Mounted monsters?

[Morphic tide]

We have a lot of monsters who are very explicitly higher-quality mounts, we have a lot of monsters who are usable Mounts if you can somehow bypass the issues with non-"war trained" mounts, we even have a few monsters who call out certain parts of the Mounted Combat rules to act like they are Mounted in some ways like the Centaur. But I cannot for the life of me locate any true monsters with serious emphasis on riding another mechanically-distinct creature.

I'd also be interested in monsters that are very obviously good at riding other creatures in the actual Ride skill sense, even if they lack specific abilities relating to Ride. Which largely relates to attack interference, Dexterity bonuses for the Ride skill, and buffs not self-specific, generally on things without Fly speeds and below Large size. No matter how deliciously murderous a Solar riding a Young Adult Gold Dragon can just by messing around with spell and feat selection, and the hilarity that may ensue from tossing this at a low Epic Evil party with some Young and Juvinile Half-Celestial Gold Dragons.

[Saintheart]

...SRD goblins have some Ride capacity for wargs IIRC.

[Morphic tide]

...SRD goblins have some Ride capacity for wargs IIRC.
Actually they have a general +4 racial bonus to Ride and +2 Dexterity, Worgs are just the "suggested" example. Despite being CR 2 Intelligence 6 monsters. Why does a 1st-level Warrior have a CR 2 mount? Probably "Because Fantasy", a bog-standard Wolf isn't "special" enough... The Goblin organization entry also brings up the question of what Worgs think of Dire Wolves. Like, is it the equivalent of them being stared down by an 800 pound gorilla? And there's an issue here in that neither Worgs nor Dire Wolves have the mount text, implying that they have the unspecified dysfunction of an untrained Griffon. Though at least the Warbeast template exists for Dire Wolves.

This also has a major bit of weirdness with Worgs having their own language, as by all appearances their largest populations by far are members of Goblin tribes. So them having the anatomical ability to speak Goblin would indicate most Worgs should speak it as they're surrounded by other speakers, or alternatively such Goblin tribes have widespread fluency in Worg, or most realistically such tribes speak a third language that's a creole of the historic Worg and Goblin languages.

There is, however, no unusual mechanical abilities behind it. Just a big Ride check.

And because I'm a horrible person, I'm now thinking of a race that's the result of Worg-Goblin crossbreeding, possibly with a vital intermediary of Lycanthropy.

[Crake]

Why does a 1st-level Warrior have a CR 2 mount?

Nobody said all goblins must be 1st level warriors? A 6th level goblin ranger with leadership could have a worg cohort for example?

That said, even a level 1 goblin could get a wolf mount with the wild cohort feat.

[Thurbane]

Doesn't seem to be a large monster niche, but two sprang immediately to mind:


Narzugon devil (FC2 p.125)
Wild Hunter (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20070601a) (EttDP p.41).


[edit] Thought of another:


Spectral Rider (MM5 p.160)



And because I'm a horrible person, I'm now thinking of a race that's the result of Worg-Goblin crossbreeding, possibly with a vital intermediary of Lycanthropy.

You might like Varags (MM4):


Varags’ behavior is distinctly canine, the result of special breeding. They are the magical product of commingling hobgoblins and dire wolves. The resulting race has bred true ever since.

[Crake]

And because I'm a horrible person, I'm now thinking of a race that's the result of Worg-Goblin crossbreeding, possibly with a vital intermediary of Lycanthropy.

Aren't barghests literally this? Down to the ability to shapeshift between wolf or goblin, and their natural form being a goblin-wolf hybrid?

[Dalmosh]

Ferrumach rilmani are explicitly designed as battlefield cavalry, and have their own specific mount creature (the kuldurath), though they also innately cast phantom steed which they are described as using as an alternative strategy. Their statline and abilities make them out to act a bit like questing knights for Neutrality.

I'd always assumed Worgs bully Goblins into being their opposable thumbs, rather than acting as traditional trained mounts.

[Morphic tide]

Nobody said all goblins must be 1st level warriors? A 6th level goblin ranger with leadership could have a worg cohort for example?

