Gaining flight as a martial without magic items

[LucasG234]

Hello. I am soon going to be joining a game where "specific magic items will be hard to obtain." For my character, I want to play a warblade, but I would also really love to be able to fly during combat and outside of it as well if possible. What is a way to gain flight at low cost, with earlier being better? Racial requirements are fine since I have not finalized my character yet, but something that synergizes well with a warblade would be best.

[Zanos]

For no level adjustment, Raptorans and Dragonborn with the Wings aspect can both naturally fly. You can only glide until you have a certain number of hit die, and the duration is limited until later levels, but it should be enough for most combat encounters.

Dragonborn can be applied on top of any race and loses the features, but retains ability score adjustments and also gains -2 dex +2 con, so it's decent for most martial characters. Pairs well with orc or water orc, for a net stat adjustment of 4 str/con, -2 dex/int/wis/cha.

Raptoran has no stat adjustments.

If your character is Evil or can make a DC 15 will save consistently, such as with moment of perfect mind, you could get a fiendish wings graft for 10k. Grafts are not technically magic items, but you'd have to ask your DM if they're available.

Do you have any idea about the rest of the party composition? If you have spellcasters you could just ask them to cast it on you.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Warforged are immune to fatigue and a dragonborn warforged doesn't have to wait before it can fly. Plus, warforged lose almost nothing from becoming dragonborn; a bit of Dex, their slam attack, and their body armor (which normally takes a feat to remove). They keep everything else, since they keep the construct type and living construct subtype (and everything that both of those grant you, which is almost all of a warforged's goodies).

So you get flight and other goods right away, and you lose very, very little in return.

You could also enhance your skin as a psychoactive skin, as per the Ancestral Relic feat. Get a psychoactive skin of proteus at later levels, but this is level-dependent. Not that you couldn't do both, mind.

[Zanos]

While it isn't directly stated as a requirement, Dragonborn of Bahamaut are stated multiple times in RotD to be humanoids before their transformation. I don't think it can be applied to warforged.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

While it isn't directly stated as a requirement, Dragonborn of Bahamaut are stated multiple times in RotD to be humanoids before their transformation. I don't think it can be applied to warforged.Except you keep your original type and subtype, and there are no racial restrictions that prevent a warforged from becoming one. The references to humanoids are bad editing and stupidity of dev bias that "only humans* can be PCs; everything else is a monster" despite that clearly not being the case.


Prerequisites: In order to be accepted as a suitable candidate, the supplicant must be non-evil and have an Intelligence score of at least 3






*Elves, dwarves, etc are all basically humans with the serial numbers filed off; honestly, there's little to no difference between an elf and a slight, sickly, nimble, effeminate twinkly boy with an ego the size of Arvandor, or a dwarf and a gruff, short Scotsman with a crippling alcohol addiction.

[Zanos]

The dragonborn children of Bahamut are a unique race in that they are not born; they are reborn. Each one enters the world as a half ling, an elf, a human, or a member of some other humanoid race with all that race’s propensities and traits.
You can selectively read the book if you want. But this is also what it says.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

You can selectively read the book if you want. But this is also what it says.Which is not backed up by any rules, including the actual prereqs, which I quoted.

Sure, you can be a humanoid. But nothing requires you to be.

[Zanos]

Which is not backed up by any rules, including the actual prereqs, which I quoted.
I don't see a label that says that what I quoted is not rules.


Sure, you can be a humanoid. But nothing requires you to be.
It says "each one" enters the world a humanoid. That statement would be false if there were warforged dragonborn.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I don't see a label that says that what I quoted is not rules.


It says "each one" enters the world a humanoid. That statement would be false if there were warforged dragonborn.And yet the actual prereqs are very clearly stated. "Humanoid" is not one of them. So the fluffy parts say that they're humanoids, but the prereqs leave it open to others. That, and you explicitly keep your type, even if you are apparently also humanoid. Or something.

The editing really is crap.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Also from RotD, the (Improved) Dragon Wings feats will get you the same deal.

You can combine this with Dragonborn if you want an aspect other than wings, too. This works well if you have some bonus feats you don't care about; at the time of the transformation, you can trade any one feat you have for a 1st level only feat that requires the (dragonblood) subtype, such as Dragon Wings or Dragon Tail.

