The dreaded sniper

[cullynthedwarf]

So I am looking at a purely theoretical build for the best sniper type character. What race, what class/es would you take, what gear? This is my idea but of course its open to criticism

This is not just about being able to hit from the farthest away but being able to do so reliably.

Variant human, take meta-magic adept :: distant spell and empowered spell

L1 warlock 1: eldritch blast

L2 warlock 2: invocations :: Eld Spear and Agonizing Blast, ft 300 and 1d10+CHA

L3 cleric of war 1: War Priest

L4 cleric of war 2: channel divinity:: Guided strike +10 to hit

L5 sorcerer 1: 2 eldritch blasts, so either 2 targets or 1 target twice

L6 sorcerer 2: font of magic, now you can start using your cleric spell levels to fuel you meta magic use

L7 sorcerer 3: more meta magics, get subtle and quicken.

L8 sorcerer 4: take spell sniper feat:: 1200 ft range.

Here's where this will get controversial. Sorry not sorry/I regret nothing

L9 rogue 1: sneak attack. This will depend a lot on your DM as it does read ranged weapon, not ranged attack.

L10 rogue 2: cunning action,

L11 rogue 3: assassin :: + 2d6 and advantage on a creature that has not gone yet AND surprised creatures are critically hit. (I don't know about you but a hit from a quarter mile away would surprise me) this is also tier 3 so you EB gets a third bolt, so now your looking at 3d10 + 2d6 x 2 on a crit + CHA + 3/6 from 1200 ft away

L12 rogue 4: feat, alert or bolster the stats you need, Cha or Dex

L13 rogue 5: + 3d6 and uncanny dodge, hopefully you will never be in a position to need it...

L14 rogue 6: more expertise

L15 rogue 7: + 4d6 and evasion

L16 rogue 8: ASI for DEX or CHA or alert if you didn't get it before

L17 rogue 9: +5d6 and infiltration. Tier 4 play so your final bolt 4(2d10 + CHA) + 5d6x2 on a critical ((I assume you have a +3 rod of the pact keeper by now) and make further adjustments for quicken or twinned spell, if allowed)) all made at a + 13 to hit

L18 rogue 10: ASI Max out any thing you haven't yet, if you are add more to CON, you can never have too much CON

L19 rogue 11: +6d6 and reliable Talent:: can no longer roll less than a 10 on any skill you are proficient in

L20 rogue 12: final ASI, bolster any holes in your stats or take the super cheesey feat, lucky.

If your DM I'd not ok with spell sneak attack
L13 fighter 1: second wind and defense fighting style

L14 fighter 2: action surge

The rest plays out the same

The reason I did not suggest twin spell is it can not be used in conjunction with distant spell. Also some will argue that since Eldritch Blast CAN hit two people at Level 5, it is no longer able to be used with twinned spell.

So on a perfect round you are looking at (assuming it's allowed and you CHA is capped) 4 shots from quickened spell, 8 shots from your twinned normal attack and double damage from critical as this is a surprise attack from 600 ft away, and your first shot to hit deals an extra 6d6 x2 in sneak dam.

Let me be clear here, this is an ambush character not a front line fighter. So many of what is suggested here is with that in mind.

[quindraco]

Any DM letting you just ignore the requirements for sneak attack deserves what they get. If you can sneak attack with eldritch blast you might as well either sneak attack with a glaive or apply sharpshooter to eldritch blast - all three are equally illegal.

[Naanomi]

Half elf for Elven Accuracy recommended

[Gurgeh]

Beginning at 1st level, you know how to strike subtly and exploit a foe's distraction. Once per turn, you can deal an extra 1d6 damage to one creature you hit with an attack if you have advantage on the attack roll. The attack must use a finesse or a ranged weapon.
A spell is not a finesse or a ranged weapon, so no. No sneak attack with spells.

