Ideal Class Resources

[Person_Man]

So I’m working on a homebrew psionic class, which I haven’t posted yet as I’m playtesting it. (I know its been done many dozens of times before by other better writers. Its basically just an excuse for me to put most of my favorite non-combat abilities into one easy to use package).

But I’m stuck on how many class abilities I should be giving them at each level. Levels 1-6 are pretty easy. But after that, different classes get a very different number of options and uses per day. So I’m looking for ideas.

What’s your ideal class in terms of resource distribution?

In my head, I feel like the Warlock and Monk are pretty close to my personal ideal, with a few more high level class abilities added. But when compared to full casters, they always feel lacking. Whereas homebrew classes balanced against full casters seems to obliterate the niches of every other class. After all, a Bard with Friends/Charm/Detect Thoughts/Suggestion etc is already an amazing Psion with different fluff. If you give him more of anything while taking away options you weren’t going to use anyway, why play any other class?

Interested in all feedback. Thanks.

[Abracadangit]

I think it was the new dragon-themed Monk UA subclass that introduced a neat idea - abilities that can be used a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus per short or long rest (depending on the ability), with the added option of being able to consume a resource (ki points) if you want to keep using it after the prof. bonus quantity is burned out. I like it - the number of times you get it per rest will go up every few levels, and then you can make the decision to consume a resource for it if you want to keep using it later.

[quindraco]

So I’m working on a homebrew psionic class, which I haven’t posted yet as I’m playtesting it. (I know its been done many dozens of times before by other better writers. Its basically just an excuse for me to put most of my favorite non-combat abilities into one easy to use package).

But I’m stuck on how many class abilities I should be giving them at each level. Levels 1-6 are pretty easy. But after that, different classes get a very different number of options and uses per day. So I’m looking for ideas.

What’s your ideal class in terms of resource distribution?

In my head, I feel like the Warlock and Monk are pretty close to my personal ideal, with a few more high level class abilities added. But when compared to full casters, they always feel lacking. Whereas homebrew classes balanced against full casters seems to obliterate the niches of every other class. After all, a Bard with Friends/Charm/Detect Thoughts/Suggestion etc is already an amazing Psion with different fluff. If you give him more of anything while taking away options you weren’t going to use anyway, why play any other class?

Interested in all feedback. Thanks.

Depends on what the resources do and how they scale. For example, Wild Shape is 2/short rest with duration scaling with class level, meaning the 2x isn't a tight pinch - and what you can Wild Shape into also scales up as you level.

I like to get a class ability as close to every level as possible, so levels never feel "dead", but that doesn't mean a class ability has to have any given scaling. The L1 Fighter ability Archery has no scaling at all and is incredible.

Bardic Inspiration has basically the most "elegant" scaling in the game, if you want to copy something: its size equals your proficiency die, and your quantity is Charisma/Rest, so both level and ability modifier matter in a multiplicative fashion. That's fairly ideal, but it's not perfect for every conceivable idea you might have. Soulknife Psionic Power dice ignore all ability modifiers, which is deeply weird - number of dice is pb*2 per long rest + 1 per short rest, and the size is pb, so the total per long rest assuming 2 short rests per day is (pb*2+3)*pb = 2*pb^2+pb*3. That's weird and janky as hell (particularly given how it just ignores your ability modifiers), but it's undeniably scaling. I would never have written that ability that way, but WOTC will do as WOTC does.

[MrStabby]

My personal observation is that I like abilities that don't just draw from a common resource. The ability to sacrifice one ability for another is powerful, but in play it means there is always a steep opportunity cost.

For example, I think the Paladin's divine sense is cool - you want to use that ability because hording it for later is a waste. This means you play the character that senses undead etc.. Compare with the Ranger ability Primeval Awareness to detect enemies - the consumption of a spell slot means that the opportunity cost is too high to use the ability. Even if you were to make the Paladin and the Ranger of equal power, the ranger would be unlikely to be sensing these enemies whilst the paladin would. Ensuring that you can do something at least once for free and that that ability cannot be swapped for a different ability helps ensure it gets used... like the ACF Primal Awareness does.

I think that Monks suffer from this the worst. Ki is arguably too flexable - monks rarely dodge or dash as a bonus action when they could be using the Ki for sunning strike; this gives a feel of a class that in practice is less mobile and less slipery that its abilities actually suggest.

So whilst the Paladin is overpowered, I think that it is close to my ideal in terms of resource style. There are so many different resources. Lay on hands is a different pool to divine sense uses, which is a different pool to spell slots, which is a different pool to channel divinities, which is a different pool to cleansing touch uses... This means that in play, a paladin is a character that actually does all of those things rather than just can do, but in pracice doesn't. I also think this works well as a balance of short and long rest mechanics but also gives some flexability (you still chose what to use a spell slot on or which CD to use or be able to sacrifice lay on hands HP for poison removal).

One final thing I would note is that splitting things into different resources rather than a single pool makes it easier to balance. If there is one ability too strong then a class that has a single resource pool can pour its resources into that single too strong ability. With seperate resource pools, the absolute impact of a bit of a misjudgement on the strength of an ability is capped.

