Magic Items at Bargain Prices – Wholly Within the Rules (3.5)

[Duke of Urrel]

Some time ago, I tried to build a ranger character with the Brew Potion feat. I was disappointed to discover that when a ranger brews a first or second-level ranger spell into a potion, the raw materials cost is usually the same as the full market price of a potion of the same spell brewed by a druid.

You can see why this happens by looking at the tables “Potion Base Prices (by Brewer’s Class)” and “Base Cost to Brew a Potion (by Brewer’s Class)” on page 286 of the Dungeon Master’s Guide v. 3.5 (2012).

Looking at this table, we might well wonder why any bard, paladin, or ranger would ever consider taking the Brew Potion feat – or any other Item Creation feat, for that matter. Why would anyone waste time and experience points creating something that one could simply buy for the same amount of money – or in many cases even for less money?

But if we look more carefully, we discover that maybe, taking an Item Creation feat isn’t pointless for bards, paladins, and rangers – provided that they specialize in creating a few specific magic items that they can actually create at a lower cost than a cleric, druid, or wizard could. For example, the Animal Messenger spell is a second-level spell for a druid but only a first-level spell for a ranger. Therefore, a ranger can create an Animal Messenger scroll, potion, or wand at a lower cost than a druid can.

The following list includes all the spells that I could find in the Spell Compendium v. 3.5 (2013) from which spellcasters other than clerics, druids, and wizards can create magic items more cheaply than clerics, druids, or wizards themselves can. (For good measure, it also lists all the spells I could find from which clerics with certain domains can create magic items more cheaply than clerics without these domains can.)

SL 2, min. CL 3 – Assassin – Blade of Pain and Fear
SL 2, min. CL 3 – Assassin – Illusory Script

SL 4, min. CL 7 – Assassin – Hide from Dragons
SL 4, min. CL 7 – Assassin – Modify Memory
SL 4, min. CL 7 – Assassin – Shadow Form
SL 4, min. CL 7 – Assassin – Vulnerability


SL 1, min. CL 1 – Blackguard – Corrupt Weapon
SL 1, min. CL 1 – Blackguard – Mark of the Outcast

SL 2, min. CL 3 – Blackguard – Blade of Pain and Fear


SL 1, min. CL 2 – Bard – Hideous Laughter
SL 1, min. CL 2 – Bard – Magic Mouth
SL 1, min. CL 2 – Bard – Obscure Object

SL 2, min. CL 4 – Bard – Battle Hymn
SL 2, min. CL 4 – Bard – Circle Dance
SL 2, min. CL 4 – Bard – Heroism
SL 2, min. CL 4 – Bard – Hold Person
SL 2, min. CL 4 – Bard – Know Vulnerabilities
SL 2, min. CL 4 – Bard – Mesmerizing Glare
SL 2, min. CL 4 – Bard – Rage
SL 2, min. CL 4 – Bard – Sonorous Hum
SL 2, min. CL 4 – Bard – Suggestion
SL 2, min. CL 4 – Bard – Tongues

SL 3, min. CL 7 – Bard – Charm Monster
SL 3, min. CL 7 – Bard – Confusion
SL 3, min. CL 7 – Bard – Crushing Despair
SL 3, min. CL 7 – Bard – Fear
SL 3, min. CL 7 – Bard – Geas, Lesser
SL 3, min. CL 7 – Bard – Remove Curse
SL 3, min. CL 7 – Bard – Scrying

SL 4, min. CL 10 – Bard – Break Enchantment
SL 4, min. CL 10 – Bard – Cacophonic Shield
SL 4, min. CL 10 – Bard – Dominate Person
SL 4, min. CL 10 – Bard – Hold Monster
SL 4, min. CL 10 – Bard – Legend Lore

SL 5, min. CL 13 – Bard – Dispel Magic, Greater
SL 5, min. CL 13 – Bard – Heroism, Greater
SL 5, min. CL 13 – Bard – Hide from Dragons
SL 5, min. CL 13 – Bard – Mislead
SL 5, min. CL 13 – Bard – Reflective Disguise, Mass
SL 5, min. CL 13 – Bard – Shadow Walk
SL 5, min. CL 13 – Bard – Suggestion, Mass

