Help me made Frog from Chrono Trigger

[jaappleton]

If you're unfamiliar, shame on you. Seriously. The game is an absolute classic. Darn whippersnappers with your Fortnite.

So, a rough and brief history: Glenn was a squire suffering from a crippling lack of self confidence, learning under his mentor Cyrus, who used a legendary sword. When his mentor is killed, Glenn is cursed, becoming an anthropomorphic frog creature, and eventually gains his confidence and the legendary sword on his quest for vengeance.

What can Frog do?
Some decent healing, offensive oriented Water spells, has a high critical hit chance, and a master swordsman.

Lets tackle these one at a time.

High crit chance: This means Advantage and an expanded crit range.
Offensive oriented Water spells: Possibly the most difficult part of this. Things like Tidal Wave, Watery Sphere and Maelstrom are all on the Druid list, and fairly hard to find elsewhere.
Healing: This can be achieved very easily.
Master swordsman: Extra attack is an absolute must

Off the bat, I want to say Paladin. But the water spells are a problem. Critical Role created the Oath of the Open Sea, but that's much more pirate / sailor oriented and isn't a good fit.

Fighter / Druid? Makes sense, as far as abilities and spells, but Wild Shape is incredibly out of place here.

My DM would very much be amenable to some light homebrew, possibly taking an existing Paladin Oath and swapping out the bonus spells. That's possibly the easiest route to go.

For race, I think UA Rabbitfolk fits the best. Just reskin it to a frog. You get to jump long distances, you can be small, whats not to love? Far better a fit than Grung, IMO.

I'm very much interested in any ideas the Playground has to offer me. What do you think?

[Abracadangit]

I think you've already locked onto the best way to go about it, in general terms. Don't know I can top that.

BUT. I have an absurdly impractical and very silly way to simulate a Frog Tech from the game, that's 100% legal.

1) Go Eldritch Knight, get to level 7 for War Magic.
2) Take the Magic Initiate feat for Druid cantrips, make sure one of them is Thorn Whip.
3) Pull in enemies with Thorn Whip, then bonus action attack them with your sword.

Slurp Slash! Doesn't overlap with your build at all and isn't terribly practical. But it's maximum Frog.

You might consider taking Magic Initiate just for Thorn Whip anyway, even if you stick with Paladin. It'll be fun to have something you can fluff as a tongue attack that can pull enemies closer.

[Gignere]

I think you've already locked onto the best way to go about it, in general terms. Don't know I can top that.

BUT. I have an absurdly impractical and very silly way to simulate a Frog Tech from the game, that's 100% legal.

1) Go Eldritch Knight, get to level 7 for War Magic.
2) Take the Magic Initiate feat for Druid cantrips, make sure one of them is Thorn Whip.
3) Pull in enemies with Thorn Whip, then bonus action attack them with your sword.

Slurp Slash! Doesn't overlap with your build at all and isn't terribly practical. But it's maximum Frog.

You might consider taking Magic Initiate just for Thorn Whip anyway, even if you stick with Paladin. It'll be fun to have something you can fluff as a tongue attack that can pull enemies closer.

You don’t even need magic initiate because you can grab lightning lure with just EK.

This can also be done with Bladesinger level 6. This way you don’t need to attack with a secondary stat wisdom.

Maybe Bladesinger 6 and dip a level or 2 of cleric for the healing spells. You can get some icy, watery spells on the wizard list.

[Evaar]

Well. One way to go would be Fathomless Warlock and just take Pact of the Blade. You'll be a little MAD, but it should mostly work fine. You're getting a bunch of water-themed spells, plus water breathing and cold resistance. And there's the Otherworldly Leap invocation to cast Jump on yourself for free; it's of dubious utility but pretty flavorful for what you want.