That said, even a level 1 goblin could get a wolf mount with the wild cohort feat.
The Band organization gives us one 3rd-level Sergeant per 20 adults, while the Warband that is fully mounted on Worgs is 10-24. The Tribe, meanwhile, repeats the Sergeants and gives 10-24 Worgs, alongside 1-2 4th-5th level Lieutenants and a 6th-8th level leader, alongside 2-4 Dire Wolves. There are, in fact, a sizable number of Worgs ridden by 1st-level Goblin Warriors. Maybe some Rogues who're there to follow up the Trips.


Doesn't seem to be a large monster niche, but two sprang immediately to mind:


Narzugon devil (FC2 p.125)
Wild Hunter (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20070601a) (EttDP p.41).


[edit] Thought of another:


Spectral Rider (MM5 p.160)


Narzugon seem to operate as a Mounted monster solely via feats and 3/day Mount. Other than that, it's a fairly standard low-level Devil, for all it's unusual for actually wearing armor making it dramatically less breakable as a PC. Spell Resistance is always good. Definitely able to horrendously trouble casters a few levels higher, especially with some class levels of its own to pick up more damage or useful defenses (Paladin of Tyranny HO!)

Wild Hunter is one of those torturously silly monster designs. 20 RHD at CR 9, to get the attack roll and HP on pace in spite of having only 16 Str/18 Dex/14 Con. The players can easily have better than that at level 9! Who wrote that thing? Nonetheless, Charisma to Mount AC is a nice ability, and goes well with Paladins. For all sharing Dexterity to AC would make more sense with what Mounted Combat does. It notably has abilities far better suited to being a mounted archer than anything else, given the 2d6 per-hit bonus to bows, and... Goes all the way to Trample without taking Mounted Archer when it's paired with a monster that doesn't have a Hoof attack to Trample with!

Spectral Rider is more noteworthy as a terrifying Undead than as a mounted combatant thanks to a Desecrate emanation that also forces a DC 17 Will save versus dissolving Holy Symbols, but at-will Phantom Steed and Incorporeal movement make for a pretty interesting charger since they can wholly ignore all obstacles, including solid walls, if they know where their target is, thereby removing a major complication with mounted charging of going at the seemingly-squishy guys through the big dumb fighters. And are interesting enough a perfectly viable party face, as well as having Intimidate on-list.


Aren't barghests literally this? Down to the ability to shapeshift between wolf or goblin, and their natural form being a goblin-wolf hybrid?
...That is a derp on my part, though they're Goblinoid-resembling Outsiders created to screw with one of the Goblin gods for breaking a deal with the General of Gehenna. So they're sort-of a Yugoloth cuckoo, complete with Goblins thinking they're a blessing from Bane, but that just means shenanigans with mistaken identities! Doubly so with the existing Planetouched Worghest being Dragon Magazine only, and lacking much mechanically in common with Goblins.

[Gruftzwerg]

Actually they have a general +4 racial bonus to Ride and +2 Dexterity, Worgs are just the "suggested" example. Despite being CR 2 Intelligence 6 monsters. Why does a 1st-level Warrior have a CR 2 mount?

Just because a goblin warriors tend to use Worgs as mounts doesn't mean that a Worg is calculated into the CR of the goblin due to being its mount. In this chase you would design a combined encounter with Goblins and Worgs as their mounts and calculate each of their CR together.
Further the Goblin is more intelligent as the Worg, so it seems natural that they can convince em to be mounted by them. Because having a rider can be beneficial (Mounted Combat: prevent a successful attack against your mount once per turn with a ride roll). Finally intelligent mounts don't need special training, you only need to share a language for easy communication and commands.

[Biggus]

There's the Hoary Hunter (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/hoaryHunter.htm) from the ELH which comes with its own unique mount and has several mounted combat feats.

[PraxisVetli]

This also has a major bit of weirdness with Worgs having their own language, as by all appearances their largest populations by far are members of Goblin tribes. So them having the anatomical ability to speak Goblin would indicate most Worgs should speak it as they're surrounded by other speakers, or alternatively such Goblin tribes have widespread fluency in Worg, or most realistically such tribes speak a third language that's a creole of the historic Worg and Goblin languages.

There is, however, no unusual mechanical abilities behind it. Just a big Ride check.



