue... before you cast Guidance and just completely blow them out of the water. That, plus the fact that you're maxing your Int, means this makes you very good indeed at whichever knowledge checks you pick. Don't forget all the things that those skills do; for example, Arcana can be used to detect and disarm magic traps (even stuff like Symbol).

Tempest 2: 2-3 modest reactions isn't worthless, but it's not worth a whole lot either. If you're taking this, it's probably because at some point you want to take Tempest level 2 and start maximizing some lightning/thunder damage. An exception to the usual rule where you don't really want to consider Cleric 2.

Trickery 1: Basically allows you to give someone Advantage on stealth all day every day. That's pretty handy if anyone in your party likes to use Stealth.

Light 1: The ability to inflict Disadvantage on attacks as a reaction 2-3 times a day (depending on your Wisdom) might seem attractive, but it makes a smaller mathematical difference than you might think. Since it has to be declared before you know if the attack hits or misses, there's a high mathematical chance of it being wasted. The chance of the enemy missing you without Disadvantage, plus the chance of the enemy hitting you despite it, adds up to the chance of the ability being wasted. Turns out that this doesn't get much better or worse regardless of your AC, since a high AC makes them more likely to miss regardless, while a low one makes them more likely to hit regardless. It also can only affect a single attack, and means you can't use a heavier duty reaction like Shield or Counterspell later in the turn if needed.

Twilight Domain 1: Being able to grant Perma-Advantage on initiative would be enough to make this amazing on its own. And it just tosses on the ability to give the party 300-foot Darkvision on top of that.

Peace Domain 1: Holy heck, it's a Concentration-free +1d4 to attacks and checks for 10x the duration of Bless, and it scales with proficiency! This is bloody insane for a dip. Oh, and it tosses in a skill proficiency on top.


You can just remove the bits that refer to non-core stuff.

In core, I'm rather fond of Knowledge domain. But YMMV if your DM is a Bear Lore DM ("DC 20 knowledge result on bears! Did you know that bears maul their victims with their claws?")

Mitchellnotes
2021-07-07, 01:54 PM
I haven't put much work into this yet, but my first thought is trying to maximize the effect of my Cleric levels.

I think wizard gets more out of a cleric dip than cleric gets from a wizard dip. Part of this has to do with clerics getting many good features from level 1, armor proficiency, etc. A first level wizard doesn't really provide much of anything, so you're likely committed to at least 2 levels. A 2 level dip for war wizard or divination may provide the most value for the dip though.

As a wizard, it's hard to go wrong with a cleric dip assuming you don't mind delaying spells for a level. Armor, features, etc. are all good, and there are many channel divinities that could also work well.

Willie the Duck
2021-07-07, 02:18 PM
I think wizard gets more out of a cleric dip than cleric gets from a wizard dip. Part of this has to do with clerics getting many good features from level 1, armor proficiency, etc. A first level wizard doesn't really provide much of anything, so you're likely committed to at least 2 levels. A 2 level dip for war wizard or divination may provide the most value for the dip though.

I agree that cleric1 gives more to a wizard than wizard1 does to a cleric, but not that wizard1 doesn't provide much of anything. I have seen people playing clerics take Magic Initiate for a melee cantrip (and if they have the Int for it, a ranged ones as well), plus one of Shield, Find Familiar, or Absorb Elements. Likewise, I've seen clerics take Ritual Caster: wizard (admittedly for Leomund's Hut as well as the 1st-level ones). A level of wizard gets most of everything there, with the cost of a level instead of a feat. It's somewhat niche, but not overly so.

da newt
2021-07-07, 03:44 PM
Twilight 2 might be worth it for the very handy Twilight Sanctuary (and Turn Undead), but every level of Cleric slows down your WIZ spell progression so it's a steep cost.

Gignere
2021-07-07, 03:59 PM
Twilight 2 might be worth it for the very handy Twilight Sanctuary (and Turn Undead), but every level of Cleric slows down your WIZ spell progression so it's a steep cost.

Core only, otherwise I’d recommend Arcana domain which is probably as close to a wizard multiclass you can get that is still functional outside of wizard dipping cleric.

TyGuy
2021-07-08, 12:13 AM
What are core rules? Just PHB?