[Abracadangit]

My personal observation is that I like abilities that don't just draw from a common resource. The ability to sacrifice one ability for another is powerful, but in play it means there is always a steep opportunity cost.

For example, I think the Paladin's divine sense is cool - you want to use that ability because hording it for later is a waste. This means you play the character that senses undead etc.. Compare with the Ranger ability Primeval Awareness to detect enemies - the consumption of a spell slot means that the opportunity cost is too high to use the ability. Even if you were to make the Paladin and the Ranger of equal power, the ranger would be unlikely to be sensing these enemies whilst the paladin would. Ensuring that you can do something at least once for free and that that ability cannot be swapped for a different ability helps ensure it gets used... like the ACF Primal Awareness does.

I think that Monks suffer from this the worst. Ki is arguably too flexable - monks rarely dodge or dash as a bonus action when they could be using the Ki for sunning strike; this gives a feel of a class that in practice is less mobile and less slipery that its abilities actually suggest.

So whilst the Paladin is overpowered, I think that it is close to my ideal in terms of resource style. There are so many different resources. Lay on hands is a different pool to divine sense uses, which is a different pool to spell slots, which is a different pool to channel divinities, which is a different pool to cleansing touch uses... This means that in play, a paladin is a character that actually does all of those things rather than just can do, but in pracice doesn't. I also think this works well as a balance of short and long rest mechanics but also gives some flexability (you still chose what to use a spell slot on or which CD to use or be able to sacrifice lay on hands HP for poison removal).

One final thing I would note is that splitting things into different resources rather than a single pool makes it easier to balance. If there is one ability too strong then a class that has a single resource pool can pour its resources into that single too strong ability. With seperate resource pools, the absolute impact of a bit of a misjudgement on the strength of an ability is capped.

Agree with everything here. Monks have this interesting problem - they're the one "pure" martial that can't do their "thing" as often as they want. Rogues can sneak attack whenever they want, fighters get x3 and x4 attack whenever they want (I know action surge is limited), barbs have theoretically limited rages but it's easy enough to stretch one rage over a whole encounter, and so on. Monks are martials in theory, but because you're always bookkeeping your ki points since almost everything connects to it, you FEEL like you're playing a spellcaster. If monks got more things they could do all the time, everyone would be way more chill about the ki thing.

But yeah, paladins are great because everything sits in its own counter or meter or whatever. More classes should work like that.

[Kane0]

What’s your ideal class in terms of resource distribution?


Clerics/Paladins (channel & spells), EK fighters (wind/surge & spells), Druids (wildshape & spells), Bards (inspiration & spells) all have a mix of short-rest and long-rest based resources that often compliment one another but aren't all drawn from the same pool like say monks, sorcerers are. I like that.

In terms of number of uses, I think [prof bonus] is superior to [stat bonus] in most cases, with the option of further uses using spell slots.

Having one pool for everything makes sense in theory, but (in my experience) reduces diversity of play in practice.

[quindraco]

I don't think separate pools is all that and a bag of chips, or spellcasters would be much worse than they area. They already choose from a menu of what they can do (spells) using a common resource (spell slots). I don't think the game would necessarily be better if e.g. Shield was a distinct pool from Absorb Elements, or if Paladins were forced to have distinct, smaller pools for Lay on Hands healing vs Lay on Hands curing.

[Abracadangit]

I don't think separate pools is all that and a bag of chips, or spellcasters would be much worse than they area. They already choose from a menu of what they can do (spells) using a common resource (spell slots). I don't think the game would necessarily be better if e.g. Shield was a distinct pool from Absorb Elements, or if Paladins were forced to have distinct, smaller pools for Lay on Hands healing vs Lay on Hands curing.

Oh, definitely - gotta draw a line somewhere. And I think spell slots do their job admirably well. But for weird half-casters and martials with magic powers, I do think separate pools are the way to go, or else you end up too scared to use anything for fear of needing it later, then it's rest time and you've got all these resources that didn't get used.

[Kane0]

I don't think separate pools is all that and a bag of chips, or spellcasters would be much worse than they area. They already choose from a menu of what they can do (spells) using a common resource (spell slots). I don't think the game would necessarily be better if e.g. Shield was a distinct pool from Absorb Elements, or if Paladins were forced to have distinct, smaller pools for Lay on Hands healing vs Lay on Hands curing.

Well, you could make the argument that you have 2-10 pools, one for each spell level. Though they do blend together with upcasting and such.

Still, have you ever had a player that only ever casts fireball the same way a monk only uses Ki on Flurrying? It's less common, but i've seen it happen.

[OldTrees1]

You will get a diverse set of opinions on this.

For example personally I want a diverse set of at will, passive, and/or triggered abilities. If an ability does require a resource, I prefer the resource to rapidly regenerate, or the ability to have a long duration, or the ability to have enough uses that I can pretend it is at will.

I have played 3 5E characters with spellcasting. 2 of them focused on rituals for at-will casting. The 3rd used warlock casting.

One type of resource I don't mind being severely limited is ablative defenses for other PCs. Dun the Dungeon Tour Guide knew Healing Word and kept it in reserve for IF it became needed.


However you will find other players that prefer more of a rollercoaster with splashy highs surrounded by patient lows.