Finally intelligent mounts don't need special training, you only need to share a language for easy communication and commands.

Ok but...
They don't share a language, so then what.

[Zombimode]

Ok but...
They don't share a language, so then what.

What do you mean? Both goblins and worgs speak goblin.

[ShurikVch]

Githyanki (Polyhedron #159):

Most githyanki, and especially knights, like to go into battle mounted while on the Material Plane. They are so accustomed to the high speed of movement and combat on the Astral Plane that fighting on foot feels unbearably slow. Naturally, knights often ride the red dragons (or fiendish red dragons) who obey the githyanki because of Gith's ancient pact with Ephelomon, consort of Tiamat. Other favorite mounts include nightmares, hieracosphinxes, and spider eaters.

Lupin (Dragon Compendium):

Expert Rider: Lupins always consider Ride a class skill, and they gain a +2 bonus on all Ride checks. Lupins rely on strong mounts while making their yearly nomadic movements, and even settled lupins purchase a horse as soon as they can.

Night Hag (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/nightHag.htm):

Organization: Solitary, mounted (1, on nightmare), or covey (3, on nightmares)

Triton (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/triton.htm) - by the Monster Manual entry:

When encountered outside their lair, they are 90% likely to be mounted on friendly sea creatures such as porpoises.

Sun Giant (Monster Manual II):

During times of war, they fight mounted, seated upon Gargantuan steeds that they raise and train themselves.
...
They almost always ride rather than traveling on foot. They prefer living mounts such as rocs and giant lizards, but when such creatures are scarce, they are quite willing to have their clerics animate dead mounts.

https://64.media.tumblr.com/d8d0b18a796c1f114c7598125190db9f/tumblr_mtnssuBxVV1r3sy6wo1_500.jpg



What do you mean? Both goblins and worgs speak goblin.
By the Monster Manual entry:

More intelligent than their smaller cousins, worgs speak their own language. Some can also speak Common and Goblin.

[liquidformat]

So even though they don't naturally have any abilities to make it work Hound Archons do have in there entries that they take Bronze Dragon mounts...

You might like Varags (MM5):
After exploring all of MM5, Varag is in MM4 for those looking for it...

And because I'm a horrible person, I'm now thinking of a race that's the result of Worg-Goblin crossbreeding, possibly with a vital intermediary of Lycanthropy.
to keep it thematic with the often comical origins of centaurs why not have a tauric goblin worg as the offspring :biggrin:

[Zombimode]

By the Monster Manual entry:

Your point? Worgs and goblins still can communicate since both speak goblin.

[Morphic tide]

Further the Goblin is more intelligent as the Worg, so it seems natural that they can convince em to be mounted by them. Because having a rider can be beneficial (Mounted Combat: prevent a successful attack against your mount once per turn with a ride roll). Finally intelligent mounts don't need special training, you only need to share a language for easy communication and commands.
Worgs have higher Wisdom and Charisma, meaning they're better at Sense Motive, Bluff, and Diplomacy by default. Int score at these very low levels has limited influence on such "face" functions. And Intelligent mounts do need special training, for all the ones actually spelled out as mounts in their own entries. Again, the Griffon has text specifically noting this. The Pegasus has text specifically noting this. To my awareness, every monster that has rules for buying it to specifically reliably get it as a mount has the text of needing trained for the task.

And also, y'know, only a few Worgs speak Goblin. It's essentially an available bonus language for them, not a default, despite the mentioned demographic thing.


There's the Hoary Hunter (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/hoaryHunter.htm) from the ELH which comes with its own unique mount and has several mounted combat feats.
Still no specific mounted features, and for some God-forsaken reason the CR 9, 102 HP, AC 23 Mount is the one with the proper defensive abilities and Astral Projection and Etherealness when we already have the Nightmare. But the overall package is a nice piece of work, in terms of general effects, for all that I have zero idea how it stacks up at its CR because Epic is a disjointed mess.


Githyanki (Polyhedron #159):
...Okay, that is a weird source, being the first issue rolled into Dungeon Magazine and actually a sort-of module about Githyanki. And not a single one of the PRCs or feats included actually support mounted combat, oddly enough, nor is there any statblock for the Githyanki Knights, so... It's just a worldbuilding bit.