Yakmala
2021-07-08, 12:25 AM
When I take a 1 level Cleric dip as a Wizard, it’s almost always Knowledge Cleric. Having Expertise on two knowledge skills on a class that maxes out Int with the ability to self cast Guidance is fantastic and lets my Wizard feel like an actual sage with their super high rolls for Arcana and History.

MaxWilson
2021-07-08, 12:27 AM
I agree that cleric1 gives more to a wizard than wizard1 does to a cleric, but not that wizard1 doesn't provide much of anything. I have seen people playing clerics take Magic Initiate for a melee cantrip (and if they have the Int for it, a ranged ones as well), plus one of Shield, Find Familiar, or Absorb Elements. Likewise, I've seen clerics take Ritual Caster: wizard (admittedly for Leomund's Hut as well as the 1st-level ones). A level of wizard gets most of everything there, with the cost of a level instead of a feat. It's somewhat niche, but not overly so.

If I were going Cleric X/Wizard 1-2 I'd make it either Diviner 2, for Shield spell and Portent 2/day.

But in general I agree that Wizard X/Cleric 1 is more tempting, because armor proficiency patches a major vulnerability for wizards and because wizards have a more fun and proactive spell list.

DrFunkenstein
2021-07-08, 01:21 AM
What are core rules? Just PHB?

The 3 Core Rule Books are PHB, MM, and DMG. So yeah, pretty much just PHB as far as this convo is concerned. I assume Standard Array/Point Buy Ability scores and standard HP (if you don't use these at your table, I highly recommend both).

To all y'all who answered this question with non-core stuff, I bet others find it interesting, but I honestly don't, hence the request in the subject line. The expansions' Player Character materials are poorly designed, mercenary pay-to-play loot-boxes similar to EA Games shenanigans, IMO. I don't allow them as DM and I avoid them as a PC.

Folks are saying it's all about the 1 or 2-level Cleric dip. This is definitely a strong power move. On the other hand, I have a PC at my table who is a high-level Cleric with one or two Wizard dip levels, and he is also very strong, just FYI.

What I'm really hoping for is a design for something more balanced - a genuine multiclass instead of just a dip. For example, the aforementioned Fighter/Rogue is Ftr 5, Rogue 9. I have created a super-blaster who is a blend of Tempest Cleric and Dragon Blood (Lightning) Sorcerer, and he's pretty fun.

Maybe a more evenly split Cleric/Wizard isn't a good move, which is a valid response. I'm curious to see if anyone has found a way to make it work, or who has gamed it out and can conclusively say don't bother.

Wizard_Lizard
2021-07-08, 04:36 AM
In terms of multiclasses, life cleric certainly is a wonderful option!, Heavy armour is amazing on a wizard, it means that you can afford to dump dex in favour of wisdom, and obviously a little strength If you want plate armour! It does of course depend on which one you want to put the most levels in, but I'd definitely put more levels in wizard, with maybe only a 1 level dip in cleric. Because clerics are one of the most front loaded classes in the game.
probably 1 cleric (Subclass with heavy armour)/Wizard X

ShadowSandbag
2021-07-08, 05:16 AM
The expansions' Player Character materials are poorly designed, mercenary pay-to-play loot-boxes similar to EA Games shenanigans, IMO. I don't allow them as DM and I avoid them as a PC.
.

Not to derail the topic, but why the comparison to lootboxes? From what I've read, most of the issues there seem to be more about gambling mechanics using real money for things you are not guaranteed to be able to use, nevermind want. A 5e analogy in my mind would be if there were card packs of spells and weapons that you could only use if you had the actual card yourself, couldn't give it to anyone else or let someone else use it and had stuff for all classes mixed in so you might not even get items/spells the classes you like use.

More on topic I think going to 5 in both classes rather than dipping could be neat just for level 3 spells in both which could give some extra neat versatility as far as spell options. It might not be optional on other ways but I do like having lots of options.
Aldo while I don't have a list of spells in front of me, I imagine you could do something fun with Spirit Guardians and wizard spells that either move enemies or force movement.

Mitchellnotes
2021-07-08, 06:41 AM
What I'm really hoping for is a design for something more balanced - a genuine multiclass instead of just a dip. For example, the aforementioned Fighter/Rogue is Ftr 5, Rogue 9. I have created a super-blaster who is a blend of Tempest Cleric and Dragon Blood (Lightning) Sorcerer, and he's pretty fun.

