Help me plan a coup fight.

[Skullruss]

My players have been playing down a mercenary guild (The Iron Wolves) questline, and they got to a point where I introduced the former guild leader who had been usurped. The players have decided to help get him reinstated. The players are level 11 right now, and I want to make this fight badass.

The former guild leader is a Greater Dusk Giant Werewolf name Lodrick, and the current leader is a Dwarf named Dain Hammerfist who I've built up to have an insane unarmed attack.
They also conspired with a criminal overlord to get serious reinforcements (5-10 strong goons) to help in the fight against Dain and the entirety of the Iron Wolves.
I've also mentioned that Dain has an Illusionist who helped him usurp Lodrick's position, and I think I have a build I can use for that, but any help would be appreciated.

Basically I want help with builds for the 5-10 reinforcements, and some of the Mercenaries who should not all be pushovers (it makes sense for some to be push overs though, since the players leveled from 1-11 in this guild).

I'm thinking about running a Shadowcraft mage build for the illusionist, Lodrick will be a werewolf using Tome of Battle maneuvers, and maybe Dain would be some kind of unarmed swordsage. My problem is I don't know how to run all of these builds in a way that feels cool since they're unique/strong while not making a huge battle like this a slog.

The battle is intended to take place in the guild hall which is more or less a gigantic rectangular hall fit out with armory and tables and such, with Dain's office at one end and the entrance at the other.

All help is greatly appreciated, I can elaborate further if need be.

[RNightstalker]

How many players are in your group? I'm up for helping design a "let's kill the PC's" encounter lol

[Skullruss]

There are 4 players in the group, each is level 11, 2 of the players are more or less power gaming, the other two are playing normal power builds. Ideally this will feel badass because it should feel difficult, but I'm not sure how to balance the many people, their strength, while not making it impossible to fight.

[RNightstalker]

So how many numbers are we looking at on each side? Are we looking at the Expendables being outnumbered 10:1, or Errol Flynn's Robin Hood where it's closer to 2:1?

[Skullruss]

So how many numbers are we looking at on each side? Are we looking at the Expendables being outnumbered 10:1, or Errol Flynn's Robin Hood where it's closer to 2:1?

I'm thinking something like 5:1. 3 out of that 5 are mooks, the remaining 2 should put up the fight.

[RNightstalker]

I'm thinking something like 5:1. 3 out of that 5 are mooks, the remaining 2 should put up the fight.

Ok so we need to design a dozen or so threats and a few dozen cannon fodder. So how many are on each side and what roles are already filled out/designed? And what kind of mercenary guild is this?

[Skullruss]

Ok so we need to design a dozen or so threats and a few dozen cannon fodder. So how many are on each side and what roles are already filled out/designed? And what kind of mercenary guild is this?

Well there's the 4 party members:
A ranged rogue, basically, who uses Elan toughness with manifester arrows to soak damage.
A rather standard dread necromancer.
A half-demon (he bought out the LA with levels) spellcaster who uses ability damage to soak up metamagics and alpha strike things at once.
A rather standard sorcerer who specialized into using frost magic.

Then they chose their hirelings last night during our session (I gave them titles based on the ones in DMG II pg. 160, but I kinda want them to not be garbage):
The High Priest
The Arcane Mercenary
The Mastermind
The Master Wizard
The Martial Artist

For the Iron Wolves:
Dain Hammerfist- I was thinking an unarmed swordsage build maybe, since I want his fist to HURT.
The Illusionist- I was thinking a toned down version of an Epic Level Shadowcraft Mage build I made
For the goons, I had no clue. It should make sense that they're mercs, but other than that it could be anything. Maybe we make the mooks shock troops, maybe we write off the real fodder as getting slain out by the Dusk Giant Werewolf since he has greater cleave. We could throw in charger builds, trip builds, grapplers, power attack builds, maybe a sneak attacker or two since I don't see why a rogue wouldn't be hired out occassionally.

[Starbuck_II]

Have you considered a buffer mercenary like Bard or two because extra +2 (o +3) to hit/dam from inspire courage really adds up. Granted, PCs will eventually figure out to gank them, but that means Leader is safe for a few rounds.

After they start the songs, they can start shooting arrows or casting disabling spells.

