3.P - Shadows In The Real World

[unseenmage]

So the plot has a 3.P creature wandering into our world through the Plane of Shadow.

It occurred to me the other night that what was supposed to be a charming reverse isekai adventure turns into survival horror real quick if even a single CR 3 shadow crosses too.

Assuming this worst case scenario and that the 3.P creature in question is capable of making any mundane, magic, or tech item given enough resources what's the best case scenario for preventing a shadowpocalypse scenario?

I'm the GM, the writer really, and the creature in question is a homebrew non humanoid construct (because of course it is). Rules the tale is based on are 3.5 plus Pathfinder.
While the creature's plane of origin is Golarion (PF) it passes through the 3.x Plane of Shadow.

It shows up with zero equipment and no class levels, though a template lets it act as an arcane caster enough to qualify for item creation feats.

The real world location it arrives in is typical modern civilization. Think small city. Only a handful of all night businesses. Continental, no seaport, no large lakes, no major river.

To be honest I need to rework the original creature and just havnt gotten around to it or I would present the stats.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

A repeating trap of Chained wish/celestial brilliance that creates repeating traps that create repeating traps that create repeating traps (ad infinitum) to create more of itself. Each trap affects water or air molecules within 10', turning them into traps of Chained wish/celestial brilliance, which are primed to release the celestial brilliance effect any time an undead creature or evil outsider is near, but otherwise don't do much aside from creating more traps. (You don't want an invasion of balors, succubi, or even imps in the real world, either.)

[icefractal]

That's going to be nasty - I'd thought that Shadows were vulnerable to sunlight, but on checking them again they aren't - just easier to see in bright light. Without anyone being able to even hurt them*, they could spread through a city in very short order.

They're limited to 16 mph, so it's possible to outrun them, but probably not to evacuate every city in their path, especially since they can and probably would split up. On the plus side, the Shadows don't know anything about the world either, and might not immediately spread out from their original area.

So unless the initial entry point is fairly unpopulated and the protagonist has a chance to nip the Shadowpocalpyse in the bud, they probably will need some kind of exponential/replicating solution like MaxiDuRarity proposes.


However, for that particular example, doesn't chaining Wish-traps that way have an entropy factor which would inhibit exponential replication?

You make the initial trap as Wish with N extra XP. When it creates another trap, the base cost will consume some of that budget, so the new trap only has N-x XP, the next generation has N-2x, and so forth. Depending on how much the initial N is, you still may be able to cover the planet, but it's not guaranteed.

(Leaving aside the question of how you get that much XP; maybe a Distilled Joy farm?)


* If we assume that holy water = holy water, they can be hurt, but I don't think it changes things that much. They can still hide inside walls/floors and pop out to quickly disable the people with the water, and every person who falls becomes another Shadow which takes on average four flasks to destroy.

[Blackhawk748]

No,because using it from a self resetting trap doesn't use up more XP. It's why self resetting traps get silly.

The other solution would be to make items of various Anti Undead spells and start handing them out to the military, though that may be slow.

Actually... An item of At Will Magic Missile would be pretty great here

[icefractal]

The original trap (T0) always makes second-generation traps of the same strength, yes. However, unless the traps are mobile and self-directed, that's not going to cover the whole world, and even if they were it would take a long time. For exponential growth, you're relying on traps making traps which make traps which make traps, etc. And in that case, each subsequent generation has a smaller budget.

Weapons for active use are a lot cheaper, but do have to contend with the fact that the Shadows can cruise along just below the surface of the ground. Some method to detect them is essential.

[Psyren]

Without magic or alchemy (or deities), there's no way to kill it (incorporeal) and therefore it will spread until it annihilates the planet in a grey goo scenario. Pretty boring.

If it can arrive from the Plane of Shadow though, other things might be able to as well. Travel the other way should be possible too. If you could get someone pious enough into the Plane of Shadow (a normal magic plane) or one of the planes connected to it, then you'll get a cleric or adept, and with that, a means of fighting back.

[Maat Mons]

To be fair, a typical D&D world is ill-equipped to avoid obliteration at the hands of Shadows too.