[Greywander]

I posted an eldritch sniper (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?633113-Revisiting-the-eldritch-sniper-concept) concept previously. The basic build is Genielock 7/Dragon sorc 6/Assassin rogue 3 (which leaves you a few levels to play around with). Genielock adds either fire or cold damage to one beam equal to your proficiency bonus (so +6 at 17th+ level). Since EB (and any other attack you make, weapon or spell) now deals fire/cold damage, it can trigger the Dragon sorc's Elemental Affinity, adding your CHA mod to the damage. This means one of your EB beams is dealing +11 extra damage, which roughly doubles the damage of that beam (assuming you already had Agonizing Blast). And the nice thing is that if your first beam misses, the bonus damage can still be applied to the next beam; you only need to hit once to apply all the bonus damage, and it's very likely that you'll hit at least once every round (so it kind of works like a Sneak Attack). Assassin is mostly just for expertise, Cunning Action, and autocrit against surprised targets.

As for extending your range, Spell Sniper and Eldritch Spear are the bare essentials, getting us to a default range of 600 feet. Distant Spell metamagic doubles our range. There's also an optional rule in Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron where if you wield a spell focus in two hands, you can boost the range of your cantrips by 50%. That rule didn't make it into Rising from the Last War, so YMMV on whether your DM allows it or not; it's probably best not to assume. But if allowed, we can boost our range to 900/1800 feet, depending on whether we use Distant Spell or not.

It's basically a half caster archer gish. If you think of it that way, some of the suboptimal choices (like splitting between two full caster classes) don't seem so bad. Really, it's just leveraging EB cheese to make a suboptimal build serviceable.


L9 rogue 1: sneak attack. This will depend a lot on your DM as it does read ranged weapon, not ranged attack.
Sneak Attack doesn't work with spells, sadly. It's probably for the best, though, as magic is generally pretty strong already; let the martials have their toys. Although, given that EB is a ranged option, it's not a bad idea to grab Booming Blade or Green-Flame Blade for melee, which would benefit from Sneak Attack.


The reason I did not suggest twin spell is it can not be used in conjunction with distant spell. Also some will argue that since Eldritch Blast CAN hit two people at Level 5, it is no longer able to be used with twinned spell.
Correct, everything I've seen says EB is not eligible to be Twinned after 5th level. And really, EB is strong enough already. Do keep in mind you'd only ever use Distant Spell if the target was that far away from you, which will be rare, so do consider grabbing another metamagic to use instead if the target is close enough. Also, don't forget you can use Distant Spell on other spells (especially touch spells), not just EB. I expect that Distant Spell will see a lot more use for non-EB spells, simply because EB doesn't need it most of the time.


Let me be clear here, this is an ambush character not a front line fighter. So many of what is suggested here is with that in mind.
Same with my build, although mine still looks pretty good at mid to short ranges. And with Cunning Action, getting stuck in melee should rarely be an issue. You can set up behind some cover and BA Hide for days to get advantage on one of your beams every round. Damage output is moderately high, you can offer some control with Repelling Blast, and you're ideally suited for picking off back-line enemies like archers or mages. Lastly, any spell that isn't EB is only really usable at mid to short ranges, so you can also bring those to bear. You might be specialized for long range, but you're no slouch up close.

[Naanomi]

The basic build is Genielock 7/Dragon sorc 6/Assassin rogue 3 (which leaves you a few levels to play around with).
Fighter (2) gives you Action Surge for another blast if you want... which you can combine with Quicken for another volley if they get too close.

[Toadkiller]

This idea comes up fairly often. Lots of suggestions in earlier threads.

[JackPhoenix]

Besides the problems, you're better off with a flight-capable race instead of a human. Easier to get a good line of sight that way, and you've got enough range to avoid counterattacks. With Repelling Blast, you don't have to worry much about flying enemies either.

[cullynthedwarf]

Correct, everything I've seen says EB is not eligible to be Twinned after 5th level. And really, EB is strong enough already. Do keep in mind you'd only ever use Distant Spell if the target was that far away from you, which will be rare, so do consider grabbing another metamagic to use instead if the target is close enough. Also, don't forget you can use Distant Spell on other spells (especially touch spells), not just EB. I expect that Distant Spell will see a lot more use for non-EB spells, simply because EB doesn't need it most of the time.

As a DM I would allow it ONLY IF all the blasts were hitting the same target. Just because it CAN hit multiple things doesn't mean it has to. Just my opinion on it.


