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Scalenex
2021-07-27, 05:39 AM
I did some cursory research on the evolution of swear words.

In medieval times, when people were generally more religious and took their oaths very seriously, it was considered a swear word to talk about a deity in a flippant manner. Often this was done with body parts. Sort of like Order of the Stick with the expression "Thor's nuts!" Insulting a religious figures puts the "profane" in "profanity."

From the Dark Ages into the 19th century, flippant oaths were often considered offensive. That is in fact that root reason why inappropriate language is still called "swear words" even though modern society doesn't put a lot of stock in oaths.

For most human history, people were more open about...bodily functions. This sort of change in the Victorian Era and carried over to the present. This is why most modern swear words involve pee, poop, or sexual acts. Potty mouth.

Centuries ago (and to some extent even now) the evil eye was considered a real thing and if you wished a curse upon someone, it was believed it might come true. This is the origin of the term "curse words."


In my world, human society is built on top of the ruins of elven society and elven society was built on top of the ruins o dragon society. Much like how modern societies like to harken back to famous historical societies, humans in my setting like to pretend to emulate dragons. They might emulate dragon swear words even if the original context is lost.


But I cannot think of a what words a dragon would find offensive enough to consider cussing.

Some dragons would take oaths seriously but some one would not.

Most dragons are vaguely aware that the gods and goddesses are bigger and stronger than dragons are, but they are generally less religious than humanoids.

I don't see how dragons would be offended by bodily functions.

I think that only leaves curses and even then, a dragon would have less to worry about a casual curse than a humanoid.

Wraith
2021-07-27, 06:34 AM
Contemporary media typically depicts dragons - even 'good' or 'nice' ones - as being arrogant, self-assured and generally quite pompous, assuming (not necessarily incorrectly) that a dragon is the peak of culture and evolution. They're just bigger, wiser, older, more powerful and inherently better than the 'younger' races.

As such, I would expect draconic swearing to be a mixture of two things. The first would be derogatory words wherein the subject is compared to something lesser - either patronising them as a child, or describing them as an ignoble species like a wyvern or even (gasp!) a human. The second would be to do so in as grandiose and long-winded way as possible, to not only show off one's own command of language and experience but to deliberately confuse and baffle those listening, so they're know just how inferior they are to the speaker.

The example I can think of which might best fit is from The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim. Once upon a time, Dragons were tyrannical and ruled the world with mortal races as their slave-stock, until eventually some plucky humans managed to decode the draconic language and introduced human concepts that directly wounded the recipient. For example; dragons being immortal, the humans invented a draconic word for 'Death' and by pronouncing it in contemporary draconic (known as Thu'um) it would inflict mortality upon the dragon it was aimed at.

Shouting "be mortal", or "be weak", or "know failure" at a TES dragon made them experience those concepts directly, but only if the speaker is learned and powerful enough to master the language in precisely the right way that most cannot emulate - even some dragons, who cannot comprehend the concept being directed at them and are thus wounded by it. Perhaps more literal than we would expect, but a draconic argument looks like a raging battle with fire and ice being thrown about the place as each speaker attempts to shout their opponent into submission by demonstrating how many words they know.

I don't know the dov for 'idiot' or 'moron', but presumably they do exist. :smalltongue:

Dienekes
2021-07-27, 08:13 AM
Well, what do the usual dragon (not necessarily all) care about and hold with deadly seriousness? Their innate superiority is one as Wraith points out. But I’d say just as important as that would be a dragon’s treasure hoard.

Calling each other poor, or making threats against their hoard like “May your gold turn to dust beneath you.” Or even just making the usual oaths upon their wealth with no intention to back up their claims.

Thomas Cardew
2021-07-27, 10:03 AM
It's not just about words it's about the ideas they represent. Loss of control is big one. Discomfort. Disrespect. What makes a dragon feel powerless? The obvious question is: what caused the end of dragon society? This gives you something dragons fear/hate/respect and you can work from that.

Without that, there's just too much missing information. Dragon's could swear by anything YOU want, pick a style and work backwards.

Religious curses would fit in perfectly say Krynn/Dragonlance where the dragons are agents of the gods. Swearing by the gods means a lot more when you're a divine messenger.

How big/powerful are your dragons? Look for forces bigger/more powerful than them. Can dragons fly in any types of weather, swim to any depths, endure any cold? If not, swear by that.