They'd have people who can deal with Shadows, sure. But the Shadows are Int 6 creatures, and are easily smart enough ambush defenseless targets and flee when things are unfavorable. And fleeing is darn easy for them, since they can just incorporeal themselves into the ground.

Basically, you'd have an every-expanding force of shadows using guerilla tactics and a very small number of high-level characters who even have the capacity to hurt them. Those few defenders cant be everywhere, and the Shadows' first choice will always be to snag an easy meal rather than fight a powerful opponent.

[Blackhawk748]

There is one issue for Shadows going into the ground, they can't see. So ya they can just flew, but they don't know what's above them when they do so. So it's really only good for swinging through walls or doors or just blind running away.

Also, while then being Int 6 means that they're pretty smart by animal standards, they are pretty dumb otherwise, so tricking them into unfavorable situations should be fairly straightforward.

But yes, get a Cleric or anyone who can Turn Undead and start blasting

[Psyren]

To be fair, a typical D&D world is ill-equipped to avoid obliteration at the hands of Shadows too.

They'd have people who can deal with Shadows, sure. But the Shadows are Int 6 creatures, and are easily smart enough ambush defenseless targets and flee when things are unfavorable. And fleeing is darn easy for them, since they can just incorporeal themselves into the ground.

Basically, you'd have an every-expanding force of shadows using guerilla tactics and a very small number of high-level characters who even have the capacity to hurt them. Those few defenders cant be everywhere, and the Shadows' first choice will always be to snag an easy meal rather than fight a powerful opponent.

Even if you're right that Int 6 is enough to use organized guerrilla tactics - a claim I doubt - D&D worlds also have divinations and Portfolio Sense, against which Shadows have no protection. Anything they do that might result in real damage will show up on one or both.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

If we assume that holy water = holy water, they can be hurt, but I don't think it changes things that much. They can still hide inside walls/floors and pop out to quickly disable the people with the water, and every person who falls becomes another Shadow which takes on average four flasks to destroy.

Modern plumbing might come in handy here; get the reservoir/water system sufficiently blessed and suddenly every house has easy access to anti-Shadow weaponry, and walls/floors with piping become actively harmful to Shadows... with no way for them to identify which walls are dangerous, making them unlikely to abuse incorporeality except as a last resort.

How long would it take to convert that much water to holy water? Could it be done before the Shadows hit critical mass?

On that note, Shadows probably aren't actually that interested in expanding and converting on average, based on the fact that, you know, they haven't assimilated large sections of the Material Plane. That makes Shadows into individual horror monsters, as opposed to apocalyptic plagues.

[unseenmage]

Modern plumbing might come in handy here; get the reservoir/water system sufficiently blessed and suddenly every house has easy access to anti-Shadow weaponry, and walls/floors with piping become actively harmful to Shadows... with no way for them to identify which walls are dangerous, making them unlikely to abuse incorporeality except as a last resort.

How long would it take to convert that much water to holy water? Could it be done before the Shadows hit critical mass?

On that note, Shadows probably aren't actually that interested in expanding and converting on average, based on the fact that, you know, they haven't assimilated large sections of the Material Plane. That makes Shadows into individual horror monsters, as opposed to apocalyptic plagues.
I don't hate this idea.
And letting holy water = Holy Water is a fine idea and fits with some other elements I'd hoped to incorporate.

Even if it's just house by house one blessed sprinkler system later and you might even have a shadow or two destroyed.


As to the second point, what DOES the RAW day about the behaviors of Shadows? Do we have a Dragon article anywhere about Shadow behavior?

Do they prefer solitude or comradeship? Are they opportunistic or calculating? Etc.

it's been a while since I've even read their non SRD book entry.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Would modern movement detection systems via lasers work on shadows? Because I imagine tying those to sprinkler systems filled with actual blessed water (as opposed to the snake oil you can find on the internet or elsewhere, 'cuz you know that's going to happen) is going to be a thing soon enough.

Shadows are visible, after all. Perhaps finding a wavelength that shadows trip but living creatures don't would be quite useful. Also, buildings, appliances, and electronics are going to have to be built to handle regular indoor showers.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by unseenmage
Even if it's just house by house one blessed sprinkler system later and you might even have a shadow or two destroyed.

