Another try at a Cantrip Master feat - Cantrip Metamagic?

[Greywander]

I've tried this before (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?610361-Making-a-Cantrip-Master-feat) and ended up with something both too busy and too powerful. It's been a while, so let's take another stab at the idea. What we want is a character who can perform competently using nothing but cantrips. So probably not unlike EB with the relevant invocations.

Okay, so while I was writing this post, I came up with a much better idea than I had originally. But at the same time, I think it's worth exploring some of the ideas in the original post. So I've put it under a spoiler.

New and improved version:


Cantrip Master
Prerequisite: The ability to cast at least one cantrip

You have a pool of cantrip mastery points equal to your level. You can spend these points in a number of ways, and regain 1 point at the start of each of your turns. By spending points from your cantrip mastery pool, you can create the following effects:

Deft Cantrip. When you cast a cantrip, you can spend 1 point to perform somatic components with a hand holding an item or wielding a weapon or shield.
Distant Cantrip. When you cast a cantrip that has a range of 5 feet or greater, you may spend 1 point to increase that cantrip's range by 50%.
Distracted Cantrip. When you cast a cantrip that requires concentration, you can spend 5 points to forgo the need to concentrate on that cantrip.
Empowered Cantrip. Once on each of your turns, when you roll damage for a cantrip, you can spend 1 point to increase that damage by an amount equal to your proficiency bonus.
Extended Cantrip. When you cast a cantrip with a duration of 1 minute or longer, you can spend 3 points to double its duration, to a maximum of 24 hours.
Maximized Cantrip. When you deal damage with a cantrip, you can spend 8 points to increase that damage by an additional 4d12.
Potent Cantrip. When a creature succeeds on a saving throw against one of your cantrips, you can spend 3 points to cause the creature to take half the cantrip's damage (if any) but suffer no additional effects from the cantrip.
Precise Cantrip. When you roll a 19 on an attack roll for one of your cantrips, you can spend 2 points to turn that attack into a critical hit.
Quickened Cantrip. When you cast a damaging cantrip that has a casting time of 1 action, you can spend 5 points to change the casting time to 1 bonus action. When you cast a non-damaging cantrip that has a casting time of 1 action, you can spend 2 points to change the casting time to 1 bonus action.


So here's my logic: Cantrips are an at-will ability, so it makes sense that a Cantrip Master wouldn't want to rely on any resource that recharges on a rest. But there's a lot of cool things we could do with cantrips that would just be broken if you could spam them every turn. Providing a pool of points to spend that recharges quickly strikes a balance, allowing you to spend those points freely as needed, but preventing you from outright spamming. (Honestly, I wish a mechanic like this was used more.)

Note that despite the obvious metamagic inspiration, nothing prevents you from using multiple effects on a single cantrip, or stacking it with metamagic (if you have it).

Since you get 1 point back at the start of each turn, you'll always be able to use a Deft, Distant, or Empowered Cantrip every turn, which can help define a playstyle. At higher levels, you should be able to use some of the costlier options every round if you pace yourself. Or you can dump a bunch of points to nuke in the hopes of getting the upper hand early.

Original post below the spoiler.
How about this?

Once on each of your turns, you may add your proficiency bonus to the damage roll of one of your cantrips.
You can ignore class restrictions on cantrips, resulting in the following effects: Any effect that applies to the spells of one class can be applied to any cantrip, you aren't restricted by spell lists when learning a new cantrip, and any spellcasting focus and spellcasting ability that you use for at least one spell can be used for any of your cantrips.
You learn one cantrip of your choice. Whenever you finish a long rest, you may replace one cantrip you know with a different one.
Instead of casting a cantrip at full power, you can split that cantrip's effectiveness into multiple effects, and substitute the effect of a different cantrip you know instead. For example, an 11th level character could choose to cast one Fire Bolt for 3d10 damage, or split the cantrip into one Fire Bolt for 2d10 damage and one Ray of Frost for 1d8 damage, or one Fire Bolt for 1d10 damage and two Rays of Frost for 1d8 damage each. All cantrip effects used this way must have a casting time of one action, and up to one cantrip effect can be a non-damaging cantrip (such as Minor Illusion or Prestidigitation). Treat the resulting effects as a single spell, rather than multiple spells.