You are right, there are other thing you could pick up in this build, it's just amusing to me to think of 9 - 12 shots going out and nailing an elder dragon and taking most of HP in one round

[Kane0]

Kinda stupid build that i'm fond of:

EK 7: Fighting style, Action surge, cantrip + attack combo
Genie Warlock 2: EB, Agonising blast + Elemental EB
Assassin 3: Expertise, Cunning Action, Crits Sneak attack for longbow

Spell Sniper and Sharpshooter feats, piercer and/or crusher is also neat if you want.
Throw the last 8 levels anywhere you like, i prefer more rogue to stack up the Sneak Attack but you can go Sorc for more spells, metamagic and dragon syncs another +Cha to EB damage with the right Genie

But if your DM is allowing SA with EB then theres no need to jump through all these hoops, though maybe theyre open to arcane archer or battlemaster adding their bonuses to your EB while you're at it

[JackPhoenix]

As a DM I would allow it ONLY IF all the blasts were hitting the same target. Just because it CAN hit multiple things doesn't mean it has to. Just my opinion on it.

Interestingly, Twinned explicitly states the capacity for targetting multiple creatures is enough. It doesn't matter if you don't target multiple creatures, it matters if you CAN: "To be eligible, a spell must be incapable of targeting more than one creature at the spell's current level. For example, magic missile and scorching ray aren't eligible, but ray of frost and chromatic orb are."

[Greywander]

Interestingly, Twinned explicitly states the capacity for targetting multiple creatures is enough. It doesn't matter if you don't target multiple creatures, it matters if you CAN: "To be eligible, a spell must be incapable of targeting more than one creature at the spell's current level. For example, magic missile and scorching ray aren't eligible, but ray of frost and chromatic orb are."
By contrast, I believe the wording in Warcaster only requires that the spell have a single target, so EB would be fine as long as you direct all beams toward the same target. It's interesting how two different effects that at first sound similar can end up working differently. You'd think they'd use consistent wording to make it clear when certain things are meant to work the same way, but they don't. I'm not entirely convinced that "weapon attack" and "attack with a weapon" weren't always meant to be synonymous, and suspect perhaps we've drawn a distinction where there wasn't originally meant to be one. There's a lot of other examples of things that are worded similarly but not exactly the same, and end up working differently as a result.

[kazaryu]

The reason I did not suggest twin spell is it can not be used in conjunction with distant spell. Also some will argue that since Eldritch Blast CAN hit two people at Level 5, it is no longer able to be used with twinned spell.


'SOME' won't argue. the rules explicitly spell out that it doesn't work. the rules for twinning literally use scorching ray and magic missile as examples of spells that can't be twinned because they're capable of targeting more than one person.

[Talionis]

I will say this Barbarian 6 allows for no limit to the length of your vision and to my knowledge you may need that type of distance vision to target at these distances.

[Person_Man]

I can't remember, was Crossbow Expert nerfed in errata? Because I thought Crossbow Expert + Sharpshooter was the default dps king for mundane ranged attacks? (And then Hexblade Warlock or Battlemaster Fighter or something to negate the to-hit penalty).

Also, I've always thought that its a shame that sniper builds are almost always theoretical like this, and not something that sees much actual gameplay. When you play D&D, how often are you fighting outside, compared to a claustrophobic dungeon or castle or whatever where sniper tactics aren't viable? And how often do you play alone or with 1-2ish other players willing to go along with and build their characters around hit-and-run tactics, as opposed to "OK Bob wants to shoot arrows from 300 feet away again while my Paladin risks his life on the front line - again - whatever." And are there other players with full casters at mid-high levels, which can can turn certain encounters into "whoever wins initiative wins rocket tag"? Because I've always wanted to play a "special forces" type character in a small party that all utilized stealth, ranged attacks, illusions, traps, etc. to take enemies down in cat and mouse ranged battles. I love the idea. But its never actually materialized as a viable thing that happens in D&D outside of a few isolated battles.

[meandean]

Right... it's interesting to try to figure out what the maximum attack distance is in a (extremely, extremely, extremely large) white room... but actually building a character based on that would be way more a meme than anything else. I'd find it hilarious to argue with a Rogue about whether they should get sneak attack on Eldritch Blast from 1200 feet away. Not only because of course not, but also because you can easily take Sharpshooter and indisputably get sneak attack on your arrows from 600 feet away, and even that will probably never come up!