You could also *sigh* go Four Elements Monk. That won't get you super powerful water magic, but it does offer a few things - including Water Whip, which mimics Frog's tongue attacks quite well. You'll probably want to dip 1 or 2 levels of Fighter (or 3 and get Champion for the expanded critical range) so you can gain proficiency with all martial weapons. Once you're proficient with a Longsword, the Dedicated Weapon feature from Tasha's will allow you to use it as a Monk Weapon while wielding it in 2 hands. I'm not claiming this character will be good, but it does check several of your boxes. I'd probably start Monk and use a short sword through 5, then dip Fighter starting at 6. It might work better to take 1 level of Fighter earlier than that so you can upgrade your damage die to the versatile longsword at low levels.

[jaappleton]

Well. One way to go would be Fathomless Warlock and just take Pact of the Blade. You'll be a little MAD, but it should mostly work fine. You're getting a bunch of water-themed spells, plus water breathing and cold resistance. And there's the Otherworldly Leap invocation to cast Jump on yourself for free; it's of dubious utility but pretty flavorful for what you want.

You could also *sigh* go Four Elements Monk. That won't get you super powerful water magic, but it does offer a few things. You'll probably want to dip 1 or 2 levels of Fighter (or 3 and get Champion for the expanded critical range) so you can gain proficiency with all martial weapons. Once you're proficient with a Longsword, the Dedicated Weapon feature from Tasha's will allow you to use it as a Monk Weapon while wielding it in 2 hands. I'm not claiming this character will be good, but it does check several of your boxes.

Thematically, I love Fathemless for this. I thought about centering the tentacle on the character, and have it be Frog's tongue lashing out.

But it needs a lot. Can't heal, so I'd have to MC. Can't even use Medium Armor. It'd be very MAD, for sure.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Crazy, off the wall suggestion.

Fighter (Samurai) 3/Monk (4 Elements) X, and see if you can get Water Whip back down to a BA.

Fighting Spirit and Water Whip don't actually synergize (as they're both potentially BAs and Water Whip is a save, not an attack), so that's actually kinda fine? Water Whip was actually good back when it was a BA, and it's really a relatively minor houserule.

EDIT: Relatively non-MAD, as Fighter only requires Dex 13 (which you'll want anyways to be able to multiclass Monk) and if you feel like more Fighter levels, you do actually gain some benefit from a good Wisdom score.

[sithlordnergal]

I actually think Fighter/Druid is a lot more thematically appropriate then you might think. Go Human or Human Variant with your race, and use Wild Shape to turn into stronger and stronger Frogs.

[Evaar]

Thematically, I love Fathemless for this. I thought about centering the tentacle on the character, and have it be Frog's tongue lashing out.

But it needs a lot. Can't heal, so I'd have to MC. Can't even use Medium Armor. It'd be very MAD, for sure.

I'd probably not boost Charisma all the way and prioritize physical stats.

A Cleric dip could fix your concerns about healing and armor. But then you need 13 Wisdom, too. I'd probably make that an Arcana dip and pick some water/support-themed bonus cantrips that aren't reliant on a casting stat.

A Paladin dip is more friendly to your stats, but you get less out of that 1st level; you'd probably need 2. But then you're a Lockadin so.. it can't be that bad. Fighting Style, Smite, low level Paladin spells, Lay on Hands, Warlock slots to use on Smites, etc etc. And Medium Armor/Shield proficiency (though if I recall, Frog didn't use a shield... in fact I don't think anyone in Crono Trigger uses a shield).

If your DM believes in attaching Charisma based attacks to Pact of the Blade instead of Hexblade, that solves the MAD problem. But then you're playing Frog as a high Charisma character which... doesn't feel right. His whole arc is about lacking confidence in himself. But I don't know how much you're looking to duplicate his personality.

[jaappleton]

And Medium Armor/Shield proficiency (though if I recall, Frog didn't use a shield... in fact I don't think anyone in Crono Trigger uses a shield.

It’s a strange thing.

In different pieces of promotional artwork he’s seen both wielding a shield and utilizing the Masamune with two hands.

So both Sword and board and two handed are entirely valid, I’d say.

[Abracadangit]

Something else to consider - if you're okay with refluffing/reflavoring in general, then you can kinda go wherever you want with his water-based spells and attacks, because there's no such thing as "water element" damage in D&D. Water-based attacks tend to do bludgeoning damage, and for some classes, cold damage is the thematic equivalent (like the marid Genielock patron).

