Enclave Master (Merchant Prince adaption from Power of Faerun)

[redking]

The Enclave Master is a suggested adaption of the Merchant Prince PrC from Power of Faerun. But the feat requirements are crushing for a PC or NPC Red Wizard.


The merchant prince works well in mercantile societies such as Amn, Sembia, and Waterdeep. If you replace the spellcasting abilities with "+1 level of existing spellcasting class" at each level, add a requirement of "any item creation feat," add a requirement of "member of Red Wizards," and reduce the base attack bonus progression to that of a wizard, this prestige class could be called "enclave master" and retargeted at members of the Red Wizards who run Thayan enclaves in cities across Faerûn.

Let's see. If they have the Red Wizard PrC, then they need Tattoo Focus plus a total of three metamagic feats or item creation feats. They might be able to get tattoo focus for free (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?620168-Red-Wizard-Tattoo-Focus-feat-is-free), but it requires DM adjudication. They need negotiator, business savvy, favoured in guild, skill focus (profession: merchant) and one item creation feat (potentially covered by the Red Wizard entry). That's 8 feats at minimum (up to 9 feats!) to enter this PrC.

Can anyone come up with a fix for this adaption?

[ciopo]

First thing that comes to mind is that membership in the red wizards does not mean "have levels in Red wizard PrC" to me

Considering this : there is a fair amount of lore support for there being undead red wizards, but that would not be possible with the race restriction of "human from Thay"

[Silly Name]

First thing that comes to mind is that membership in the red wizards does not mean "have levels in Red wizard PrC" to me

Considering this : there is a fair amount of lore support for there being undead red wizards, but that would not be possible with the race restriction of "human from Thay"

While it's true and I agree you don't need to be [Prestige Class X] in order to be a member of [Organisation X], I assume most of those undead red wizards were inducted in the order while they were still living humans.

So, looking at the "Enclave Master" requirements we need quite a few skill ranks, and three feats plus one item creation feat. Red Wizard of Thay requires Tattoo Focus and a total of three item creation feats or metamagic feats, in any combination. Skill ranks aren't a problem if we go INT-focused, and what I'm proposing below is a late entry.

Let's say we start as a level 1 human wizard. Wizard 1 gives us Scribe Scroll. We'll nab Negotiator as our first-level feat, and Business Savvy as our human bonus feat. Let's assume we get Tattoo Focus for free thanks to in-character actions at some point between here and level 6.

We still need two item creation/metamagic feats, Favored in Guild and Skill focus (Profession [merchant]). Let's grab that last one at third level, and at wizard 5 we get a item creation/metamagic feat. At level six we take the third and last item creation/metamagic feat, so that we can enter RWoT at character level 7.

All that's left is choosing Favored in Guild at level 9, and we now qualify for Enclave Master. So you'll be a Wizard 6/Red Wizard of Thay 4/Enclave Master 1. Feat starved, sure, and honestly I don't find Enclave Master to be worth wasting three feats on stuff like Skill Focus and Negotiator, but it's absolutely doable and pretty straightforward.

What I'd do: eliminate "Favored in Guild" as a requisite, just turn it into membership of the Red Wizards or at most having Tattoo Focus. Erase Skill Focus as a requirement as well, you already spent 8 ranks in Profession to enter this class. Negotiator and Business Savvy are still not good, but at least it's two feats instead of four.

[wilphe]

Negotiator and Business Savvy are still not good, but at least it's two feats instead of four.

They might not be necessary

1) Consider that for normal entry to Merchant Prince you are competing against other merchants including a bunch of NPC classes.

To be an Enclave Master you just need to be a better merchant than other Red Wizards

2) Enclave Master is as much or more an administrative and diplomatic position than it is being a merchant

3) You don't need that great a mercantile brain to run an enclave because you are supplying high ticket items that you are able to obtain in considerable volume and your competition is pretty limited

[redking]

They might not be necessary

1) Consider that for normal entry to Merchant Prince you are competing against other merchants including a bunch of NPC classes.

To be an Enclave Master you just need to be a better merchant than other Red Wizards

2) Enclave Master is as much or more an administrative and diplomatic position than it is being a merchant

3) You don't need that great a mercantile brain to run an enclave because you are supplying high ticket items that you are able to obtain in considerable volume and your competition is pretty limited

I agree. Perhaps negotiator, business savvy, favoured in guild, skill focus (profession: merchant) can be dropped in exchange for the skill ranks required normally and two item creation feats. Enclave Master isn't bringing anything to the table that would justify anything more. Any thoughts?