SL 6, min. CL 16 – Bard – Charm Monster, Mass
SL 6, min. CL 16 – Bard – Hindsight
SL 6, min. CL 16 – Bard – Irresistible Dance
SL 6, min. CL 16 – Bard – Shout, Greater


SL 2, min. CL 3 – Cleric-Air – Wind Wall

SL 7, min. CL 13 – Cleric-Animal – Animal Shapes

SL 4, min. CL 7 – Cleric-Arborea – Opalescent Glare

SL 2, min. CL 3 – Cleric-Deathbound – Blade of Pain and Fear

SL 7, min. CL 13 – Cleric-Earth – Earthquake

SL 4, min. CL 7 – Cleric-Fire – Wall of Fire
SL 7, min. CL 13 – Cleric-Fire – Fire Storm

SL 6, min. CL 11 – Cleric-Magic – Antimagic Field

SL 6, min. CL 11 – Cleric-Protection – Antimagic Field

SL 3, min. CL 5 – Cleric-Purification – Recitation

SL 2, min. CL 3 – Cleric-Travel – Locate Object


SL 1, min. CL 2 – Paladin – Energized Shield, Lesser
SL 1, min. CL 2 – Paladin – Restoration, Lesser

SL 2, min. CL 4 – Paladin – Awaken Sin
SL 2, min. CL 4 – Paladin – Checkmate's Light
SL 2, min. CL 4 – Paladin – Cloak of Bravery
SL 2, min. CL 4 – Paladin – Energized Shield
SL 2, min. CL 4 – Paladin – Fell the Greatest Foe
SL 2, min. CL 4 – Paladin – Flame of Faith
SL 2, min. CL 4 – Paladin – Knight's Move
SL 2, min. CL 4 – Paladin – Shield of Warding
SL 2, min. CL 4 – Paladin – Spiritual Chariot

SL 3, min. CL 5 – Paladin – Discern Lies
SL 3, min. CL 5 – Paladin – Magic Weapon, Greater
SL 3, min. CL 5 – Paladin – Undead Bane Weapon

SL 4, min. CL 7 – Paladin – Break Enchantment
SL 4, min. CL 7 – Paladin – Dispel Chaos
SL 4, min. CL 7 – Paladin – Dispel Evil
SL 4, min. CL 7 – Paladin – Lawful Sword
SL 4, min. CL 7 – Paladin – Mark of Justice


SL 1, min. CL 2 – Ranger – Animal Messenger
SL 1, min. CL 2 – Ranger – Delay Poison
SL 1, min. CL 2 – Ranger – Easy Trail
SL 1, min. CL 2 – Ranger – Embrace the Wild
SL 1, min. CL 2 – Ranger – Healing Lorecall
SL 1, min. CL 2 – Ranger – Lay of the Land
SL 1, min. CL 2 – Ranger – Resist Energy
SL 1, min. CL 2 – Ranger – Scent

SL 2, min. CL 4 – Ranger – Fell the Greatest Foe
SL 2, min. CL 4 – Ranger – Jagged Tooth
SL 2, min. CL 4 – Ranger – Lion's Charge
SL 2, min. CL 4 – Ranger – Protection from Energy
SL 2, min. CL 4 – Ranger – Snare
SL 2, min. CL 4 – Ranger – Speak with Plants
SL 2, min. CL 4 – Ranger – Spike Growth
SL 2, min. CL 4 – Ranger – Wind Wall

SL 3, min. CL 5 – Ranger – Burrow, Mass
SL 3, min. CL 5 – Ranger – Command Plants
SL 3, min. CL 5 – Ranger – Heal Animal Companion
SL 3, min. CL 5 – Ranger – Heal Animal Companion
SL 3, min. CL 5 – Ranger – Repel Vermin

SL 4, min. CL 7 – Ranger – Animal Growth
SL 4, min. CL 7 – Ranger – Aspect of the Earth Hunter
SL 4, min. CL 7 – Ranger – Commune with Nature
SL 4, min. CL 7 – Ranger – Swamp Stride
SL 4, min. CL 7 – Ranger – Tree Stride

I probably haven’t convinced any serious player who wants to play an assassin, a bard, a paladin, or a ranger to take an Item Creation feat merely in order to make extra money underselling local clerics, druids, and wizards. As an adventurer, you probably have better things to do with your time.