So if you went Oath of the Ancients, you could get Ice Storm and flavor that as being crushed by a giant frog, ha ha. Or go Blessed Warrior (from Tasha's), take Sacred Flame, and flavor that as water if you want. Point is, sky's the limit for his water attacks if you're willing to bend the flavoring a little. But I sympathize if you want to keep things more genuinely water-based.

[Evaar]

It’s a strange thing.

In different pieces of promotional artwork he’s seen both wielding a shield and utilizing the Masamune with two hands.

So both Sword and board and two handed are entirely valid, I’d say.

Fair enough, take your pick.

I think that's your best bet though. Fathomless Warlock, Pact of the Blade, with a 2 level Paladin dip. The only thing you lack is the expanded crit range, but I don't see that as being extremely core to the character's identity. You may feel otherwise. If you really want it, you could instead go with something like Slasher or Piercer.

Frog's bond with the Masamune is well represented by a Pact Weapon as well, I'd say. It's not just a powerful weapon, it's a powerful weapon in his hands because he earned it.

[Man_Over_Game]

I think Ranger/Druid would work a bit better for this than Fighter/Druid.

What Ranger/Druid allows you to do is spend your spell slots on attack augments, stuff that can be used in your usual martial combat ways. This means you can easily afford a few levels into Circle of the Land : Coast and get some of those water spells you've been interested in.

Hell, you can do it impeccably well with just pure Ranger:

Grab the fighting style from Tasha's that gets you druid cantrips for Thorn Whip (literally Slurp Slash) and Shape Water (obvious reasons), Zephyr Strike and Jump for his Leap Slash, Healing Spirit, Fog Cloud (for water), maybe pick up Piercer (which works with Thorn Whip) and use a rapier or something . Subclass could either be Hunter (mostly martial prowess, as Frog is no mage), or Monster Slayer (his mission was literally to destroy their universe's equivalent of Strahd before getting cursed into a frog).

It has the unique benefit of having every one of your features tie into your character without much reskinning (as long as you're using the Tasha's updates)

[Wraith]

I'm going to suggest something a little different, just for the fun of having some variety: Valour Bard

You get Medium Armour, Martial Weapons and Shields. You also get Extra Attack to be an expert swordsman, and a little later you get Magical Secrets which lets you pick up some key healing spells or whatever 'water' themed magic you might want to try out from whatever source you like. Seems to tick a lot of boxes.

As for race, Triton has good fighter-y stats - STR and CON - they can breath underwater and have a swimming speed (like a frog!) and at level 5 they get Wall of Water as an innate spell, which is one of the few spells that specifically has "water" in the title.

Simic Hybrid could also work, if you're allowed to use Ravnica races. Take the Underwater Adaptation and the Acid Spit enhancements and you're most of the way there.

Or lastly, you could play as ... a Grung. Because Grung. :smalltongue:

[J-H]

You actually had Frog cast his water spells? His Mpow was always low, so I never found them very effective. He's there to chop and hack and slash. As a master swordsman, I'd go Champion/Samurai/Cavalier. Paladin is also on the table.

If you really, really want spells, take Eldritch Knight and get permission to swap out one of the spell schools for another. My permanent houserule is that EKs can swap out Evocation for one other school.

[Man_Over_Game]

You actually had Frog cast his water spells? His Mpow was always low, so I never found them very effective. He's there to chop and hack and slash. As a master swordsman, I'd go Champion/Samurai/Cavalier. Paladin is also on the table.

If you really, really want spells, take Eldritch Knight and get permission to swap out one of the spell schools for another. My permanent houserule is that EKs can swap out Evocation for one other school.

I've always been a big proponent of having EKs use Transmutation and Conjuration. Buffs, teleports, weapons, and physical obstructions, all stuff that is a lot more interesting than the one Abjuration spell that's worth mentioning and....I guess more spell slots for Shield.

Seriously, I built an EK for a difficult 1-shot, I don't think I ever used my spell slots for anything other than Shield. Anything else was just flashy but far less useful.