The big difference between the more even split between the fighter/ rogue and wiz/cleric (or any caster really) is that the main mechanic for casters doesn't "blend."

Take the fighter/rogue. Both likely contribute in combat mostly through attacks, and out of combat through skills. While taking fighter levels slows sneak attack progression, it provides extra attack (and a fighting style) to help make up the difference. Taking rogue levels delays the additional extra attacks, but provides sneak attack damage and cunning action. Additionally, rogue adds skills, expertise, etc. This doesnt include all the extra things like battlemaster dice, assassin bonuses, or other subclass items. Even an arcane trickster/eldritch knight can blend well bc their casting stacks slots and keys off int.

I'm also going to guess that the fighter 5/rogue 9 is either str focused or dex focused, but isn't trying to use both.

When looking at caster classes in general, most of the level by level improvement is due to their casting. More spell slots and higher level spells. Most casters (cleric and wiz in particular) aren't getting a lot out of the class or subclass itself compared to the spells themselves. When combining casters, you get higher level spell slots, but miss out on the higher level spells. Compounding this, for a wizard/cleric, you also have 2 competing casting stats in int/wisdom, which spreads the character even more this (again, made worse with how casting progresses. You have to choose between splitting at when you get the next level of spells on an odd level or the ASI at 4/8/12).

Now, this isn't to say a character would be "bad," just that casters can miss out a great deal by multiclassing. The tempest cleric/dragon sorc is an example of a character that could work. I'm guessing the plan was sorc 14/cleric 6 prioritizing cha to utilize sorc lightning spells with cleric channel divinity, twinning buffs, etc?

For a more evenly split multiclass, a lore bard (maybe valor)/sorc split could work. Both key off cha, shared slots, metamagic could work well with some of the bard specific spells (twinned dissonant whispers), bardic inspiration and all of that. You'd still miss out on higher level spells, but the sting may be lessened due to magical secrets.

Long story short, i think you dont see more evenly split multiclass casters due to people wanting higher level spells. Multiclassing tends to be a quick dip or to grab something very niche from the other class as opposed to wanting to solit spell lists.

Keravath
2021-07-08, 07:06 AM
A couple things to consider ...

A full multiclass (as opposed to a dip) between wizard and cleric, significantly weakens the character since although they have the spell slots they don't have the spells.

In characters I have played I have often gone with 1 level of cleric and the rest wizard. The cleric level gives basic healing as well as spells like bless plus armor and shield proficiencies. I usually pick knowledge cleric for the two additional knowledge skills with expertise. It is nice being a wizard with expertise in arcana for example. This only delays your wizard spell progression by one level.

However, you also mentioned goodberry for some reason - this isn't a wizard or cleric spell.

If you want a multiclass that takes advantage of synergies between life cleric and spells like goodberry then you would be looking at a life cleric/druid or life cleric/ranger mix. I have a friend that played a 1 life cleric/X moon druid and had a lot of fun with it. The party had an immense amount of between combat healing and never needed to purchase healing potions just due to up cast goodberries. The same can work for life cleric/gloomstalker ranger but I don't think you are looking for a more martial take on it.

Gignere
2021-07-08, 08:31 AM
There are only a few combinations of relatively equal multi class full casters I would say is “good”. These usually exploit one or two synergistic subclass features or just rely on full minionmancy (but you don’t need multiclass to abuse minionmancy).

Like the infamous sorlock, that combines quicken with EB to really just dramatically increase the EB + agonizing blast damage in a couple of rounds. Because nova damage is better than sustained damage there is a niche for it.

Other things that are synergistic are like tempest cleric and draconic sorcerer to get some sorcerer lightning/thunder spells to maximize a couple of times a day.

One thing that can work well is just abuse minionmancy to grapple enemies and drag them into your spirit guardian and make them stay in it. So a necromancer 6 / cleric 5. Not sure how you feel about abusing the crap out of minionmancy to make things work well but that’s probably the best route for a good build.

RogueJK
2021-07-08, 08:32 AM
The 3 Core Rule Books are PHB, MM, and DMG. So yeah, pretty much just PHB as far as this convo is concerned.