Or hit up the local fire station, and you have the Holy Fire Hose. :smalltongue:

[Blackhawk748]

I'm not gonna get super specific because of board rules obviously, but I don't think blessing water really takes all that much time, so you could probably have a whole bunch of Holy Water quite quickly.

Also yes, a Tanker Truck full of Holy Water would be stupidly helpful as would really good squirt guns.

[Palanan]

Even better, a truck with a mosquito fogger. Just drive through the neighborhoods drenching everything with blessed mist.

[Maat Mons]

I think Int 6 is plenty enough to look for easy meals and run from danger. After all, Animals have Int 1 or 2, and this is pretty much standard behavior for them.

I'm not aware of any official descriptions of Shadow behavior. All I can find is that the Monster Manual says they can be found individually, or in groups of up to 11, and Libris Mortis says they have an Inescapable Craving for inflicting Strength drain.



Death Ward completely negates a Shadow's only offensive ability. It can be granted to a large number of people for a year at a time with Hallow (or Unhallow). The Pathfinder version of Darkskull can have a Death Ward effect included. It seems a little weird to fight Undead with an Undead-boosting magic item, but there you have it.

Incorporeal Undead wink out of existence in an Antimagic Field. If you can set up a permanent one somehow, and put a delicious-looking human in the middle, you could probably trick a few Shadows into walking right into it.

By D&D rules, making Holy Water takes 5 pounds of powdered silver per pint. But if you're waiving that requirement, I guess a big stack of bottled Holy Water could create a barrier that a Shadow was disinclined to pass.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Would modern movement detection systems via lasers work on shadows? Because I imagine tying those to sprinkler systems filled with actual blessed water (as opposed to the snake oil you can find on the internet or elsewhere, 'cuz you know that's going to happen) is going to be a thing soon enough.

Shadows are visible, after all. Perhaps finding a wavelength that shadows trip but living creatures don't would be quite useful. Also, buildings, appliances, and electronics are going to have to be built to handle regular indoor showers.Actually, if lasers are blocked by shadows, since they're visible, you could fairly easily come up with a system that checks with both laser light and sound pulses to determine if something is corporeal or not. Attempts at echolocation would pass through an incorporeal creature, such as a shadow, while laser light would be blocked by it. Meanwhile, corporeal creatures would block both. So if the system registers blockage of light but not sound, it trips the sprinkler system, and you spray the shadow with blessed water (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/blessWater.htm). (Note, only water blessed with this spell actually works, so the stuff they make at your local synagogue or whatever wouldn't.)

[TheTeaMustFlow]

I don't hate this idea.
And letting holy water = Holy Water is a fine idea and fits with some other elements I'd hoped to incorporate.

Even if it's just house by house one blessed sprinkler system later and you might even have a shadow or two destroyed.


As to the second point, what DOES the RAW day about the behaviors of Shadows? Do we have a Dragon article anywhere about Shadow behavior?

Do they prefer solitude or comradeship? Are they opportunistic or calculating? Etc.

it's been a while since I've even read their non SRD book entry.

From the monster manual, their 'combat' description is just: "shadows lurk in dark places, waiting for living prey to happen by."

In contrast, a greater shadow is stated to be more dangerous "because of its increased damage and its hit-and-run tactics". Meaning that normal shadows do not use such tactics. Their combat description gives a bit more detail:

"A greater shadow uses stealth and cunning in combat. A favorite tactic is to lie in wait, almost completely concealed by walls or floor, then swoop out, make an incorporeal touch attack, and retreat back into a solid object without allowing a return attack."

We can again infer then that a normal shadow would not use this tactic.

[Rynjin]

Am I misunderstanding the OP? Is this Shadowpocalypse thread #39434 or are you asking about the theoretical capabilities of your not-a-Shadow homebrew Construct race from the Plane of Shadows? Because those are two very different things.

[Maat Mons]

I thought his homebrew construct was fighting against the Shadows?

[Rynjin]

Ahhh, I see. Seems like a simple answer; he makes a lockpick out of a paperclip and a rubberband, steals a +1 sword from the local blacksmith, and kills the singular Shadow that came over. There's like a million answers to this question and all work about as well as the others.