[jaappleton]

I've always been a big proponent of having EKs use Transmutation and Conjuration. Buffs, teleports, weapons, and physical obstructions, all stuff that is a lot more interesting than the one Abjuration spell that's worth mentioning and....I guess more spell slots for Shield.

Seriously, I built an EK for a difficult 1-shot, I don't think I ever needed my spell slots for anything other than Shield.

Absorb Elements?

[Man_Over_Game]

Absorb Elements?

Absorb Elements isn't bad, it's just a lot more circumstantial.

You're probably going to get attacked like 75% of the time, maybe set on fire once in the fight. Most elemental damage stuff will still deal half damage on a save, so something that'd do like 16 damage ends up either blocking 4 or 8 from Absorb Elements (depending on your save), but lets average that to 6. That was a single action that you blocked 6 damage from, and got a bonus 3.5 damage on your next attack. Total, we'll say that Absorb Elements was worth about 10 damage total.

Shield, on the other hand, is a guaranteed block against the incoming attack, when most enemies are hitting you for 8 or so damage. You're also probably going to block the upcoming two attacks without issue either. Even if your chance of being hit went from 50% to 25%, that's still reducing the amount of damage you take on subsequent attacks by half. 8 + (8 + 8)/2 = 16 damage value total.

Given, this is all pretty broad stuff, but Absorb Elements would need to block a decent amount of damage for it to outpace Shield, and even then you'll use Shield in every fight where not every fight has a serious elemental damage source you should worry about.

Even if you had both, and you had a good reason to use Absorb Elements, you'd still be caught trying to decide whether to save that spell slot for another casting of Shield. Shield is just too damn good for folks who like to get attacked. If there were fewer attacks and more spells being thrown around, then I'd be more inclined to agree with you.

[Gignere]

Absorb Elements isn't bad, it's just a lot more circumstantial.

You're probably going to get attacked like 75% of the time, maybe set on fire once in the fight. Most elemental damage stuff will still deal half damage on a save, so something that'd do like 16 damage ends up either blocking 4 or 8 from Absorb Elements (depending on your save), but lets average that to 6. That was a single action that you blocked 6 damage from, and got a bonus 3.5 damage on your next attack. Total, we'll say that Absorb Elements was worth about 10 damage total.

Shield, on the other hand, is a guaranteed block against the incoming attack, when most enemies are hitting you for 8 or so damage. You're also probably going to block the upcoming two attacks without issue either. Even if your chance of being hit went from 50% to 25%, that's still reducing the amount of damage you take on subsequent attacks by half. 8 + (8 + 8)/2 = 16 damage value total.

Given, this is all pretty broad stuff, but Absorb Elements would need to block a decent amount of damage for it to outpace Shield, and even then you'll use Shield in every fight where not every fight has a serious elemental damage source you should worry about.

Even if you had both, and you had a good reason to use Absorb Elements, you'd still be caught trying to decide whether to save that spell slot for another casting of Shield. Shield is just too damn good for folks who like to get attacked. If there were fewer attacks and more spells being thrown around, then I'd be more inclined to agree with you.

You use AE a little more at higher levels where fireballs, dragon breaths, etc. becomes more common place.

At lower levels up through T2 shield is way better than AE, generally speaking.

[Sception]

I'm going to suggest something a little different, just for the fun of having some variety: Valour Bard

I'd echo the bard suggestion. Swords, or maybe Valor, or maybe multiclassed with paladin. Gets you some swording & some healing & magical secrets to pick up some offensive druid water spells.

[Libertad]

Depending on how open you are to 3rd party, the Spheres system can be a good means of a more open-ended build system for a variety of martial and magic types. (http://spheres5e.wikidot.com/)

In the Spheres system he'd most likely be a Mageknight, as it grants Extra Attack along with both martial and magical spheres. For magical spheres he'll likely have access to Destruction and Nature, the latter with the Water geomancy package. Manipulate Nature talent can let you create an AoE wave. Life sphere can grant healing.