Don't forget the Death Domain from the DMG. It can be a nice 1 level dip for a darker Wizard (like a Necromancer), gaining you medium armor and martial weapons, plus some low level Cleric spells, as well as allowing you to twin Chill Touch on two adjacent enemies.

Unfortunately, there are only two Necromancy cantrips in the PHB: Chill Touch and Spare the Dying. There were a few additional options included in later books, including Toll the Dead from XGtE and Sapping Sting from EGtW.

RogueJK
2021-07-08, 08:56 AM
On the other hand, I have a PC at my table who is a high-level Cleric with one or two Wizard dip levels, and he is also very strong, just FYI.

It's not as optimized as the Wizard with Cleric dip, but there's some potential benefit from a Cleric taking a 1 level dip into Wizard.

First is access to the various useful 1st level Wizard ritual spells, although the Ritual Caster feat is typically a better option to gain access to the full gamut of Wizard rituals.

Next is access to some Wizard utility cantrips and 1st level defensive Wizard spells like Shield. (As well as Absorb Elements, unless you're counting the free Elemental Evil Player's Guide supplement as also being a "loot box" :smallwink:.) You likely won't be able to spare a high INT to be able to make use of Wizard attack cantrips/spells.

Also gets you access to Arcane Recovery, which could be useful to gain back an additional 1st level spell slot per day for stuff like Shield, Absorb Elements, or Bless. Clerics gained a similar spell slot recovery option in TCoE, but if sticking to PHB only, they can't do that without a multiclass dip.


Dipping 2 levels into Wizard is less appealing, since it puts you a full level behind in your Cleric spells known. Most of the Wizard subclass abilities (with the main exception of Divination) don't really gain your Cleric enough to justify that steep cost. Abjuration's Ward will be tiny due to your minimal Wizard levels and likely middling INT. Conjuration is a niche utility option that rarely comes up in play. Divination's Portent is potentially powerful, making an enemy auto-fail something like Harm or Banishment or auto-hit with something like an upcast Guiding Bolt, and would be a solid reason to go 2 levels into Wizard. Enchantment's Gaze is potentially useful, but only if you can spare having a high INT alongside a high WIS. Evocation is only really useful if you're a Light or Tempest Cleric with access to additional Evocation AoE blast spells through your Cleric domain, since the Cleric spell list doesn't really include many on its own. Illusion's Improved Minor Illusion is situationally useful in the hands of a creative player. Necromancy's Grim Harvest is usually pretty minimal healing. Transmutation is another niche utility option that rarely comes into play.

Of those, only Divination is potentially worth the 2 level dip and being a level behind in spells, with Evocation or Enchantment also being possibly worth considering with the caveats noted above. (Unless you just really want the flavor/utility of something like Illusion, Conjuration, or Transmutation.)


But I'll note that for others who are not limited to just core books and who may want the Wizard/Cleric flavor, I agree with Gignere that the Arcana Domain from SCAG (plus taking the Ritual Caster Wizard feat) fills that nicely without needing any multiclassing.

diplomancer
2021-07-08, 06:46 PM
I'd say both a Wizard 1/Cleric X and a Cleric 1/Wizard X are quite good and complement each other very well. Cleric 1 gives to a Wizard Armor + shield, Guidance, and some good choices of subclass benefit. Wizard 1 gives to a Cleric Shield spell+Absorb Elements+4 Wizard 1st level ritual spells, as well as the SCAG cantrips.
For most cases, it'd be hard to justify getting that 2nd level in either of them. You CAN do it, but only if you are after a very specific combination.
As always in those threads, I suggest taking the dip level at CL 6 (right after the big power boost of CL 5).

sambojin
2021-07-08, 11:49 PM
Whilst not even the question asked, Druid 2-3 works great with Wizard. Just assume you're a really naturey Cleric.
Either Moon 2 for heap'sa wildshape, or Land 2-3 because having doubled slot recharge is always nice, and stacks of changeable low level spell prep, and lvl2 druid spells that last ages make it almost worthwhile retarding Wizard spell progression (nearly, not quite).

Little wildshape is actually really good even at CR1/4 no swim/fly, although big moon CR1 wildshape is better (it's amazing what a Giant Spider can do. It's like a free lvl2 spell slot). You still get medium armour, as long as it isn't metal, but there's usually some sort of ability to ignore the restriction or whinge for lacquered wood magic half-plate or something later on anyway.

