Gloomstalker and Twilight Cleric

[CMCC]

I’ve seen this multiclass suggested quite a bit. It seems to work. But it doesn’t.

The broken twilight channel divinity produces “dim light”. If you’re in darkness and are invisible to those with (and without) darkvision - if you ever want to use this ability then you have just significantly nerfed yourself.

Also you already get darkvision with gloomstalker (much shorter range) so there is redundancy there.

Advantage to initiative is nice but not really necessary since you’re getting the wis boost already. Not quite a redundancy - but not as good as it would be on another class.


There are definitely better dips if you’re looking.

[LordShade]

It fits thematically to me than anything else.

For R/C STRangers, I still like the old-school War and Life MCs.

[CMCC]

It fits thematically to me than anything else.

For R/C STRangers, I still like the old-school War and Life MCs.

Both make much more sense to me.

[Aeon654]

You do have a good point on the channel Divinity option producing dim light, but that is not the point of the build

Twilight Clerics by default at 1st level have darkvision up to a range of 300 feet, and that synergizes very well with the gloomstalker ranger's ability to be invisible to those that rely on darkvision to see in darkness

Which means if you are a ranged build the enemy will have a hard time seeing where the ranged attack is coming from and you can sit back at long ranges in complete darkness even without the sharpshooter feat and shoot at them with impunity as long as they have no other way of being able to see you

and attacks against an opponent that can't see or hear you have advantage, and since they can't rely on sight to find out where you are it would be very easy to do that again on your next turn, long as you can effectively keep your distance and they don't have any other way of detecting you such as through magic or whatever other sense they may have.

This is even better if you have more than one movement option such as flying speeds for example.

The advantage to initiative and the gloomstalker's bonus to initiative is icing on the cake really, makes you able to either go first or be reliably high on the initiative most of the time as this stacks with your Dexterity modifier that also influences your initiative, and as any Tabletop Player worth their salt would tell you, the higher you and your allies are in initiative, the quicker the combat can end.

that is really only scratching the surface of the build, but it is one of it's strongest parts even on it's own

and you are right that there are other builds that can take advantage of this fact,

But Isn't it just cool from a thematic standpoint where you play as a character that can reliably snipe enemies even in total darkness?

[Hytheter]

Twilight Clerics by default at 1st level have darkvision up to a range of 300 feet, and that synergizes very well with the gloomstalker ranger's ability to be invisible to those that rely on darkvision to see in darkness

I don't see how that synergises. You don't need to be invisible if you're 300ft away since you're almost certainly out of their darkvision radius anyway.

[Aeon654]

I don't see how that synergises. You don't need to be invisible if you're 300ft away since you're almost certainly out of their darkvision radius anyway.

Yeah, you are right about that, i just got a little excited to talk about it, heck even the enemies that have truesight usually don't go past 120 ft

but it still is a strong ability to have, and i think it should be nerfed down to 120-150 ft darkvision personally.

even though i did go on a bit of a tangent about it :P

[CMCC]

I don't see how that synergises. You don't need to be invisible if you're 300ft away since you're almost certainly out of their darkvision radius anyway.

Yup. Seems to be a synergy with any archery build that doesn’t use a hand crossbow.

[Segev]

Does being invisible to darkvision mean that even creatures with darkvision are at disadvantage to see you in dim light? Normally, darkvision means dim light is treated as bright light. But if you are invisible to darkvisionS do they have to rely on normal vision, whicadvantages disadvantage on perception checks in dim light, to see you in dim light?

[CMCC]

Does being invisible to darkvision mean that even creatures with darkvision are at disadvantage to see you in dim light? Normally, darkvision means dim light is treated as bright light. But if you are invisible to darkvisionS do they have to rely on normal vision, whicadvantages disadvantage on perception checks in dim light, to see you in dim light?

You’re only invisible in darkness - a gloomstalker in dim light has no effect on darkvision

[verbatim]

I can't think of any way by which a party could create non-magical darkness for a gloomstalker to use that costs less resources than casting Greater Invisibility on him.