[Thurbane]

Anyone mentioned Unseelie Fey template, from Dragon Compendium?

It's a bit cheesy - you can get powerful abilities for an allegedly LA +0 template.

Actually, not that great for a Warblade: -2 Str, -2 Con, +2 Dex, +2 Cha; and an innate vulnerability to iron and steel.

[Darg]

Open Least Chakra (feet) + Shape Soulmeld (Airstep Sandals)

Let's you fly with perfect maneuverability. You can get the soulmeld at any time, but opening the chakra requires CL 6th. You don't even need essentia to invest in it, but you will only be able to move 10ft at a time if you don't.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Wendigo is a very cool template if you don't mind a) being Chaotic Evil and b) spending +4 LA. (That drops down to +2 LA if you use the LA Assignment Thread's value). 120ft (perfect) fly speed is the cream of the crop for flight (I think it might be literally the best published), and you also get a decent bite attack, Regeneration, either the ability to turn incorporeal at-will or wind walk at-will (not actually sure what the precedent for interpreting that power is), and some other, more minor tricks and features.

[Beni-Kujaku]

And yet the actual prereqs are very clearly stated. "Humanoid" is not one of them. So the fluffy parts say that they're humanoids, but the prereqs leave it open to others. That, and you explicitly keep your type, even if you are apparently also humanoid. Or something.

The editing really is crap.

Grandiose! So the rules allow it by not explicitly forbidding it, but it makes no sense in lore, was never seen, is hinted several times to not be possible, and is quite clearly not what was intended. I'm sure any DM will gladly accept that!
So, it's said three times in the fluff that only humanoids can become dragonborn, then that you keep your type and are an humanoid. But it doesn't say in the prerequisite paragraph explicitly that you have to be Humanoid. The most obvious thing here is of course that everything else is bad editing, and not that they just forgot "Humanoid" in the prerequisites.
This is not a Theoretical Optimization thread, MaxiDuRaritry, it's a real person wanting help for a real game. Please understand that those are not the same and that, in one case, you should try to follow the spirit of the rules instead of the letter of it.



(Also, in this particular case, the rules do forbid dragonborn warforged. You need to sleep for 24 hours for the ritual of rebirth, and constructs do not sleep. Kinda off-topic, but there's that.)

[ciopo]

If the flying doesn't necessarily have to be personal and a mount can suffice, you can make do with the wild cohort feat. Earliest for a large size mount would be a dire eagle, unlocked at 10th level.

[Metastachydium]

If you want crazy movement speeds for free, look no farther than Oriental Adventures (if that's an allowed source)! Sparrow/crane hengeyokai (+2 DEX -2 WIS) gives you a 20 ft. (average) fly speed which you can make 20 ft. (good) the moment you take Improved Flight (CAdv). It's not much, but again: it's for free!

[MaxiDuRaritry]

The phylactery of change from the A&EG is only 11k, and it allows you to polymorph into one form a day, but you can use it all day long, as well as change back and forth at will. So choose something with flight and halfway decent stats that's at or below your ECL and is within one size category of yourself, such as a gargoyle, then use that to fly when you need it. If the stats are lower than yours, use the phylactery when you need to fly and stop using it when you need to enter groundbound combat.


Grandiose! So the rules allow it by not explicitly forbidding it, but it makes no sense in lore, was never seen, is hinted several times to not be possible, and is quite clearly not what was intended. I'm sure any DM will gladly accept that!
So, it's said three times in the fluff that only humanoids can become dragonborn, then that you keep your type and are an humanoid. But it doesn't say in the prerequisite paragraph explicitly that you have to be Humanoid. The most obvious thing here is of course that everything else is bad editing, and not that they just forgot "Humanoid" in the prerequisites.
This is not a Theoretical Optimization thread, MaxiDuRaritry, it's a real person wanting help for a real game. Please understand that those are not the same and that, in one case, you should try to follow the spirit of the rules instead of the letter of it.

(Also, in this particular case, the rules do forbid dragonborn warforged. You need to sleep for 24 hours for the ritual of rebirth, and constructs do not sleep. Kinda off-topic, but there's that.)Prereqs specifically tell you what you can and can't use to enter a template. If a condition is not in the list of prereqs, it does not exist. That's how prereqs work. Note how the prereqs say nothing about type, and how the template itself says you keep your former type, when you can explicitly enter with a type other than humanoid. So the RAW prereqs do not rule out being a warforged dragonborn. So no, you're incorrect. A dragonborn apparently counts as a humanoid, a dragon, and its original type, whatever that was.