[unseenmage]

Ahhh, I see. Seems like a simple answer; he makes a lockpick out of a paperclip and a rubberband, steals a +1 sword from the local blacksmith, and kills the singular Shadow that came over. There's like a million answers to this question and all work about as well as the others.

Construct comes to our world through the Plane of Shadow.

But what if a Shadow slips through too?

No +anything swords here. So how fast can a super crafter Construct stem the tide of suddenly shadowpacalyose in the modern world?

The Construct in question can craft anything mundane, magic, or PF technology (Magic that works in antimagic basically but with a super science veneer).

[Psyren]

Incorporeal Undead wink out of existence in an Antimagic Field.

Wait - does this apply to dead magic planes too? Because if so, they are completely harmless here. Either there's no magic, therefore they stay phased out indefinitely, or there is, and we have a means of fighting back by being pious/studious enough.

[Tzardok]

I don't think so. That's a special rider in Antimagic Field.

But! Incorporeal touch attacks are supernatural abilities and therefore don't work on planes with dead magic.

[SquidFighter]

Just lure it to Africa, where the rain is blessed.

[unseenmage]

Wait - does this apply to dead magic planes too? Because if so, they are completely harmless here. Either there's no magic, therefore they stay phased out indefinitely, or there is, and we have a means of fighting back by being pious/studious enough.

Last I checked dead magic planes inherit directly from the antimagic field spell so yeah.
Guess thus thread was much ado about nothing.

Any other nasties on the Plane of Shadow that I should be concerned about wandering through to this world?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Last I checked dead magic planes inherit directly from the antimagic field spell so yeah.
Guess thus thread was much ado about nothing.

Any other nasties on the Plane of Shadow that I should be concerned about wandering through to this world?Well, the construct could infect Earth with magic when it arrives. That, or as the solar system moves through the galaxy, it enters and exits dead magic zones, and his arrival coincides with leaving a zone and the return of magic.

Those old myths have to come from somewhere, right?

[Psyren]

I don't think so. That's a special rider in Antimagic Field.

But! Incorporeal touch attacks are supernatural abilities and therefore don't work on planes with dead magic.

Exactly. Even if they don't wink out here, they can't drain anybody.

(You have a Shadow connected to you RIGHT NOW)

[icefractal]

Why assume the real world is dead magic, rather than simply not connected to any other planes and not (previously) having had any?

It's plausible either way, but only the latter is useful for the purpose of this thought experiment.

[Psyren]

Why assume the real world is dead magic, rather than simply not connected to any other planes and not (previously) having had any?

It's plausible either way, but only the latter is useful for the purpose of this thought experiment.

Because the thought experiment is predicated on the idea that "even a single shadow" is functionally impossible to fight. With access to any magic (even level 1), that's no longer the case.

[Blackhawk748]

Why assume the real world is dead magic, rather than simply not connected to any other planes and not (previously) having had any?

It's plausible either way, but only the latter is useful for the purpose of this thought experiment.

Pretty sure it's because our plane has been explicitly visited in DnD materials in the past and it's a Dead Magic Plane.

[Zanos]

Assuming the shadow has normal access to it's abilities, you can't really harm it with anything in the real world. There are 'mundane' special materials that can harm incorporeal creatures, but they obviously don't exist in reality. Holy water is one option as mentioned, but isn't very effective. Incorporeal creatures however, must remain adjacent to the exterior of a surface while passing through solid objects. Therefore, they cannot pass through a barrier if it's more than 5ft thick. Maybe some mortals could...reach the relative safety of the large underground Vaults? :smalltongue:

But that does bear a question, how will the shadows be run? A lot of people look at shadows and just see their statblocks, but the normal behavior of shadows is not to fly around at maximum speed looking for population centers to devour. Shadows are ambush predators, that lurk in the darkness and ambush passerby. They do not actively hunt; they are the remnants of the soul of a living thing drained of all vital force. You're more likely to see them meandering in the dark corners of their former homes than actively hunting, unless someone has taken control of them and ordered them to do otherwise.