For martial spheres Athletics can be good in representing his ability to jump like well, a frog, particularly the Legendary talents such as Air Stunt. To increase one's chances of critical hits, the Fencing sphere is good at granting advantage and reroll of dice via Fatal Thrust. Fatal Opening increases the threat range of feints from 19 to 20, while Expert Feint lets you feint as a bonus action. It's not "feint" in the 3.5 way, but using the Help action on an ally's attack roll or your own attack roll, the latter of which the Fencing sphere lets you do.

Stuff like the Dual and Triple Techs may be harder to emulate on account of the variety there are and the requirements of an additional PC. They may be best represented as an ally readying an action to go on your turn where you both do something at once. Frog Squash may be represented as a Destruction with an appropriate AoE Blast Shape, flavored as taking the form of an illusory/summoned monster.

[Dalinar]

High crit chance: This means Advantage and an expanded crit range.
Offensive oriented Water spells: Possibly the most difficult part of this. Things like Tidal Wave, Watery Sphere and Maelstrom are all on the Druid list, and fairly hard to find elsewhere.
Healing: This can be achieved very easily.
Master swordsman: Extra attack is an absolute must


I don't know if it's as good as some other suggestions in this thread but:

Reskin a Swarmkeeper Ranger as using his tongue/water-magic for the same effects. Go Druidic Warrior for the Thorn Whip cantrip. (The combined 25ft pull is a strong stand-in for Slurp Slash!) Healing/Extra Attack come with the package. Get your advantage from Faerie Fire perhaps? And/or dip three levels of Fighter for Champion or Samurai.

Only thing is you'd be using a finesse weapon instead of a more thematic greatsword, although you could swing it (pun intended) if you don't mind being MAD.

[jaappleton]

I don't know if it's as good as some other suggestions in this thread but:

Reskin a Swarmkeeper Ranger as using his tongue/water-magic for the same effects. Go Druidic Warrior for the Thorn Whip cantrip. (The combined 25ft pull is a strong stand-in for Slurp Slash!) Healing/Extra Attack come with the package. Get your advantage from Faerie Fire perhaps? And/or dip three levels of Fighter for Champion or Samurai.

Only thing is you'd be using a finesse weapon instead of a more thematic greatsword, although you could swing it (pun intended) if you don't mind being MAD.

Why would this be utilizing a finesse weapon? I could totally see the Masamune as a Longsword.

This suggestion is pretty solid overall. Although not incredibly true to character, the idea of utilizing Canny to gain expertise in Athletics combined with Shield Master to generate Advantage is quite appealing.

[ImproperJustice]

I don’t have anything to contribute beyond my heartfelt emotional support that this is one of the most noble endeavors in D&D.

And I am taking notes….

[jaappleton]

I don’t have anything to contribute beyond my heartfelt emotional support that this is one of the most noble endeavors in D&D.

And I am taking notes….

I can think of a lot of ways to do it. But they all require DM cooperation.

Example:

Masamune is a Moonblade, you have to work it out with the DM before. And as you level up, as you journey through your endeavors, the sword becomes more powerful. Eventually it gets an expanded crit range, just as the Hero’s Medal did when paired with it, along with going from a mundane sword to eventually +3. Of course you’d need to remove the Elven restriction. But how the Moonblade works, it’s an excellent basis for the Masamune.

Eldritch Knight works incredibly well, but IMO you swap the spell list from Wizard to Druid and from INT to WIS. Thorn Whip to an attack at level 7 is an excellent way to utilize Slurp Slash, as a few have stated, and gives you access to some emergency healing.

But all that is home brewing and heavy DM cooperation.

I still think Devotion or Vengeance with a swapped out spell list with be easy to do, but again…. homebrew.

For any OFFICIAL way to do it, strictly with RAW material, I think Ranger is really good. Probably the closest. Frog absolutely isn’t a full caster, but…. BUT…. I can see Swords Bard. He’s a master swordsman, and Swords use of inspiration dice represents that amazingly well. Combined with Additional Magical Secrets to nab Holy Weapon would do wonders.