Are they susceptible to diseases, or discomfort? Sand is still coarse, uncomfortable, and gets everywhere. How do they mate? Is it like Vulcan Pon farr, where an exceptionally intelligent creature, that prides itself on reason, suddenly loses all rational capacity? Does indigestion after eating one too many knights causes involuntary breath attacks? Bodily curses are back on the menu.

Want it to be about oaths? Maybe your dragon's are magically bound to always keep their word/speak true. Then you get to play clever wording games. Or maybe they're REALLY good about holding grudges. Broken oaths matter a lot more when everyone knows Bob isn't trustworthy because of that one time a few thousand years ago he never took out the trash like he promised.

Quizatzhaderac
2021-07-27, 03:50 PM
Classism A big driver of making things profane in modern English is classism: s---, c---, and "feces" all have the same meaning. The first two even have the same informal meanings and originally meant pinched off stuff (relatedly, one also pinches off crops and crepes). But s--- is profane because it's Germanic, and c-- is vulgar because a bunch of 19th century guys decided there was a better, latin-er word.

So what would offend Dragonic class sensibilities? Words that are too human. Notably, "dragon" basically means big snake and "wyrm" sounds like "worm" because they're basically the same word.

Curses Why would dragons have to worry less about curses, because they have higher saving throws? more hit dice? That's not very magical thinking.

If dragons have scales, that makes them safe from being stabbed.

If they have spell resistance, that makes them save from a wizard's fireball.

That doesn't mean the dragon is safe, nobody/nothing gets to be safe. There are thousands of kinds of power in this world and any being is a fool to think it can defend against all of them.

A peasant telling a dragon to drop dead probably isn't going to do the job, but it's putting bad juju on the dragon that's more dangerous than the peasant pulling a knife.

Worse, if the dragon tolerates being called a beast, they're letting those word have power of them.

Also, maybe the dragons' curses weren't taboo to them, but actual spells that they would inflict on lesser beings. The elves and humans took to mimicking these to express their hatred of each other.

Yakk
2021-07-27, 03:55 PM
Swear on broken eggs.

Dragons rarely lay eggs, and they take a long time to hatch. Maybe dragon eggs rarely hatch even. A broken egg is a huge deal.

(This may be why Dragon hybrids are common; imagine it taking 100 years of trying to have one living hatching, or you could cross-breed with a lesser species and get one within the year, even if not a "real" Dragon.)

The swear words would be in Draconic. And much like many modern day swears, the literal meaning and the use may not align.

Cracks (of the shell) could be a mild swear word. The risk of your egg being destroyed, but also a possible sign of birth.

Shards (of a broken egg) a moderate one. The memory of a dead egg, a hole in your heart.

Yolk (spilled on the ground) a serious swear word. The raw moment when your egg is dead, your heart destroyed.

Scarlet Knight
2021-07-27, 04:06 PM
Son of a Wyvern!

Yanagi
2021-07-28, 01:00 AM
I did some cursory research on the evolution of swear words.

In medieval times, when people were generally more religious and took their oaths very seriously, it was considered a swear word to talk about a deity in a flippant manner. Often this was done with body parts. Sort of like Order of the Stick with the expression "Thor's nuts!" Insulting a religious figures puts the "profane" in "profanity."

From the Dark Ages into the 19th century, flippant oaths were often considered offensive. That is in fact that root reason why inappropriate language is still called "swear words" even though modern society doesn't put a lot of stock in oaths.

For most human history, people were more open about...bodily functions. This sort of change in the Victorian Era and carried over to the present. This is why most modern swear words involve pee, poop, or sexual acts. Potty mouth.

Centuries ago (and to some extent even now) the evil eye was considered a real thing and if you wished a curse upon someone, it was believed it might come true. This is the origin of the term "curse words."


In my world, human society is built on top of the ruins of elven society and elven society was built on top of the ruins o dragon society. Much like how modern societies like to harken back to famous historical societies, humans in my setting like to pretend to emulate dragons. They might emulate dragon swear words even if the original context is lost.


But I cannot think of a what words a dragon would find offensive enough to consider cussing.

Some dragons would take oaths seriously but some one would not.

Most dragons are vaguely aware that the gods and goddesses are bigger and stronger than dragons are, but they are generally less religious than humanoids.

I don't see how dragons would be offended by bodily functions.

I think that only leaves curses and even then, a dragon would have less to worry about a casual curse than a humanoid.

Swearing is alternately or in combination

1. Profane
2. Obscene
3. Scatological
4. Contemptuous

Swearing also has varying levels of intensity dictated both by word choice and by the context of the interaction. On one hand you can say disgusting, rude things to close companions and they have no weight because they're general gross statement and the long term bond dictates that such thing need not be taken seriously. On the other a comparatively mild intentional slight can cause great offense if it's an interaction where etiquette is a way of formally and redundantly acknowledging social distance or relative status.