But the template as a whole is just a huge mess. There's no way to resolve this that satisfies everyone. It's broken. Houseruling is required to use the template at all. It's like two different groups of people worked on different parts, then nobody actually went back though to look at it before the parts were spliced together.

[liquidformat]

another two choices is either going Kobold and taking Dragonwrought as first level feat and Dragon Wings feat at level 3; or going spellscale and taking Dragon Wings as level 1 feat.

Warforged are immune to fatigue and a dragonborn warforged doesn't have to wait before it can fly. Plus, warforged lose almost nothing from becoming dragonborn; a bit of Dex, their slam attack, and their body armor (which normally takes a feat to remove). They keep everything else, since they keep the construct type and living construct subtype (and everything that both of those grant you, which is almost all of a warforged's goodies).

So you get flight and other goods right away, and you lose very, very little in return.

You could also enhance your skin as a psychoactive skin, as per the Ancestral Relic feat. Get a psychoactive skin of proteus at later levels, but this is level-dependent. Not that you couldn't do both, mind.
You would still need to be level 5 before your wings are 'strong' enough to be able to fly even if you are able to have warforged dragonborn...


If the flying doesn't necessarily have to be personal and a mount can suffice, you can make do with the wild cohort feat. Earliest for a large size mount would be a dire eagle, unlocked at 10th level.
Actually the earliest flying mount is for a medium character is Dire Bat which is available at level 7. However, if you are going this route you could also take leadership and pickup a pegasus at level 6, If you go leadership route it is worth asking your dm to use CR instead of ECL for your cohort.
Alternatively if you pump handle animal and ride griffon eggs are only 3,500gp, pegasus are 2,000gp, giant eagle are 2,500gp and there are some other options out there too.

[Particle_Man]

Note that whatever you choose, avoid the Stone Dragon maneuvers and stances - they don’t work if you are flying around.

Personally I think Raptoran is likely the simplest choice. If you are very low level maybe combine with the feat shape soulmeld: airstep sandals to get a fly-glide combo, and get another feat (bind least chakra?) at higher level to increase your flight maneuverability to perfect. Or just retrain out of shape soulmeld if you don’t need perfect maneuverability.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Note that whatever you choose, avoid the Stone Dragon maneuvers and stances - they don’t work if you are flying around.I wonder if you could set up a flying stone platform that you could stand on as you direct it mentally, so you can stand firm while also flying around.

[Particle_Man]

I wonder if you could set up a flying stone platform that you could stand on as you direct it mentally, so you can stand firm while also flying around.

I think that might count as a magic item, which the OP said are hard to obtain in this setting.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I think that might count as a magic item, which the OP said are hard to obtain in this setting.One could always make one, by Ancestral Relic, if nothing else. Although I'd rather have a self-made psychoactive skin of proteus, myself. One could also make one via Landlord, so long as some thought is put into how to justify it being a keep of some sort. Perhaps a flying platform with an extradimensional space inside large enough to live in, so you can justify it as being a stronghold.

[Maat Mons]

If being Dragonblooded and taking the Improved Dragon Wings feat is tempting, but not quite the flavor you were looking for, another option is being an Aasimar or Tiefling and taking the Outsider Wings feat.

[daremetoidareyo]

Aberration blood/ other aberration feat/ starspawn

And I believe there’s an eberron web article that allows aberrant dragon mark to count as aberration blood or feats (I forget the specifics)

Crane or swallow hengeyokai?

[daremetoidareyo]

Diopsid (dragon comp) la+1, +born flyer and hover?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Diopsid (dragon comp) la+1, +born flyer and hover?Might want to delete a post and condense the other two before you get a warning.

[liquidformat]

You could also dip one of the prcs that give you a mount: Moonsea Skysentinel gives you a dire hawk; Knight of the Flying Hunt gives you a pegasus; Skylord gives you a celestial giant eagle, celestial giant owl, or celestial pegasus; Aglarondan Griffonrider gives you a griffon; Dragon Rider gives you a dragong cohort (note dragonrider is from draconomicon and doesn't give you a mount but is decent as a preprc before jumping into dragon rider).