It's a 2lvl dip (maybe 3), which is always annoying, being a full spell level behind. But between Guidance skills, lots of lockdown, Tasha's insta-familiars, and wildshape, it's pretty workable. Pairs well with Divination or Evoker, even just for Entangle etc, but there's lots that can work. Being able to prep in a couple of extra rituals isn't bad either, for when you really want your wizard spells for the big bangs and battle changers, but still want to see all the magic and talk to all the animals. And with druid spell prep flexibility, you can go from ritual pro to low level lockdown/ healer/ whatever whenever you please.

Arkhios
2021-07-09, 12:23 AM
Well, technically, you can get by with having two "ball-park" 16's in both int and wis, while the rest would still be decent, even if going by point-buy.

For example, a variant human: Str 13, Dex 8, Con 12, Int 16, Wis 16, Cha 8

It's important to pay attention that Chainmail, while heavy armor, only requires a minimum str 13 to use effectively (=no penalty to your speed). Because of dex 8, this is a rather optimal armor as well. Since there's no reason why you couldn't use a shield, your AC would be 18, easily, and frankly you don't need to worry about your melee ability all that much, because obviously as a wizard/cleric, your focus will be in spells anyway. Even with a 50:50 split, you can get both int and wis 20 at around level 16. Since you're a variant human, you could even get a free feat to taste. Since I have a "problem" with odd scores, I would take something to even out Str 13 to 14, but it's not exactly mandatory, it's just being me.

With that said, I would say that the most optimal split with cleric and wizard would in fact be 10/10, because that way you would get access to 5th level spells from both classes, and you would still keep your spell slot progression at full pace. Obviously, you won't get any of the higher level spells, but you can still up-cast your spells with those slots, so they are far from going to waste.

As to which sub-classes would make the best combination, there are several good pointers up-thread already. I would say that any domain that grants the Potent Cantrip domain feature at 8th level + Evoker would make a nice combo. That way, whenever you use a cleric cantrip that deals damage on a save, you get to add your wisdom to that damage roll, and thanks to Evoker, even if the target saves against the cantrip, they would still take half damage from it. You'd be at level 14-ish when you get this, but at that level, for example, word of radiance would deal 3d6+your wisdom modifier or sacred flame 3d8+your wisdom modifier. That's around the same power as a 2nd level spell, usable at will at that.

RogueJK
2021-07-09, 08:29 AM
Well, technically, you can get by with having two "ball-park" 16's in both int and wis, while the rest would still be decent, even if going by point-buy.

For example, a variant human: Str 13, Dex 8, Con 12, Int 16, Wis 16, Cha 8

It's important to pay attention that Chainmail, while heavy armor, only requires a minimum str 13 to use effectively (=no penalty to your speed). Because of dex 8, this is a rather optimal armor as well. Since there's no reason why you couldn't use a shield, your AC would be 18, easily, and frankly you don't need to worry about your melee ability all that much, because obviously as a wizard/cleric, your focus will be in spells anyway.

Or, you could do a Hill Dwarf (since PHB only), dump STR, and wear Plate Armor with no penalty. Starting something like: STR 10, DEX 8, CON 14+2, INT 15, WIS 15+1, CHA 8.

chiefwaha
2021-07-09, 09:50 AM
Maybe a more evenly split Cleric/Wizard isn't a good move, which is a valid response. I'm curious to see if anyone has found a way to make it work, or who has gamed it out and can conclusively say don't bother.

A fairly even split is really not even close to optimal, I personally wouldn't do it... But I think you hit on the nicest option in your first post, a Tempest Cleric/Evocation Wizard. Probably a 9/11 split, maybe an 8/12 if you really want an extra feat, but I think the spell levels are more important.

Arkhios
2021-07-09, 09:51 AM
Or, you could do a Hill Dwarf (since PHB only), dump STR, and wear Plate Armor with no penalty. Starting something like: STR 10, DEX 8, CON 14+2, INT 15, WIS 15+1, CHA 8.

Right. But a human could start with higher bonuses in the key abilities right off the bat, and be a bit more mobile.

Decisions, decisions. There is no right or wrong way to do this.