Given that whether good or evil dragons tend to be presented as condescending and imperious towards less powerful creatures and very assured of their own majesty and puissance, I would lead into dragon profanity being permutations of contempt in all contexts. What could be more demeaning, more revelatory of disgust and vexation, than comparison to or labeling as one of those miserable pink-on-the-inside bipeds?

This works in all contexts and at all levels of intensity.

Bohandas
2021-07-28, 01:48 AM
Swearing is alternately or in combination

1. Profane
2. Obscene
3. Scatological
4. Contemptuous

Don't forget the ones that draw attention to people's differences or abnormalities.

brian 333
2021-07-28, 08:00 AM
Gold: Excuse me, but did you say something of importance?

Red: Puny, impotent weakling!

Silver: Where is your sense of propriety?

Blue: The stench of mammal overwhelms my senses.

Copper: If I had a gp for every intelligent thing you have ever said I would be in debt.

Black: You make me wonder why I am not wasting my breath on you.

Bronze: Vile pirate!

Green: If you were my slave I would kill you and feed you to the least of my slaves. Oh, wait, you are...

Brass: Any attempt on my part to offer insult would first require that I instill in you a sense of self worth and then educate you so that you could comprehend that it was slighted.

White: Food should not talk.

Scalenex
2021-07-29, 01:32 AM
Contemporary media typically depicts dragons - even 'good' or 'nice' ones - as being arrogant, self-assured and generally quite pompous, assuming (not necessarily incorrectly) that a dragon is the peak of culture and evolution. They're just bigger, wiser, older, more powerful and inherently better than the 'younger' races.

As such, I would expect draconic swearing to be a mixture of two things. The first would be derogatory words wherein the subject is compared to something lesser - either patronising them as a child, or describing them as an ignoble species like a wyvern or even (gasp!) a human. The second would be to do so in as grandiose and long-winded way as possible, to not only show off one's own command of language and experience but to deliberately confuse and baffle those listening, so they're know just how inferior they are to the speaker.


The Elder Scrolls example is interesting, but I don't think it applies to my world. My dragon's aren't so strong that failure and weakness is entirely alien to them.

I really do like like the comparisons idea of snakes or lesser creatures that are cosmetically related to dragons being related to dragon insults and cussing.


Well, what do the usual dragon (not necessarily all) care about and hold with deadly seriousness? Their innate superiority is one as Wraith points out. But I’d say just as important as that would be a dragon’s treasure hoard.

Calling each other poor, or making threats against their hoard like “May your gold turn to dust beneath you.” Or even just making the usual oaths upon their wealth with no intention to back up their claims.

That is a good idea. Most of my dragons take their hoards very seriously.


It's not just about words it's about the ideas they represent. Loss of control is big one. Discomfort. Disrespect. What makes a dragon feel powerless? The obvious question is: what caused the end of dragon society? This gives you something dragons fear/hate/respect and you can work from that.

That is good. Dragons would view any sign of weakness however so small, as a serious bad things.


Without that, there's just too much missing information. Dragon's could swear by anything YOU want, pick a style and work backwards.

Wise words, I will consider what "style" I want.


Classism A big driver of making things profane in modern English is classism: s---, c---, and "feces" all have the same meaning. The first two even have the same informal meanings and originally meant pinched off stuff (relatedly, one also pinches off crops and crepes). But s--- is profane because it's Germanic, and c-- is vulgar because a bunch of 19th century guys decided there was a better, latin-er word.

So what would offend Dragonic class sensibilities? Words that are too human. Notably, "dragon" basically means big snake and "wyrm" sounds like "worm" because they're basically the same word.

Curses Why would dragons have to worry less about curses, because they have higher saving throws? more hit dice? That's not very magical thinking.

If dragons have scales, that makes them safe from being stabbed.

If they have spell resistance, that makes them save from a wizard's fireball.

That doesn't mean the dragon is safe, nobody/nothing gets to be safe. There are thousands of kinds of power in this world and any being is a fool to think it can defend against all of them.

A peasant telling a dragon to drop dead probably isn't going to do the job, but it's putting bad juju on the dragon that's more dangerous than the peasant pulling a knife.

Worse, if the dragon tolerates being called a beast, they're letting those word have power of them.