I really like the idea of casting multiple cantrips, and if scaling is reduced then the overall damage output shouldn't change much. The intended benefit is being able to select multiple targets and get multiple rider effects. For example, you could pull one target toward you with Thorn Whip, slow a different target down with Ray of Frost, and impose disadvantage on an attack roll with Vicious Mockery, all with a single action, and with roughly the same overall damage as a normal cantrip. That said, this does have a couple of issues. First of all, the way the cleric's Potent Spellcasting is written, you'd apply the bonus damage to each "beam", similar to Agonizing Blast. Second, BB/GFB can be used to essentially make up to four weapon attacks, each with the rider effect for BB/GFB. Combine this with something like the paladin's Improved Divine Smite or other per-attack bonus, and you can get a paladin making four attacks adding Imp. Smite damage to each, plus the (unscaled) rider of BB or GFB.

The other thing I've tried as far as casting multiple cantrips, is to allow casting cantrips as a bonus action, but the effect is unscaled. So you could cast Fire Bolt as an action at full power, then throw out a Ray of Frost for only 1d8 damage. I'm not sure which is better. The EB-style "beam-splitting" above is more interesting, but also more prone to abuse.

Hmm, here's another idea I just had:

You have a pool of quick casting points equal to your level. By spending 5 points from this pool, you may cast a cantrip with a casting time of one action as a bonus action instead. You regain 1 point at the start of each of your turns.

This allows you basically quicken a cantrip every 5 turns, starting at 5th level, and at higher levels you can quicken a couple cantrips before needing to wait to recharge. It just seems to me that a cantrip master shouldn't be reliant on resources that require a rest to recharge, so this strikes a balance between an ability that is at-will and one that is limited in use. You can use it freely because the resources regenerate quickly, but it stops you from outright spamming it every turn. Maybe non-damaging cantrips should cost fewer points? Say, 2 points, so you can do it every two turns starting at 2nd level? Maybe you could spend points from this pool to apply other effects (likely borrowed from metamagic), such as extending the range-

Hold up, I'm going to rewrite this entire feature. One moment. Okay, new version is above the spoiler (and you probably already read it).

[Arkanist]

What we want is a character who can perform competently using nothing but cantrips.

If this is what you want to make, I don't think you'll be able to deliver on a feat that looks and feels in line with other feats in the system. Feats are just that - a feat, one thing you're good at or a special thing you can do. Metamagic Adept doesn't give you every option and a pool of per-turn, refreshing points to use it all the time - it lets you sometimes use two metamagic powers you pick.

That's not to say I think this isn't a workable idea. It's a very good idea. Rather, this reads to me as a class feature. Whether a base class or a subclass, I feel that this is designed to sustain a full character concept and would work better with the extra mechanical breathing room it gets from that place of heightened importance.

[BerzerkerUnit]

Given the relative power of Cantrips, here’s my take:

Cantrip Master
Prerequisite: must be able to cast a Cantrip
For a caster or dabbler that trains exhaustively with the simplest spells, greater power awaits. This feat provides the following benefits, you may only apply one benefit to a Cantrip each time you cast it.
-Your concentration on Cantrips cannot be broken unless you choose to stop concentrating.
-Cantrips which allow you to have a limited number of castings active at one time, such as Prestidigitation, have their limit raised to your spellcasting ability modifier
-if a Cantrip requires a target to make a saving throw to avoid its effects, the target has disadvantage on the save.
-when you roll one or more damage dice for a Cantrip you can choose one die and treat it as having rolled its maximum result.

4 bullets, two are ribbons, and two are free metamagic but only for Cantrips which are... kind of a waste of your action at later levels.

It’s probably a no brained for an EB warlock, but that’s already such a standard for performance this is sprinkles on the cone. Where I really like this is a low level Sorcerer/WizardArtificer which will feel more like a cannon despite having 2 or 3 spells a day.
That last bullet is a weaker version of my homebrew Elemental Adept.