If they are behaving as normal, a single shadow in the real world could make a small area uninhabitable, but won't likely doom the world or a country. So you would have time for your character to build up some anti-undead measures. A wand or something of command undead would be a good choice to charm a shadow for 1/day per cl, gaining some degree of control over it and all it's spawn. Magic missile would be a decent level 1 option to at least damage them reliably. If the shadow turns up in a big city it will be a lot worse than it shows up in the middle of nowhere.


To be fair, a typical D&D world is ill-equipped to avoid obliteration at the hands of Shadows too.
Not really. All you need is a mid level caster to use a divination to tell them which shadow is at the top of the pecking order, then he just teleports to it and uses command undead or whatever to tell it to order all the other shadows to present their necks. The commanded shadow won't do anything suicidal, but spawn are completely enslaved to it, so telling it to order it's spawn to not defend themselves should be fine; undead have no love for their spawn and routinely order them to do suicidal stuff anyway. Once the spawn are dealt with, just kill the last shadow with your favorite force damage spell or bonk it with a ghost touch weapon.

So that's a 5th level teleport, a 2nd level command...maybe a 4th level scrying or a 5th level contact other plane to get some information about the shadow? Seems like a 9th level wizard or maybe a cleric could deal with it in a day or two. If you have a handy wu jen they have a planar binding variant that works directly on incorporeal undead as well. If you don't have mid level casters handy it gets harder, but I believe there are a few special materials that strike incorporeal undead as magic weapons, despite not being magic otherwise, that are relatively cheap. So even without magic, you aren't completely defenseless.

It gets more complicated if the shadows are deliberately freeing their own spawn to prevent a single point of failure, but shadows are intelligence 6. They can understand language, but that's two standard deviations off average intelligence. They really shouldn't be making any complex plans. Realistically a competent high level military commander is probably between int 14-16; a shadow probably struggles to understand abstract concepts like basic algebra, and is most likely pushing or under the line to be classified as mentally impaired. A shadow is as dumb to an orc as an orc is to a human. You could have an extraordinary shadow with a better stat array, but then it's still only as smart as the average human...who is not a very good planner or commander.

This isn't to say that the shadows couldn't do a ton of damage before being neutralized, but it's far from the end of the world. Also consider the above point, shadows are not naturally hunters; so someone would have to be compelling them to behave this way.

[icefractal]

Shadows are ambush predators, that lurk in the darkness and ambush passerby. They do not actively hunt; they are the remnants of the soul of a living thing drained of all vital force. You're more likely to see them meandering in the dark corners of their former homes than actively hunting, unless someone has taken control of them and ordered them to do otherwise.I don't think I agree with this - Libris Mortis describes them as hungry to drain people, having a powerful craving to do so. That doesn't sound like they'd be content to linger in one spot unless prey was coming there regularly.

I wasn't assuming any kind of advanced tactics, but if you just take some very simple ones like:
See people --> sneak up and drain them
No people --> look for obvious signs of people, like houses and lights
No signs --> wander around randomly, preferring dark areas
Getting hurt --> go underground

Then that's enough to be a pretty huge menace if they ever get into a city. I'd agree they probably don't quickly move en-mass to the next city after that one's empty, so if they hit an isolated area there'd be some breathing room. But on the other hand, randomly spreading out like that means it's difficult to tell when you've really dealt with them - there could always be some random one lurking in an abandoned shed somewhere, with the potential to start the whole cycle again.


Edit: actually the whole thing of Shadows having control over their spawn is weird when combined with a lack of organized behavior. If Shadows just want to eat people indiscriminately, what are they even telling their spawn to do? Come with them? That's just more competition for the food supply. Go the opposite way? That works ok, but it's not really a benefit. Force their spawn to travel behind them and act as a reserve force which doesn't get to eat very often, in case strong foes are encountered? That's pretty mean, but they are evil ... however, since most Shadows are under control, this wouldn't fit with their established behavior. Maybe just let them go do whatever, with the option of calling "dibs" if they ever happen to be hunting the same prey.