Night Hag (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/nightHag.htm):
At-will Etherealness is a real nice thing for mounted combat, but somewhat let down by the Night Hag being caster-type. Though, as an Outsider, Night Hags are automatically proficient with all Martial weapons, so they can go ahead and grab a Lance, then switch Alertness for Mounted Combat or Trample. It's terribly off-brand, but a quite solid option. Redundant with the Nightmare also having an Etherealness SLA, but still solid.


Triton (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/triton.htm) - by the Monster Manual entry:
Oddly enough worse than a Goblin focused on the matter as it lacks a racial bonus to the skill or Dexterity. Matter of fact, Goblins are actually mislisted as the statblock forgets the +1 from Dexterity.

Sun Giant (Monster Manual II):
Literally does not even have the Ride skill, let alone any feats, making it a wholly informed attribute.


Your point? Worgs and goblins still can communicate since both speak goblin.
Some Worgs speak Goblin rather than it being an automatic language, and by appearances Goblins have to take Speak Language ranks to learn Worg since it isn't on their Bonus Language list. So for most Worg/Goblin pairs, there's a language gap, despite the Tribe group having at absolute least 2.5% Worg population and "typically" something like 5-10%. The Worgs aren't an insignificant demographic in the slightest, doubly so for being a core aspect of the Goblin military as they're at nearly a one-to-one ratio with the dedicated combatants, and are considerably outnumbered which tends to force cultural assimilation, but... Don't generally have a common language. Despite the explicit ability to.

It's an annoying RAW disfunction because by the rules there's absolutely nothing assuring a given Goblin Warband has any conventional communication between its Worgs and its Goblins.

[ShurikVch]

Your point? Worgs and goblins still can communicate since both speak goblin.
One more time:

More intelligent than their smaller cousins, worgs speak their own language. Some can also speak Common and Goblin.
Worgs aren't speak Goblin - they speak Worg
Those "some" mentioned in the quote are all Advanced Worgs: since Worgs have Int penalty - no bonus languages for them
Thus, the only way for a Worg to learn new language is to get new HD (or class level) and put their single skill point into Speak Language (Goblin)

EDIT:

Literally does not even have the Ride skill, let alone any feats, making it a wholly informed attribute.
Check the 3.5 update: Sun Giant have +16 Ride and Mounted Combat


...Okay, that is a weird source, being the first issue rolled into Dungeon Magazine and actually a sort-of module about Githyanki. And not a single one of the PRCs or feats included actually support mounted combat, oddly enough, nor is there any statblock for the Githyanki Knights, so...
Githyanki Dragon Knight (http://www.dracosaur.us/miniatures/685)

[loky1109]

Not all worgs speak Goblin, but all worgs are sentient. If any goblin can negotiate with animals via Handle Animal, with intelligent creature it can negotiate more more easy. Worg it is, human, or any other. You don't need speak on same language to communicate and work together.

[Zombimode]

Worgs aren't speak Goblin - they speak Worg
Those "some" mentioned in the quote are all Advanced Worgs: since Worgs have Int penalty - no bonus languages for them
Thus, the only way for a Worg to learn new language is to get new HD (or class level) and put their single skill point into Speak Language (Goblin)


They only would need to put skill points into Speak Language to learn any other languages then goblin.

With your reading the line that some worgs speak goblin may as well just not been there. As such I don't think it is a very plausible reading.

[ShurikVch]

They only would need to put skill points into Speak Language to learn any other languages then goblin.
RAW, please?..


With your reading the line that some worgs speak goblin may as well just not been there. As such I don't think it is a very plausible reading.
Some of Worgs are Advanced Worgs
Advanced Worgs are still Worgs
Nothing is wrong with my reading

[Thurbane]

After exploring all of MM5, Varag is in MM4 for those looking for it...

Thanks, went back and amended my typo.

It's funny that the Half-halfling/Half-blink Dog race (Blinklings) from Bastards and Bloodlines gets so much of a squick response, yet Varags are right there in official products. :smalltongue:

Maybe it's because they use the word "magical" to refer to the crossbreeding.