[wilphe]

Pulls it and checks it:

Well:

d6 hit die

6 skill points a level from a good list

Medium BAB

And you want to adapt it with full spell casting


That's already better than any other other wizard PRC

I didn't see anything on the spell list that sprang out at me as problematic, though I see it gets Arcane CLW.

I think you either need to knock it back to 3/5 spellcasting and/or put a requirement that implies a dip in something other than a 1/1 casting class before entry; like say 8 ranks in Diplomacy. There are ways of getting around that of course but they still take up build space

[Silly Name]

d6 hit die

6 skill points a level from a good list

Medium BAB

And you want to adapt it with full spell casting

That's already better than any other other wizard PRC

Notice that the suggested adaptation also suggests dropping BaB to poor. You gain some extra HP and skill points, but not much else. The skill list and points are nice, but an average of one or two extra HP per level won't change much. The class features are nice but not truly exceptional, and there are a few wizard PrCs that completely break the game in half.


I didn't see anything on the spell list that sprang out at me as problematic, though I see it gets Arcane CLW.

The class' spell list becomes irrelevant since "Enclave Master" doesn't get its own spellcasting progression, instead simply getting +1 to existing spellcasting class at every level.


I think you either need to knock it back to 3/5 spellcasting and/or put a requirement that implies a dip in something other than a 1/1 casting class before entry; like say 8 ranks in Diplomacy. There are ways of getting around that of course but they still take up build space

The skill ranks are hefty enough for a baseline Wizard/Red Wizard of Thay. Dropping spellcasting or making the entry even more tortuous doesn't really help this class.

[Zanos]

Considering this : there is a fair amount of lore support for there being undead red wizards, but that would not be possible with the race restriction of "human from Thay"
Undead humans would still count as human.

But I do agree that you could be a member of the organization of Red Wizards without levels in the Red Wizard prestige class. Red Wizards take apprentices for example, and a Red Wizard apprentice would still be a member of the organization even if they weren't yet high enough level to take levels in the Red Wizard PrC. You probably couldn't become a Zulkir, but I doubt they'd kick you out for not (over)specializing with the Prestige Class.

I dunno if the tats are optional, though. If you aren't contributing to your masters circle magic, they might actually kick you out.

[Anthrowhale]

Keeper of the Cerulean Sign is a class with a different fluff and different class features, but similar in the skeleton (d6 hit die, one good save, advances spellcasting, low BAB, 6+int skills/level). It has a two feat entry requirement (Craft Wondrous Item, and aberration banemagic). Unseen Seer is another classic with effectively one feat required (practiced spellcaster) and only a d4 hit die.

[wilphe]

Notice that the suggested adaptation also suggests dropping BaB to poor. You gain some extra HP and skill points, but not much else. The skill list and points are nice, but an average of one or two extra HP per level won't change much. The class features are nice but not truly exceptional, and there are a few wizard PrCs that completely break the game in half.

Fair on BAB

However most Wizard PRCs don't involve tradeoff and are straight improvement over more wizard levels because they have class features and/or better HP and skills.

If you are happy with that then this will not bother you.

However if you don't like then you may not be interested in adding another PRC that is straight better than wizard




The class' spell list becomes irrelevant since "Enclave Master" doesn't get its own spellcasting progression, instead simply getting +1 to existing spellcasting class at every level.

I was assuming that spells from the class list would be available - there are FR PRCs that add spells (eg: Hathran)

[wilphe]

But I do agree that you could be a member of the organization of Red Wizards without levels in the Red Wizard prestige class. Red Wizards take apprentices for example, and a Red Wizard apprentice would still be a member of the organization even if they weren't yet high enough level to take levels in the Red Wizard PrC. You probably couldn't become a Zulkir, but I doubt they'd kick you out for not (over)specializing with the Prestige Class.

I dunno if the tats are optional, though. If you aren't contributing to your masters circle magic, they might actually kick you out.

As per fluff if you don't have levels in Red Wizard you are an Apprentice but still part of the organisation

As per crunch Tatoo Focus is a Regional Feat so you can only take it at First level