Heroism Shelf Life

[Magikeeper]

The heroism spell – 1 minute of having having 3-5 temp hp buffer that refills each turn.

So, I’m trying to get a feel for how powerful heroism-type effects are in various situations. Part of that, is figuring out when the above effect stops being very useful. I can, of course, look back at what I’ve seen in D&D campaigns but I’d like to know more than just just my own experience. I’ve googled various conversations on the heroism spell, and I’ve seen many a story about how the spell allowed XYZ to be awesome. They usually never mention what level this occurred at, however, so it may well only be at levels 1-5.

Is heroism good at levels 6-11? It requires concentration, so to be fair let’s pretend the party somehow has a way to use it without tying up their primary caster(s), since it obviously isn’t going to stack up to 3/4/5th level concentration effects. A multiclass build, a magic item, level 1 npc buddy, etc.

If heroism isn't very good at those levels, how much temp HP would it need to give to be notable again?

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More general commentary on the value of a refilling temp HP buffer at higher levels would also be very welcome.

[SharkForce]

The heroism spell – 1 minute of having having 3-5 temp hp buffer that refills each turn.

So, I’m trying to get a feel for how powerful heroism-type effects are in various situations. Part of that, is figuring out when the above effect stops being very useful. I can, of course, look back at what I’ve seen in D&D campaigns but I’d like to know more than just just my own experience. I’ve googled various conversations on the heroism spell, and I’ve seen many a story about how the spell allowed XYZ to be awesome. They usually never mention what level this occurred at, however, so it may well only be at levels 1-5.

Is heroism good at levels 6-11? It requires concentration, so to be fair let’s pretend the party somehow has a way to use it without tying up their primary caster(s), since it obviously isn’t going to stack up to 3/4/5th level concentration effects. A multiclass build, a magic item, level 1 npc buddy, etc.

If heroism isn't very good at those levels, how much temp HP would it need to give to be notable again?

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More general commentary on the value of a refilling temp HP buffer at higher levels would also be very welcome.

heroism is also useful for making people immune to fear. it isn't amazing at preventing damage (though it isn't terrible either), but when you add in fear immunity it's pretty much fine imo.

[Kuulvheysoon]

More general commentary on the value of a refilling temp HP buffer at higher levels would also be very welcome.
There's a reason why the Twilight Domain's Channel Divinity is considered extremely strong. It grants 1d6 + cleric level THP to every creature within 30 feet. It's enough to mitigate most damage per round at low levels, and it scales far better than the similar THP granted by the Artillerist's cannon, which is 1d6 + Int mod.

[MaxWilson]

There's a reason why the Twilight Domain's Channel Divinity is considered extremely strong. It grants 1d6 + cleric level THP to every creature within 30 feet. It's enough to mitigate most damage per round at low levels, and it scales far better than the similar THP granted by the Artillerist's cannon, which is 1d6 + Int mod.

And it's not like the Artillerist THP is bad either! I've seen it be useful in a Tier 4 fight between a 20th level Zealot and a CR 17 Goristro(2x Deadly fight according to the DMG)--it basically cut the Goristro's DPR in half IIRC.

But yeah, generally I see Heroism used for preventing fear, with the temp HP as a fringe benefit.

It certainly is notable that a 2nd level Twilight Cleric's Channel Divinity can replicate the effects of a 5th+ level Heroism spell, without even costing concentration! Twilight Domain's designers were nuts.

[Magikeeper]

Thanks!

I was unaware of those, and the various threads on them go far deeper into mid-high level effects of piles of temp-hp.

[Sherlockpwns]

One particular nice benefit is to cast it on a raging barbarian, which does effectively double the temp hp part. I’d say it’s worth a level 2 slot if you have another target in danger. so good for temp around level 1-6 (assuming you’ve burned your level 3 spells already). After that I’d consider it rare that you’d cast it for temp hp.

As others stated, it’s a good way to grant mass fear immunity if you know you are fighting something with fear (dragons etc).

I think it’s especially good if you know one or more people are going to be taking damage every round.

And yeah I echo the fact that temp hp used to be a lot harder to come by. That’s what made inspirational leader so awesome (it’s still pretty awesome). As a result I feel heroism fell behind the power curve from first printing. Still good enough to consider casting though.

[stoutstien]

As others have said it's a fear counter with some extra THP rather than the other way around. It doesn't upcast particularly well, the range is touch, and the casting time of an action means it's rarely a great spell but usually you only have 1-2 party members that can't address fear already.

[Chronos]

Unless you get the "buff round before you kick down the door", it's probably going to cost an action in combat, because it has a short duration. And its effective duration is limited even further, to the duration of the combat. If a combat lasts for three rounds, then it's mitigating 15 points of damage. It's not too tough to get that from a healing spell, but healing in battle is usually a poor option. And it's worse even than that, because Heroism uses an action at the start of combat, when actions are more valuable.

Compare it to, say, Aid. Aid doesn't use a combat action, because it has a nice, long duration. It doesn't need concentration. It starts off affecting three people. It stacks with any other sources of temporary HP you might have. It offers better protection against being one-shot. And it doesn't care if you take damage every round, or all at once.

[Mobius Twist]

I started a vHuman Lore Bard with Inspiring Leadership and Heroism recently and found that past level 4 I wasn't getting the hit point buffer mileage out of the spell. The feat delivered broad, better-scaling coverage and I could use concentration on effective debuffs like Slow at 5th level that beat the Heroism spell for overall impact.