hallowed, consecrated, desecrated soil - who cares?

[da newt]

Where can I find the 5e rules/references that give any significance to holy ground / locations - hallowed, consecrated, desecrated, sacred, etc and if there are any rules wrt monster interaction (undead, were-stuff, vamps, etc) or magic or ceremonies or what not?

Thanks.

[Anymage]

Hallow (https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/hallow) is a spell. Beyond that I can't think of anything that doesn't just crib from the spell effects wholesale, because D&D has a long history of making spells and magic items be where they put all their effects.

[1Pirate]

Where can I find the 5e rules/references that give any significance to holy ground / locations - hallowed, consecrated, desecrated, sacred, etc and if there are any rules wrt monster interaction (undead, were-stuff, vamps, etc) or magic or ceremonies or what not?

Thanks.

DMG has desecrated ground in the Wilderness Hazards section on page 110(in my printing anyway). Undead have advantage on all saving throws while standing on it.

[Naanomi]

Sometimes things like that are put in monster descriptions historically, can't enter holy ground and the like. No example springs to mind but I'm sure I've seen some of that verbiage in 5e

[da newt]

Thanks.

I'd seen the Hallowed spell, but can't find anything that says that churches or consecrated or sacred or hallowed ground (not under the spell) are under the same effects as the Hallowed spell creates.

The desecrated ground condition implies there is such a thing as consecrated, but I can't find it anywhere.

There is some random lore alluded to wrt some monsters, but I can't find anything actually written as RAW.

I've just recently come across a priest who locked his vampire son in his church's basement, a priest who sent us on a quest to recover the remains of his churches saint because they were what made the church consecrated and with them missing the church has lost that 'power', and been attacked while in a church/abbey by werewolves and vampires and spawn who gave no regard to the place at all, and have had different vamps/spawn avoid a church ... it seems there is no consistency or governing rule set and each GM or Campaign makes up it's own lore as it goes.

With all the Barovia, Ravenloft, and other horror themed content being created, I'd hoped there was some sort of guidance for this stuff.

[Chronos]

I think the idea is that in a D&D world, anyone building a church would cast the Hallow spell as part of the process, so churches all gain those benefits.

[Sorinth]

It's pretty much a do what you want situation where the DM is encouraged to make something cool and unique rather then it being your run of the mill effect.

Sounds like you are a player, in this case yeah you don't have much to go on, it's whatever your DM wants. Best you can do is ask if your characters knows anything with respect to making ground holy beyond the Hallow spell. Presumably the saints remains act as a sort of Hallow spell.

[Sigreid]

I'd assume most church grounds wouldn't actually be anything special. It takes pretty significant spiritual umph to make that happen and most priests in default D&D aren't even really clerics (the god's chosen). I know that's not the way a lot of people play, but the cleric description leads me to understand that most priests are just guys educated in the ways of the church but without divine power.

[Chronos]

Yeah, they say that most priests aren't clerics. But what most of them are is the Priest NPC stat block... which is basically a 5th-level cleric, at least in terms of hit points and spellcasting.

OK, so that's still not high enough to cast the Hallow spell. But that's just most priests. The guy who will end up running the temple might only be 5th level, but there are probably folks above him in the church hierarchy who are more powerful, and it's perfectly reasonable to assume that one of them can stop by for the dedication ceremony.

[Sigreid]

Yeah, they say that most priests aren't clerics. But what most of them are is the Priest NPC stat block... which is basically a 5th-level cleric, at least in terms of hit points and spellcasting.

OK, so that's still not high enough to cast the Hallow spell. But that's just most priests. The guy who will end up running the temple might only be 5th level, but there are probably folks above him in the church hierarchy who are more powerful, and it's perfectly reasonable to assume that one of them can stop by for the dedication ceremony.

My reading from the PHB was that most of them aren't blessed with divine power at all. I doubt many people play it that way though.

[Naanomi]

My reading from the PHB was that most of them aren't blessed with divine power at all. I doubt many people play it that way though.
I usually play that all but the smallest established holy sites have someone who can cast Ceremony (tiny shrines and the like have wandering clergy who visit every so often to marry people and the like), but one shouldn't expect much more than that... 1st level casters or even just humans with magic initiate bonus feat

[firelistener]

My reading from the PHB was that most of them aren't blessed with divine power at all. I doubt many people play it that way though.

I think that's consistent with the PHB and DMG how they try to differentiate between "heroes" like the PCs and everyone else. But at the same time, a lot of adventures and official 5e books will throw in stuff like this.

For example, in Curse of Strahd there's priest (MM statblock) who can't cast hallow, but it states:

... St. Andral's church once again becomes hallowed ground, as though the building was protected by a hallow spell.
So there's an implication that it became hallowed at some point before by someone else through some kind of process.

[Lunali]

Most churches won't have a caster capable of casting hallow. However, most churches will be associated with a larger organization that will have one or more of these casters.

[Sigreid]

If it ever came up, I'd also be ok with the idea that after a few years of the right ceremonies being performed (non magical) and the sincere dedication of a congregation, the ground would gradually just be imprinted.