[Greywander]

A couple points I think are worth mentioning:

First of all, merely having the ability to do something is going to increase the likelihood that such a thing comes up. If you have the ability to shoot from 1200 feet away, then you're more likely to make plans that implement such long range shots as a strategy. Also, the DM might be more likely to include scenarios where being able to shoot from such a long range is useful. If you don't have this ability, then you won't be looking for opportunities to use it.

Second, although it might seem like this requires a big investment, that's not a complete picture. Spell Sniper gives you an extra cantrip and lets your spell attacks ignore cover. There's probably a lot more useful feats out there, but those are still helpful. Distant Spell can be used for any of your other spells, and especially touch-range spells, so you're not just using it to maximize your EB range. In fact, Distant Spell will probably see the majority of its use with non-EB spells. The only truly superfluous feature is Eldritch Spear, which does nothing except extend the range of EB.

Thirdly, there's the disparities between weak and strong features, and between commonly used and rarely used features. The stronger a feature is, the harder it has to be to get. The more niche a feature is, the easier it can be to get. Features that are both strong and commonly used need to be much harder to get, so likely a high level class feature, while a feature that is weaker and rarely used might end up as a small part of a larger feat. My point is, you can optimize to do something niche and it often doesn't end up costing you much in terms of build resources. For example, a Rune Knight optimized for grappling is also still a very competent fighter, so any time grappling can't be used it's not as though they're any less effective than a generic fighter. A sorlock optimized for long range shots still has all the same tricks that a generic sorlock has should they find themselves in close range.

[Naanomi]

Second, although it might seem like this requires a big investment, that's not a complete picture. Spell Sniper gives you an extra cantrip and lets your spell attacks ignore cover. There's probably a lot more useful feats out there, but those are still helpful. Distant Spell can be used for any of your other spells, and especially touch-range spells, so you're not just using it to maximize your EB range. In fact, Distant Spell will probably see the majority of its use with non-EB spells. The only truly superfluous feature is Eldritch Spear, which does nothing except extend the range of EB.
Yeah, that Fighter/Rogue/Warlock/Sorcerer is still a well armored stealth master who can kite with cunning action; or quicken more eldritch blasts to nova damage out when necessary... and likely have a good handful of utility spells

[Dalinar]

So a sniper needs a few things:


Range, and lots of it
Damage at range, and lots of that too
Ability to survive close range combat and/or allies willing to keep them safe so they can keep shooting
Ability to spot potential targets at long range


I almost want to go Hexblade/Evoker for this combination. LudicSavant has gone on at length about how good that combination can be, but just for the sake of this particular character concept, let's look at a Tortle Hexblade 3/Evoker 5 with Spell Sniper as their sole feat, Pact of the Chain, and the Eldritch Spear and Voice of the Chain Master invocations.


Range: 600ft Eldritch Blasts. 300ft Sculpted Fireballs. 240ft Scorching Rays. 180ft Hex.
T2 cantrips, Hexblade's Curse, Hex, and various Evocation spells.
17 AC forever, with Shield and Absorb Elements both available to increase mitigation. Tack on something like Blur if you're worried. Unfortunately your mobility will be a bit questionable as a Tortle.
With Pact of the Chain/VOTCM, your familiar can be an invisible imp which spots for you, which will be a great help since your Perception is probably lacking.

At lower levels, you probably just do standard Hexblade things and eventually supplement them with the occasional Scultped AOE spell like Thunderwave or Shatter. Unfortunately you can't squeeze in Agonizing Blast unless you get that fifth Warlock level (or grab it through Eldritch Adept I guess, but that seems like overkill).

Statwise you're pretty MAD, so you'll lack WIS DEX and STR. DEX dump is why I took Tortle compared to relying on other forms of AC. STR dump is fairly common for anyone that isn't actively using the stat. WIS dump hurts. Maybe invest in Res:WIS?

Anyway that's my off-the-cuff take on things. If we *really* wanna pour everything we've got into max range Eldritch Blasting, that's a little different, but it makes sense to have different tools for different situations rather than going one-trick on Eldritch Spear/Spell Sniper/possibly Distant Spell/possibly Trickery Cleric CD for up to 1320ft remote blasting.