[Geopol4r]

I agree with Arkanist. However, one thing I will note is that this seems like a variant. I would actually work it out as a Sorc subclass. Have that be an ability at level 6 or so(forgot the progression), and have maybe other abilities to get more cantrips, sacrifice 6th 7th 8th and 9th level spell slots to gain buffs to cantrips greater than just points, and maybe an intimidation feature to scare opponents with the idea that "That's just your cantrip". That last idea would be good against spellcasters. If they figure out what you're casting, they could be stunned or something. I dunno, seems like a subclass if you ask me.

[Greywander]

I get that this is probably too strong for a feat, but I do think I'm on the right track and just need to tune it right. (Though I will file this idea away possibly for a homebrew class. I've had a couple concepts designed around at-will spellcasting, so it should be well-suited there.)

For example, instead of a pool of points equal to your level, perhaps you have a pool of points equal to your proficiency bonus. Fewer points means less burst potential, although it also means point costs need to be reduced, and thus you can spam these abilities a bit more frequently. We could also do a set pool that doesn't change, but part of the motive for making your pool grow as you level is being able to gate certain features behind your level. For example, if we don't want to allow a cantrip to be quickened until 5th level or later, then we make it cost five points (if pool = level), or 3 points (if pool = proficiency bonus). At 20th level, you could quicken a cantrip four times if pool = level before running out, whereas if pool = proficiency bonus you could only quicken twice. The trade off is being able to quicken every 3 rounds vs. every 5 rounds.

The pool size isn't the only thing that can be tweaked. I do think there's wiggle room to change some of the effects, or reduce the overall number of effects. I like the idea of quickening a cantrip, particularly non-damage cantrips (hence why they're cheaper to quicken). Extending the range or duration, or removing the concentration requirement also give you some interesting ways to use them. The damage buff is important because otherwise cantrips that aren't EB are very lackluster in damage output.

I also think it's important that you be able to use more than one effect on the same casting. When you regenerate 1 point every turn, you'll never run out if you only use effects that only cost 1 point. These are basically free bonuses. But if you can apply more than one of these "free" effects, they are no longer free as the cost will eventually deplete your pool. For example, I made the basic damage boost only cost 1 point because I felt it really was something you should be able to use every single round. But instead of just giving it to you for free, you have to make the choice whether or not to use it, and if you're using a more costly effect, or combining several other effects, you might not be able to afford to also boost damage.

Let me take another stab at this and see if I can improve it somewhat.


Cantrip Master
Prerequisite: The ability to cast at least one cantrip

You have a pool of cantrip mastery points equal to your proficiency bonus. You can spend these points in a number of ways, and regain 1 point at the start of each of your turns. By spending points from your cantrip mastery pool, you can create the following effects:

Delayed Cantrip. When you cast a cantrip, you can spend 1 point to delay that cantrip from taking effect for up to three rounds. After the chosen number of rounds pass, the cantrip will take effect at the start of your turn.
Duplicitous Cantrip. When you cast a non-damaging cantrip, you may spend 1 point to create one additional effect. To qualify, the cantrip must require you to choose between at least two effects you can create with that cantrip.
Projected Cantrip. When you cast a cantrip, you may spend 1 point to treat the spell as being cast from a location you can see within 30 feet of you.
Distracted Cantrip. When you cast a cantrip that requires concentration, you can spend 3 points to forgo the need to concentrate on that cantrip.
Intense Cantrip. When you roll damage for a cantrip, you can spend any number of points to increase that damage. Each point you spend adds 1d8 additional damage.
Quickened Cantrip. When you cast a damaging cantrip that has a casting time of 1 action, you can spend 3 points to change the casting time to 1 bonus action. When you cast a non-damaging cantrip that has a casting time of 1 action, you can spend 1 point to change the casting time to 1 bonus action.


I tried to remove most of the effects that paralleled metamagic effects, except for quickened, and replace them with more unique and interesting effects. Many of these might not be very useful most of the time, but you could find creative and niche uses for them.

[BerzerkerUnit]

I get that this is probably too strong for a feat, but I do think I'm on the right track and just need to tune it right. (Though I will file this idea away possibly for a homebrew class. I've had a couple concepts designed around at-will spellcasting, so it should be well-suited there.)