[Zanos]

I don't think I agree with this - Libris Mortis describes them as hungry to drain people, having a powerful craving to do so. That doesn't sound like they'd be content to linger in one spot unless prey was coming there regularly.
I was referring to the MM description of their tactics and behavior. LM probably describes how they feel about eating, but I would say that's different to how they actually achieve those goals.



I wasn't assuming any kind of advanced tactics, but if you just take some very simple ones like:
See people --> sneak up and drain them
No people --> look for obvious signs of people, like houses and lights
No signs --> wander around randomly, preferring dark areas
Getting hurt --> go underground
This seems reasonable to me, I was more referring to shadows taking specific countermeasures against spellcasters by deliberately breaking their own chain of command.



Then that's enough to be a pretty huge menace if they ever get into a city. I'd agree they probably don't quickly move en-mass to the next city after that one's empty, so if they hit an isolated area there'd be some breathing room. But on the other hand, randomly spreading out like that means it's difficult to tell when you've really dealt with them - there could always be some random one lurking in an abandoned shed somewhere, with the potential to start the whole cycle again.

Agreed on both counts. I don't think a shadow will stay in the same place forever, but it also isn't beelining from place to place. It will move on if there is no prey in an area, but that could take some time. If you have access to divinations and persistence you could hunt down the survivors, but you'd have to destroy every shadow in existence to remove the threat forever.


Edit: actually the whole thing of Shadows having control over their spawn is weird when combined with a lack of organized behavior. If Shadows just want to eat people indiscriminately, what are they even telling their spawn to do? Come with them? That's just more competition for the food supply. Go the opposite way? That works ok, but it's not really a benefit. Force their spawn to travel behind them and act as a reserve force which doesn't get to eat very often, in case strong foes are encountered? That's pretty mean, but they are evil ... however, since most Shadows are under control, this wouldn't fit with their established behavior. Maybe just let them go do whatever, with the option of calling "dibs" if they ever happen to be hunting the same prey.
I did review LM since you mentioned it and found this:

Undead of low intelligence (such as shadows) that have the ability to create spawn do so almost by accident. They do not create spawn for any higher purpose but as a consequence of the curse that gives them life. Sometimes undead of low intelligence even come to regard the spawn they have created as competitors for the same living resources, resulting in conflict.
Seems like according to LM, as long as an outbreak of low intelligence spawning undead isn't headed up by someone smarter, there's a good chance it will put a stop to itself through infighting.

[icefractal]

Seems like according to LM, as long as an outbreak of low intelligence spawning undead isn't headed up by someone smarter, there's a good chance it will put a stop to itself through infighting. Interesting - it doesn't exactly make sense with the "have control over their spawn" part though, since the progenitor Shadow could tell the others to **** off. "Sibling" or "cousin" shadows could come into conflict though.

It occurs to me that if Shadows mainly regard their spawn as a nuisance, you might get a pattern of alternating behavior between roaming and lurking -
Shadow 1: In the course of wandering around, makes a spawn, and tells it to stay put so it won't follow and be competition.
Shadow 2: Is now stuck in that area, but eventually a traveller comes by and gets eaten. The new spawn is told to "bugger off".
Shadow 3: Is a wandering Shadow like its grandparent, and will probably make more stationary Shadows.

Since the wandering ones find more prey, the majority of Shadows are stationary, but the majority of people killed is by the wandering ones. When a wandering Shadow dies, a bunch of its stationary spawn become mobile.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Because the thought experiment is predicated on the idea that "even a single shadow" is functionally impossible to fight. With access to any magic (even level 1), that's no longer the case.

Sure, but just because there isn't any magic on Earth right now doesn't make it dead-magic - it just means there isn't any yet (in fact, it kinda can't be dead magic if the construct is going to be a magic item crafter). And it would probably take a decade or so to train the first wizard.

[Psyren]

And it would probably take a decade or so to train the first wizard.

Who said it has to be a wizard? I'll dedicate myself to a philosophy and be a cleric, easy.
Besides, as pointed out, in both 3.5 and Pathfinder Earth is considered to have the Dead Magic trait unless we're homebrewing.

[Rynjin]

Pathfinder Earth definitely is not Dead Magic, otherwise Razputin wouldn't be an Oracle.