However, if you are a dungeon master, consider this. There may be NPC bards, paladins, rangers, and even a few assassins and blackguards who create magic items and make a decent living doing so. Probably they are old and retired from adventuring but have continued to advance in character level as mentors of younger characters – and as creators of magic items. Also, consider the possibility that, for strictly rule-based reasons, player-characters may be able to find magic items in unusual places at unusually low prices. Maybe these items are rare. Maybe finding them involves making a Gather Information check, traveling to a major metropolis, dealing with mercanes, or seeking out a reclusive aging paladin or ranger who lives as a hermit and sells only to an exclusive clientele.

At the very least, it is worth thinking about.

[JNAProductions]

Something like this (http://bg-archive.minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=12661.0)?

[AvatarVecna]

Very generally speaking, this is a trick understood broadly within the community. It mostly comes up for artificers and chameleons, who can grab spells from anywhere (either for casting or crafting purposes), and so it's useful to know who gets a spell earliest or for the cheapest price. Generally speaking, If you're not playing in a game where Artificers are allowed (or existent, depending on how the DM feels about that class and what game world you're playing in), then classes that get early access like this do have a certain advantage in making items that can deliver effects cheaper than their competition.

Another similar trick that's more useful to artificers than to the classes in question is, some builds have a way of getting spells at lower Caster Levels than normal. For example, if you built an Ur-Priest 9 who somehow has no levels in any other class that can cast, they would be casting 9th lvl spells from the cleric list at CL 9. Most classes that get their own casting progression have some neat trick that can be exploited about their caster level along these lines, with Divine Crusader and Sublime Chord being two of my favorites. Of course, you wouldn't build something like...an Expert 9/Ur-Priest 9 - they might be a caster capable of making super-cheap magic items, but their spellcasting is awful for their level. Even if you made them a monk 5 somehow instead of expert 9, they'd still practically be an NPC. This isn't a problem for an artificer (who can mimic the casting for crafting purposes without having to live with the downsides of a build that's intentionally shot itself in the foot), but it also means that there's theoretically somebody in a world with no artificers who can craft an item that produces a CL 4 "Disintegrate".

[Duke of Urrel]

Something like this (http://bg-archive.minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=12661.0)?

Cool!


Very generally speaking, this is a trick understood broadly within the community. It mostly comes up for artificers and chameleons, who can grab spells from anywhere (either for casting or crafting purposes), and so it's useful to know who gets a spell earliest or for the cheapest price.

Also cool. I need to learn more about artificers, above all in order to understand the role that they may play as NPCs.

EDIT: Let me add another question. The only mention of the "artificer" class that I have in any of the books that I own is the prestige class "gnome artificer" in Magic of Faerûn (2001). Is this the class that everybody means when they talk about "artificers"? Was it updated in version 3.5? Or is this a different class altogether?

[Kitsuneymg]

Just going to put the RAW that people always ignore when finding cheap items using alternate class lists.


Many factors must be considered when determining the price of new magic items. The easiest way to come up with a price is to match the new item to an item that is already priced that price as a guide.

So it is 100% RAW that a GM can force you to price your potion of haste at 750 GP (50% for crafting) regardless of what level you found by splat diving. As that is similar to the existing potion of haste in the magic item tables.

But you do got to love that editing error. Is that in the DMG or just the SRD? I don’t have that book anymore.

[JNAProductions]

Cool!

Also cool. I need to learn more about artificers, above all in order to understand the role that they may play as NPCs.

EDIT: Let me add another question. The only mention of the "artificer" class that I have in any of the books that I own is the prestige class "gnome artificer" in Magic of Faerûn (2001). Is this the class that everybody means when they talk about "artificers"? Was it updated in version 3.5? Or is this a different class altogether?

It's a crafty class from Eberron.

The Gnome Artificer from Magic Of Faerun is NOT the one that's spoken of, generally.