To be fair, B&B also has Elf/Eagles and Elf/Unicorns. :smallbiggrin:

@Morphic tide: if you are looking for monsters with innate abilities focused on enhancing their ability to be mounted combatants, I think we've exhausted most 3E options, and as you have commented, most are pretty lacklustre. If you are wanting a mounted monster encounter to be interesting and/or challenging, you may need to focus more on making it so with choice of mount, feats and gear.

[Gruftzwerg]

And Intelligent mounts do need special training, for all the ones actually spelled out as mounts in their own entries.
Sorry, I was misremembering the rule I wanted to point to:


Mounts with Intelligence scores of 5 or higher are more like NPCs than they are like traditional mounts. As a result, characters must use Diplomacy checks to negotiate what the mount will and will not do (see page 128, DMG). Once the character and mount reach an agreement, they still must train together. Training time is as given under the Handle Animal skill. Intelligent mounts may insist on special care, such as a hireling devoted to that specific mount, special food, or even a share of the party treasure.

You don't need Handle Animal to train intelligent mounts. You need to convince em (via Diplomacy) and then just train with em for the regular time Handle Animal would require (no additional checks needed).

[PraxisVetli]

What do you mean? Both goblins and worgs speak goblin.

I somehow read it wrong. Don't know what I read, but it definitely says that now that I go back.
I should sleep more often.

[ShurikVch]

Van Richten's Guide to the Mists have the Pale Rider

d20 Apocalypse - the literal Horsemen of the Apocalypse

"Enemy of My Enemy" adventure (of the Savage Tide adventure path) have encounter with Lemorian Lancers; Lemorian Lancer is a Stone Giant Juju Zombie Fighter 5 mounted on Bodak Tyrannosaurus; have +18 to Ride, and not just Mounted Combat, but also Ride-by Attack and Spirited Charge

Also,

...Okay, that is a weird source, being the first issue rolled into Dungeon Magazine and actually a sort-of module about Githyanki. And not a single one of the PRCs or feats included actually support mounted combat, oddly enough, nor is there any statblock for the Githyanki Knights, so... It's just a worldbuilding bit.
Monster Manual IV have the Githyanki Dragonrider feat

[Thurbane]

Right from 1E, Githyanki fluff has said they have a pact with a group of Red Dragons that act as mounts and allies.

Good pickup on that feat - I don't know that I'd ever noticed it before.

[Blackhawk748]

Actually they have a general +4 racial bonus to Ride and +2 Dexterity, Worgs are just the "suggested" example. Despite being CR 2 Intelligence 6 monsters. Why does a 1st-level Warrior have a CR 2 mount? Probably "Because Fantasy", a bog-standard Wolf isn't "special" enough... The Goblin organization entry also brings up the question of what Worgs think of Dire Wolves. Like, is it the equivalent of them being stared down by an 800 pound gorilla? And there's an issue here in that neither Worgs nor Dire Wolves have the mount text, implying that they have the unspecified dysfunction of an untrained Griffon. Though at least the Warbeast template exists for Dire Wolves.

This also has a major bit of weirdness with Worgs having their own language, as by all appearances their largest populations by far are members of Goblin tribes. So them having the anatomical ability to speak Goblin would indicate most Worgs should speak it as they're surrounded by other speakers, or alternatively such Goblin tribes have widespread fluency in Worg, or most realistically such tribes speak a third language that's a creole of the historic Worg and Goblin languages.

There is, however, no unusual mechanical abilities behind it. Just a big Ride check.

And because I'm a horrible person, I'm now thinking of a race that's the result of Worg-Goblin crossbreeding, possibly with a vital intermediary of Lycanthropy.

I always assumed that Goblins who ride Works just learned the language to make it all easier.

[Thurbane]

Remembered one more: Wild Hunter (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20070601a) - Mounted Combat, Ride-By Attack, Spirited Charge, Trample, and whopping +32 on Ride!..

Ninja'd by over 2 days?


Doesn't seem to be a large monster niche, but two sprang immediately to mind:


Narzugon devil (FC2 p.125)
Wild Hunter (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20070601a) (EttDP p.41).


[edit] Thought of another:


Spectral Rider (MM5 p.160)




You might like Varags (MM4):