[Reach Weapon]

I've just recently come across a priest who locked his vampire son in his church's basement, a priest who sent us on a quest to recover the remains of his churches saint because they were what made the church consecrated and with them missing the church has lost that 'power', and been attacked while in a church/abbey by werewolves and vampires and spawn who gave no regard to the place at all, and have had different vamps/spawn avoid a church ... it seems there is no consistency or governing rule set and each GM or Campaign makes up it's own lore as it goes.

I think you've correctly determined that you don't have enough of the right information and reasons to doubt some of what you've been told, but you're responding to that on the player level, instead of making your DM do the work. Consider for a moment the wider world your character inhabits and all the ways your party can exploit those resources for your best outcome.
You've got real and magic granting gods, how can you get answers directly from the appropriate ones.
You've a religious organization large enough to support a church/abbey, are there records, a hierarchy, other branches?
There are clearly other organizations in the world, including local governments, historical societies and the like, what do they know?
Heck, you might even check your backstory to see if you have friends, relatives or old neighbors who could help out.

Resolving part of your adventure with some Int (History) and Int (Religion) checks and a calligraphy set is as valid as doing it with some Sneak Attacks and a Rage.

[Monteparnas]

I'm flabbergasted that no one here thought of looking into older editions...

Desecrate and Consecrate are 2nd level spells. Why they didn't made it to 5th edition in an official capacity is beyond me, as they're so fundamental to the game that, as you see, the lore and monsters keep referencing them all the time.

The effect of Desecrate gives a bunch of buffs to undead, mostly against Turn Undead, but also a small bonus to hit. Consecrate gives the exact opposite debuffs. Also they're a little tougher if created in Desecrated ground and impossible to create on Consecrated ground.

Other than that, both are heavily linked to plot devices. Holy symbols and whatnot of the same faith double the effect, and you can choose to exchange all the effects to instead magically break holy whatnots of enemy faiths and "block their god's link to the place" for whatever that means, they cancel each other, and cost the 25gp in silvered holy water cited in the DMG pp 110.

Basically their main feature is to establish what Consecrated and Desecrated ground is, then the DM is encouraged to have important holy places like that, but permanent and without use of a spell. The DGM's version is a bad substitute for the original effect, but it tries.

[Unoriginal]

Desecrate and Consecrate are 2nd level spells. Why they didn't made it to 5th edition in an official capacity is beyond me, as they're so fundamental to the game that, as you see, the lore and monsters keep referencing them all the time.

They might have been in past editions, but now they aren't.

They're only fundamental if the people who made the rules and the lore for 5e decided so. And they didn't.


Yeah, they say that most priests aren't clerics. But what most of them are is the Priest NPC stat block... which is basically a 5th-level cleric, at least in terms of hit points and spellcasting.

OK, so that's still not high enough to cast the Hallow spell. But that's just most priests. The guy who will end up running the temple might only be 5th level, but there are probably folks above him in the church hierarchy who are more powerful, and it's perfectly reasonable to assume that one of them can stop by for the dedication ceremony.


My reading from the PHB was that most of them aren't blessed with divine power at all. I doubt many people play it that way though.

Yeah, most priests and clergy members in the world don't have divine power, nor do they use the Priest NPC statblock.

But "most of X in the world" and "most of X who rub elbows with PCs" aren't the same thing. The local abbot being a Commoner with extra WIS, INT and/or CHA and proficiency in Religion isn't that exciting for an adventure (unless you're a geek like me who love that kind of stuff).

And the higher you get in the hierarchy the most likely it is to have people who have been granted power by the god.

That being said I do remember that some adventures do have church officials who don't have divine powers. Also members of holy/divinity-serving knightly orders who aren't paladins.

[titi]

Considering the priest said the relics are needed to keep the place consecrated ,and the spell hallow doesn't refer to relics at all (the DM is probably referring to the fact that all catholic churches have a relic in their altars), I think it's safe to assume there's a way to consecrate a place without the hallow spell (at least in this campaign)

[Unoriginal]

Considering the priest said the relics are needed to keep the place consecrated ,and the spell hallow doesn't refer to relics at all (the DM is probably referring to the fact that all catholic churches have a relic in their altars), I think it's safe to assume there's a way to consecrate a place without the hallow spell (at least in this campaign)

And if there is a doubt about it working like the priest said, the players can ask the DM if their PCs' own knowledge of such matters support that hypothesis, and if the PCs don't know they can ask sages, other priests, etc.

[Mastikator]

Most churches won't have a caster capable of casting hallow. However, most churches will be associated with a larger organization that will have one or more of these casters.

True, but Hallow lasts until dispelled so having had one 300 years ago is enough for a temple to be hallowed today, even if there are no clerics of said deity/religion currently capable of the spell.

It's also a nice piece of worldbuilding to have historical NPCs and history.

[Sigreid]

True, but Hallow lasts until dispelled so having had one 300 years ago is enough for a temple to be hallowed today, even if there are no clerics of said deity/religion currently capable of the spell.

It's also a nice piece of worldbuilding to have historical NPCs and history.

One of the things I'm not a fan of with 5e is the "until dispelled" for effects that are supposed to be permanent. I think permanent magics of any kind should be, well, permanent until an equal and opposing magic/divine force is applied. Rather than just any joker with dispell magic prepped.

[truemane]

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