[Zanos]

Who said it has to be a wizard? I'll dedicate myself to a philosophy and be a cleric, easy.
Besides, as pointed out, in both 3.5 and Pathfinder Earth is considered to have the Dead Magic trait unless we're homebrewing.
I think it is pretty safe to assume that Earth is not dead magic in this context considering that was not part of the scenario outlined by the OP and for the OP to function we have to assume it's not.


Interesting - it doesn't exactly make sense with the "have control over their spawn" part though, since the progenitor Shadow could tell the others to **** off. "Sibling" or "cousin" shadows could come into conflict though.

It occurs to me that if Shadows mainly regard their spawn as a nuisance, you might get a pattern of alternating behavior between roaming and lurking -
Shadow 1: In the course of wandering around, makes a spawn, and tells it to stay put so it won't follow and be competition.
Shadow 2: Is now stuck in that area, but eventually a traveller comes by and gets eaten. The new spawn is told to "bugger off".
Shadow 3: Is a wandering Shadow like its grandparent, and will probably make more stationary Shadows.

Since the wandering ones find more prey, the majority of Shadows are stationary, but the majority of people killed is by the wandering ones. When a wandering Shadow dies, a bunch of its stationary spawn become mobile.
One possible interpretation. I think it's also possible that Shadows simple don't really consider long term when spawning, commanding spawn, or freeing spawn, and come into conflict with them down the line.

[Psyren]

I think it is pretty safe to assume that Earth is not dead magic in this context considering that was not part of the scenario outlined by the OP and for the OP to function we have to assume it's not.


Pathfinder Earth definitely is not Dead Magic, otherwise Razputin wouldn't be an Oracle.

Great! Not only magic but oracles. That shadow is screwed.

[Dalmosh]

Depending how you interpret "force", which does interact with incorporeal entities, there is some very expensive prototype tech that might at least be able to shield vehicles and important buildings, especially aided with someone who can craft magic items.
https://www.sciencealert.com/boeing-has-patented-a-plasma-force-field-to-protect-against-shock-waves

What's the line between electricity and force? Probably up to you to decide.

[Quertus]

The easiest answer is to craft a Scroll of Sending, and use it (you can use it, right?) to get the attention of Quertus (my signature academia mage for whom this account is named), or anyone else willing and able to help.


Because the thought experiment is predicated on the idea that "even a single shadow" is functionally impossible to fight. With access to any magic (even level 1), that's no longer the case.

Jade is your friend.


Pretty sure it's because our plane has been explicitly visited in DnD materials in the past and it's a Dead Magic Plane.


Who said it has to be a wizard? I'll dedicate myself to a philosophy and be a cleric, easy.
Besides, as pointed out, in both 3.5 and Pathfinder Earth is considered to have the Dead Magic trait unless we're homebrewing.


Pathfinder Earth definitely is not Dead Magic, otherwise Razputin wouldn't be an Oracle.

Citation needed on Earth being dead magic. Canonically, it had varied from "low" to "normal" magic, with Elminster and… Baba Yaga… and Razputin?… all visiting / using magic on Earth.

[unseenmage]

...

Citation needed on Earth being dead magic. Canonically, it had varied from "low" to "normal" magic, with Elminster and… Baba Yaga… and Razputin?… all visiting / using magic on Earth.

PF's Baba Yaga and Rasputin are both from an alternate Earth with magic.

Elminster visited a dead magic Earth iirc, he's just so very very cool that he overcame such triviality.


For my purposes, and the purposes of this thread, Earth is dead magic and the homebrew Construct will first use PF tech to achieve wealth and superpowers, later adding magic and portals etc using PF tech as the driving force.

So I was kicking myself a bit for not recalling that incorporeal creatures wink out in antimagic (again, dead magic inherits from the antimagic field spell). I swear I used to know this kind of stuff. One wonders where all that info goes when its forgotten.

[Jack_Simth]

So I was kicking myself a bit for not recalling that incorporeal creatures wink out in antimagic (again, dead magic inherits from the antimagic field spell). I swear I used to know this kind of stuff. One wonders where all that info goes when its forgotten.Pathfinder removed that clause from AMF, incidentally. They had it at the initial publish, but dropped it a few revisions in.