[daremetoidareyo]

Might want to delete a post and condense the other two before you get a warning.

Fixed. Thanks for the heads up

[Thurbane]

Grandiose! So the rules allow it by not explicitly forbidding it, but it makes no sense in lore, was never seen, is hinted several times to not be possible, and is quite clearly not what was intended. I'm sure any DM will gladly accept that!
So, it's said three times in the fluff that only humanoids can become dragonborn, then that you keep your type and are an humanoid. But it doesn't say in the prerequisite paragraph explicitly that you have to be Humanoid. The most obvious thing here is of course that everything else is bad editing, and not that they just forgot "Humanoid" in the prerequisites.
This is not a Theoretical Optimization thread, MaxiDuRaritry, it's a real person wanting help for a real game. Please understand that those are not the same and that, in one case, you should try to follow the spirit of the rules instead of the letter of it.



(Also, in this particular case, the rules do forbid dragonborn warforged. You need to sleep for 24 hours for the ritual of rebirth, and constructs do not sleep. Kinda off-topic, but there's that.)

I know the official FAQ is often met with scorn (especially when it disagrees with someone :smalltongue:), but at least one of the devs agrees with MaxiDuRaritry's reading (as do I, FWIW):


Can a warforged become a dragonborn of Bahamut, and if so what are the racial traits it keeps from the warforged list?
Despite the misleading entry in the dragonborn racial traits that suggests that all dragonborn are humanoids, the only prerequisites for being reborn in this manner are a non-evil alignment and an Intelligence of 3 or better. Thus, there’s nothing stopping a warforged from undergoing this ritual and dedicating himself to the service of Bahamut.
A warforged who becomes a dragonborn would be a construct with the living construct and dragonblood subtypes. He’d retain his warforged ability score modifiers and favored class.
He’d also retain all traits derived from the living construct subtype, including immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, disease, nausea, fatigue, exhaustion, and energy drain; inability to heal damage naturally; vulnerability to certain metal- or wood-affecting spells; and half effect from healing spells. He’d still become inert at –1 to –9 hp, and he still wouldn’t need to eat, sleep, or breathe.
However, he would lose his composite plating, light fortification, and slam attack.
The next logical question, of course, is whether the dragonborn warforged can select feats that would improve his now-absent composite plating. Technically, these feats don’t list composite plating as a prerequisite, so it appears the answer would be yes.
The Unarmored Body feat (RE 120) supports this ruling, as it indicates that other feats that adjust the character’s armor bonus could be selected later, even though he technically doesn’t have the composite plating’s armor bonus any more.

[Beni-Kujaku]

I know the official FAQ is often met with scorn (especially when it disagrees with someone :smalltongue:), but at least one of the devs agrees with MaxiDuRaritry's reading (as do I, FWIW):

... What the f**k. The Rite seems purely biological and even requires to sleep... Ah, forget it. Sure, why not. Now I just wanna see what a robot with scales and dragon wings looks like.

[Particle_Man]

Hey if we can say "A wizard did it" surely we can say "The God of Good Dragons did it". :smallcool:

[Thurbane]

... What the f**k. The Rite seems purely biological and even requires to sleep... Ah, forget it. Sure, why not. Now I just wanna see what a robot with scales and dragon wings look like.

Good pick up on the sleep requirement though. It could be argued that it's fluff (it does say it's a symbolic act), but if otherwise it should technically disqualify Warforged and other beings that don't sleep. So no Dragonborn Elves either IIRC - Elves cannot sleep, they only "trance".

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Note that warforged "do not need" to sleep, not "can't" sleep. Just like they "do not need" to eat or drink, and yet they can make use of magic items that require eating or drinking just fine.

[edit] Don't forget that incorporeal and ethereal creatures can fly at will, so the ghost template or at least one level in the ghost savage progression (that you can buy off, due to each level counting as LA) could get you there. You'd almost need to take the Ghostly Grasp feat or find some way to telekinetically wield weapons; otherwise, you'd need to focus on your incorporeal touch attacks or racial abilities or something.

A high enough level could net you a shoulders-bound Phase Cloak, as well, so you can gain ethereality when you move more than 5', but you become corporeal when you stop. This does rely on incarnum, though.