For example, instead of a pool of points equal to your level, perhaps you have a pool of points equal to your proficiency bonus. Fewer points means less burst potential, although it also means point costs need to be reduced, and thus you can spam these abilities a bit more frequently. We could also do a set pool that doesn't change, but part of the motive for making your pool grow as you level is being able to gate certain features behind your level. For example, if we don't want to allow a cantrip to be quickened until 5th level or later, then we make it cost five points (if pool = level), or 3 points (if pool = proficiency bonus). At 20th level, you could quicken a cantrip four times if pool = level before running out, whereas if pool = proficiency bonus you could only quicken twice. The trade off is being able to quicken every 3 rounds vs. every 5 rounds.

The pool size isn't the only thing that can be tweaked. I do think there's wiggle room to change some of the effects, or reduce the overall number of effects. I like the idea of quickening a cantrip, particularly non-damage cantrips (hence why they're cheaper to quicken). Extending the range or duration, or removing the concentration requirement also give you some interesting ways to use them. The damage buff is important because otherwise cantrips that aren't EB are very lackluster in damage output.

I also think it's important that you be able to use more than one effect on the same casting. When you regenerate 1 point every turn, you'll never run out if you only use effects that only cost 1 point. These are basically free bonuses. But if you can apply more than one of these "free" effects, they are no longer free as the cost will eventually deplete your pool. For example, I made the basic damage boost only cost 1 point because I felt it really was something you should be able to use every single round. But instead of just giving it to you for free, you have to make the choice whether or not to use it, and if you're using a more costly effect, or combining several other effects, you might not be able to afford to also boost damage.

Let me take another stab at this and see if I can improve it somewhat.


Cantrip Master
Prerequisite: The ability to cast at least one cantrip

You have a pool of cantrip mastery points equal to your proficiency bonus. You can spend these points in a number of ways, and regain 1 point at the start of each of your turns. By spending points from your cantrip mastery pool, you can create the following effects:

Delayed Cantrip. When you cast a cantrip, you can spend 1 point to delay that cantrip from taking effect for up to three rounds. After the chosen number of rounds pass, the cantrip will take effect at the start of your turn.
Duplicitous Cantrip. When you cast a non-damaging cantrip, you may spend 1 point to create one additional effect. To qualify, the cantrip must require you to choose between at least two effects you can create with that cantrip.
Projected Cantrip. When you cast a cantrip, you may spend 1 point to treat the spell as being cast from a location you can see within 30 feet of you.
Distracted Cantrip. When you cast a cantrip that requires concentration, you can spend 3 points to forgo the need to concentrate on that cantrip.
Intense Cantrip. When you roll damage for a cantrip, you can spend any number of points to increase that damage. Each point you spend adds 1d8 additional damage.
Quickened Cantrip. When you cast a damaging cantrip that has a casting time of 1 action, you can spend 3 points to change the casting time to 1 bonus action. When you cast a non-damaging cantrip that has a casting time of 1 action, you can spend 1 point to change the casting time to 1 bonus action.


I tried to remove most of the effects that paralleled metamagic effects, except for quickened, and replace them with more unique and interesting effects. Many of these might not be very useful most of the time, but you could find creative and niche uses for them.

It still feels like an entire class feature whether you tone down the # of points or not. And I see now you've scaled up to points every turn. I don't know if you remember Incarnum from 3.5. I loved it, but it deserves to be its own thing.

Like maybe this Soulmelder Artificer (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vgW0v-jueTxsrt0FUvEoWGTy06jTLUsidow8FWrg9kQ/edit?usp=sharing), or this Blue Mage (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ORNNHLyG_MCp36RmwI4XvkcWtPS7k_f5/view?usp=sharing) that was heavily inspired by Incarnum.

[Greywander]

And I see now you've scaled up to points every turn.
??? If you're talking about the rate at which you regain points, it was always 1 point at the start of each of your turns, since the OP.

As far as turning this into a class, I think that could work. I've had a concept for a class with at-will spellcasting, and naturally has to be limited to lower level spells (I think my WIP version gets up to 3rd level spells at 17th level). But there's not really any cost difference between casting a 1st vs. 3rd level spell, except for the number of each you can prepare. Switching over to a spell point system that regenerates spell points every turn could work a lot better while still retaining the at-will-ish flavor.