[Bucky]

When I'm planning a fight, I usually set the tactics first and fill in the enemies later. Your enemies here are smart - veteran mercenaries - and they've fought together before, so they should at least be able to support each other even when taken by surprise.

So you should figure out how they'd organize; for example, the less mobile half of them forming up around the illusionist, acting as a loose buff-sharing group and using ranged attacks unless closed on, and two separate squads (say, a flying group and another entering behind the PCs) going after the squishy casters.

Then you'd fill in the mooks - what the illusionist is doing and how he needs to be supported to do it, how the illusionist's allies can avoid being tricked, the flying squad's flight methods, the backstabbers' stealth, and countermeasures against casters in general.

So, what do you want the enemies, as a cohesive group rather than individual fighters acting in parallel, to try to do?


(E): Same with the goons on the PCs' side - they've probably fought together before and have their own basic tactic.

Since the enemies have little planned but are intelligent and share a language, you should script some verbal communication between them.

[Calthropstu]

Their inital assault will be to take care of mooks sitting in the foyer. They buy time as the rest get their **** together.

For the mage (non illusionist) give him black tentacles and give him 3 mooks built to ready action to bullrush anyone trying to come out of the tentacles. The bard will buff those mooks.

While they are stuck in the tentacles, the ranger will open fire on the party. This will be one line of defense. This tactic wrecks most 11ish level parties.

When they get out of the tentacles, the bard mage and ranger try to fall back to the next line.

This will be a little tougher if any of the 3 manage to make it back here. Get 2 more mooks for defence as the illusionist casts an illusionary wall of ice to buy prep time. Anyone that escaped the previous line should add buffs to the main melee combatant. He will then charge in. During this time, a pair of mooks built for ranged disarm strikes should move in. Knocking weapons from pc hands is a great way to make fights harder.

So they fight a major melee combatant while also contending with ranged disarm and escaped 1st line combatants. Once the primary melee combatant goes down everyone falls back and the guild leader comes out. All survivors get together and throw everything at the pcs.

I have run such a fight before and the result was glorious. The players got desperate more than once and there was real tension. When the lader went down there was actual cheering.

[Bucky]

There are 4 players in the group, each is level 11, 2 of the players are more or less power gaming, the other two are playing normal power builds. Ideally this will feel badass because it should feel difficult, but I'm not sure how to balance the many people, their strength, while not making it impossible to fight.

The by-the-book guideline is Enemy CR = Effective Party Level + 3, where the Effective Party Level (EPL) is higher than normal because of the extra party members. The EPL is tricky to calculate if not all your party is the same effective character level.

Narrative requirements say the party shouldn't all be the same level, with the hirelings a level or two behind so they don't overshadow the PCs, and the guild leader an effective level ahead (counting the template) because he's the designated badass.

So you can bypass the CR approximation by using an XP budget. A mirror match would be Enemy CR = EPL + 4 exactly. So you take a copy of the assault party, dock each member one level, and calculate how much XP would be awarded for defeating the weakened copy party. That's your budget. The guild defenders should yield about that much total XP when defeated, but you can split the defenders' levels (or add and remove mooks) however you want to get close (within about 5%) to the target.

[Skullruss]

Their inital assault will be to take care of mooks sitting in the foyer. They buy time as the rest get their **** together.

For the mage (non illusionist) give him black tentacles and give him 3 mooks built to ready action to bullrush anyone trying to come out of the tentacles. The bard will buff those mooks.

While they are stuck in the tentacles, the ranger will open fire on the party. This will be one line of defense. This tactic wrecks most 11ish level parties.

When they get out of the tentacles, the bard mage and ranger try to fall back to the next line.

This will be a little tougher if any of the 3 manage to make it back here. Get 2 more mooks for defence as the illusionist casts an illusionary wall of ice to buy prep time. Anyone that escaped the previous line should add buffs to the main melee combatant. He will then charge in. During this time, a pair of mooks built for ranged disarm strikes should move in. Knocking weapons from pc hands is a great way to make fights harder.

So they fight a major melee combatant while also contending with ranged disarm and escaped 1st line combatants. Once the primary melee combatant goes down everyone falls back and the guild leader comes out. All survivors get together and throw everything at the pcs.

I have run such a fight before and the result was glorious. The players got desperate more than once and there was real tension. When the lader went down there was actual cheering.

This is a great idea. I like the thought process, and I can go more in-depth on my own at this rate. Thank you.