[MaxWilson]

I can't think of any way by which a party could create non-magical darkness for a gloomstalker to use that costs less resources than casting Greater Invisibility on him.

Putting out lights with Prestidigitation/Druidcraft.
Throwing torches into the next room with an object interaction.
Waiting until nightfall to start the assault/dungeon crawl.

[verbatim]

Putting out lights with Prestidigitation/Druidcraft.
Throwing torches into the next room with an object interaction.
Waiting until nightfall to start the assault/dungeon crawl.

I more meant situations where its daylight out. Gloomstalker's anti-darkvision trait is heavily dependent on prexisting darkness.

[ChaosStar]

I more meant situations where its daylight out. Gloomstalker's anti-darkvision trait is heavily dependent on prexisting darkness.

Does it? I checked the thing and it doesn't specify non-magical darkness.

[CMCC]

I can't think of any way by which a party could create non-magical darkness for a gloomstalker to use that costs less resources than casting Greater Invisibility on him.

Is this sarcasm?


I more meant situations where its daylight out. Gloomstalker's anti-darkvision trait is heavily dependent on prexisting darkness.
That’s why wait until nightfall was given as an option. If it was permanent greater invisibility at level 3 that wouldn’t make sense. It’s already OP even with the darkness prereq

[Hytheter]

Does it? I checked the thing and it doesn't specify non-magical darkness.

Magical darkness tends to block Darkvision anyway, though. Gloom Stalker doesn't particularly benefit from a Darkness spell unless you're fighting devils, and even then only if they themselves somehow have Devil's Sight or a functional equivalent.

[Segev]

Magical darkness tends to block Darkvision anyway, though. Gloom Stalker doesn't particularly benefit from a Darkness spell unless you're fighting devils, and even then only if they themselves somehow have Devil's Sight or a functional equivalent.

Devil's Sight is not Darkvision, and thus is not something to which gloomstalkers are automatically invisible.

But in any dungeon, finding darkness is not usually very hard.

[verbatim]

Is this sarcasm?


That’s why wait until nightfall was given as an option. If it was permanent greater invisibility at level 3 that wouldn’t make sense. It’s already OP even with the darkness prereq

I guess what im trying to get at is that if you are in daylight the party can't spend resources to force the situation, which i think is what some people were hoping to do with the Twilight Cleric Channel Divinity (which doesn't work because it makes Dim Light instead of Darkness).

[Hytheter]

Devil's Sight is not Darkvision, and thus is not something to which gloomstalkers are automatically invisible.

But in any dungeon, finding darkness is not usually very hard.

It is for monsters. Look at almost any Devil's stat block and you will see something like:

Devil's Sight. Magical darkness doesn't impede the devil's darkvision.

The Devil's Sight invocation works differently, but the devil's sight of actual devils keys off their darkvision, and thus Gloom Stalker's can't be seen by it.

[Segev]

I guess what im trying to get at is that if you are in daylight the party can't spend resources to force the situation, which i think is what some people were hoping to do with the Twilight Cleric Channel Divinity (which doesn't work because it makes Dim Light instead of Darkness).True. Twilight is not darkness, and the gloom stalker is not at his best in broad daylight.


It is for monsters. Look at almost any Devil's stat block and you will see something like:

Devil's Sight. Magical darkness doesn't impede the devil's darkvision.

The Devil's Sight invocation works differently, but the devil's sight of actual devils keys off their darkvision, and thus Gloom Stalker's can't be seen by it.

Huh, good point. I could still see a DM arguing that the gloom stalker's ability doesn't work because it's "devil's sight," but he would be wrong without an actual house rule ignoring that it calls it "darkvision." The invocation is better than the actual devils' ability! Not just vs. gloomstalkers, but the invocation calls out that it's color vision, while it looks like the devils' Devil's Sight just uses normal darkvision rules, so it's black-and-white.