[AvatarVecna]

Just going to put the RAW that people always ignore when finding cheap items using alternate class lists.



So it is 100% RAW that a GM can force you to price your potion of haste at 750 GP (50% for crafting) regardless of what level you found by splat diving. As that is similar to the existing potion of haste in the magic item tables.

But you do got to love that editing error. Is that in the DMG or just the SRD? I don’t have that book anymore.

I feel like a potion of haste that lasts one round is worth much less than a potion of haste that lasts 5 rounds, but that's just my opinion.

[sreservoir]

Just going to put the RAW that people always ignore when finding cheap items using alternate class lists.



So it is 100% RAW that a GM can force you to price your potion of haste at 750 GP (50% for crafting) regardless of what level you found by splat diving. As that is similar to the existing potion of haste in the magic item tables.

But you do got to love that editing error. Is that in the DMG or just the SRD? I don’t have that book anymore.

Under the same heading (which is a "Behind the Scenes" sidebar on DMG 282):

Since different classes get access to certain spells at different levels, the prices for two characters to make the same item might actually be different. Take hold person, for example. A cleric casts it as a 2nd-level spell, so a cleric-created wand of hold person costs 2 (2nd- level spell) × 3 (3rd-level caster) × 750 gp, divided in half, or 2,250 gp. However, a wizard casts hold person as a 3rd-level spell, so her wand costs 3 (3rd-level spell) × 5 (5th-level caster) × 750 gp, divided in half, or 5,625 gp. A sorcerer also casts hold person as a 3rd-level spell, but he doesn’t get the spell until 6th level, so his wand costs 3 (3rd-level spell) × 6 (6th-level caster) × 750 gp, divided in half, or 6,750 gp. The wand is only worth two times what the caster of lowest possible level (in this case, the cleric) can make it for, however, so the market price of a wand of hold person is 4,500 gp, no matter who makes it.
which became this bastardized SRD text:

Since different classes get access to certain spells at different levels, the prices for two characters to make the same item might actually be different. An item is only worth two times what the caster of lowest possible level can make it for. Calculate the market price based on the lowest possible level caster, no matter who makes the item.
So by this standard, it's actually RAW that the market price is the price for the lowest possible level caster; it's the magic item tables that are in error. But it's also just clearly not the rule used to price items, as you can see on the potion/oil table (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/potionsAndOils.htm), which lists things like magic vestment +5 (i.e. CL 20) and includes enlarge/reduce person at CL 5 because the table is copied from 3e where those spells scaled with CL even though they don't in 3.5e.

More pertinently, the rules make a careful distinction between the cost to create an item and its market price, which is kind of lost in the SRD text, but there's no real arguing that the cost to create the item is exactly as prescribed by the type-specific item creation rules and their respective feats; the market price stipulation maybe implies that maybe you have to buy the items based on the price for the "caster of the lowest possible level" (which is a bit fuzzy—the lowest-level caster who can create brd 3/wiz 4 spells might be 7th-level either way, but it's cheaper for the bard to make it). Although actually, the arcane scroll tables contradict that anyway, listing things like obscure object (brd 1, sor/wiz 2) at 150 gp (i.e. 2*3*25), with this rationale:

Several arcane spells are different in level for sorcerers and wizards than they are for bards. Such spells appear on Table 7–23 at the level appropriate to a sorcerer or wizard (considered the default because bards typically don’t involve themselves in scribing scrolls). Examples: Tasha’s hideous laughter, suggestion.
even though, unambiguously, the caster of lowest possible level in Core for that spell is a 2nd-level bard, not a 3rd-level wizard.

Anyway, the takeaway is that, perhaps, if we take that line seriously, a trapsmith (earliest entry 5th level, so not the lowest level character who can create a haste scroll) can create CL 1 haste scrolls for 12 gp 5 sp + 1 XP, but sells them at half the market price of 375 gp...

[Maat Mons]

Kitsuneymg, you're quoting from the sidebar on DMG page 282 about inventing new items. Potions are not homebrew items we're making up. So the custom magic item pricing guidelines are really neither here nor there.