Also, maybe the dragons' curses weren't taboo to them, but actual spells that they would inflict on lesser beings. The elves and humans took to mimicking these to express their hatred of each other.

Interesting ideas


Swear on broken eggs.

Dragons rarely lay eggs, and they take a long time to hatch. Maybe dragon eggs rarely hatch even. A broken egg is a huge deal.

(This may be why Dragon hybrids are common; imagine it taking 100 years of trying to have one living hatching, or you could cross-breed with a lesser species and get one within the year, even if not a "real" Dragon.)

The swear words would be in Draconic. And much like many modern day swears, the literal meaning and the use may not align.

Cracks (of the shell) could be a mild swear word. The risk of your egg being destroyed, but also a possible sign of birth.

Shards (of a broken egg) a moderate one. The memory of a dead egg, a hole in your heart.

Yolk (spilled on the ground) a serious swear word. The raw moment when your egg is dead, your heart destroyed.

I appreciate all the responses to this thread. That said. This is my favorite idea of the bunch. Definitely going to use broken eggs as a baseline for some curses.


Son of a Wyvern!

Considering I was actually thinking of Wyverns being formerly used as pets of dragons, this works. :)




Swearing is alternately or in combination

1. Profane
2. Obscene
3. Scatological
4. Contemptuous

Swearing also has varying levels of intensity dictated both by word choice and by the context of the interaction. On one hand you can say disgusting, rude things to close companions and they have no weight because they're general gross statement and the long term bond dictates that such thing need not be taken seriously. On the other a comparatively mild intentional slight can cause great offense if it's an interaction where etiquette is a way of formally and redundantly acknowledging social distance or relative status.

Given that whether good or evil dragons tend to be presented as condescending and imperious towards less powerful creatures and very assured of their own majesty and puissance, I would lead into dragon profanity being permutations of contempt in all contexts. What could be more demeaning, more revelatory of disgust and vexation, than comparison to or labeling as one of those miserable pink-on-the-inside bipeds?

This works in all contexts and at all levels of intensity.

Don't forget the ones that draw attention to people's differences or abnormalities.


Food for thought



Gold: Excuse me, but did you say something of importance?

Red: Puny, impotent weakling!

Silver: Where is your sense of propriety?

Blue: The stench of mammal overwhelms my senses.

Copper: If I had a gp for every intelligent thing you have ever said I would be in debt.

Black: You make me wonder why I am not wasting my breath on you.

Bronze: Vile pirate!

Green: If you were my slave I would kill you and feed you to the least of my slaves. Oh, wait, you are...

Brass: Any attempt on my part to offer insult would first require that I instill in you a sense of self worth and then educate you so that you could comprehend that it was slighted.

White: Food should not talk.

These are condescending insults. That is not the same thing as cussing.

Though I did find them entertaining.

Scalenex
2021-07-29, 03:53 AM
I'm trying to come up with a list of mild, medium, and severe swear words for all the major cultures.

Mild is the real world equivalent of "gosh darn it!"

Medium would be the four letter words that are severely limited in PG 13 movies and can be used unlimited times in Rated R movies.

Severe would be stuff that gets an immediate negative reaction and would frequently get someone evicted from a polite social
circle on the spot.

Let us touch base on the Order of the Stick relating to Durkon (or fake Durkon) exclaiming "THOR'S NUTS"

Lets assume, that "By Thor's Hammer!" would merely be colorful speech, but "Thor's nuts!" is mildly offensive.

Perhaps adding explicit details to the state of Thor's nuts might make it more offensive.

No longer using Rich's version of Thor, let's use one of my fictional gods, Maylar.

So most of the dragons in my world assume that the gods and goddesses are dragonike. After all, dragons are the closest thing to gods among all mortals so gods must look like dragons with wings, claws, scales, tails etc.

In truth, the gods make human-like avatars to talk to humans, elf-like avatars to talk to elves, and dragon-like avatars to talk to dragons, but the dragons know the draconic visage is the "real" version of the god.


Maylar is one god from my pantheon. Greymoria is one goddess from my pantheon

By Maylar's Tail!

By Maylar's Teeth!

By Maylar's Scales!

By Maylar's Blood!

Is there any body part or substance that a dragon would find especially offensive?

Urine? Feces? Gunk from picking their teeth? Spikes?

What is the basest or most private part of a dragon's body?

PattThe
2021-07-29, 04:58 AM
Gold: Excuse me, but did you say something of importance?

Red: Puny, impotent weakling!

Silver: Where is your sense of propriety?

Blue: The stench of mammal overwhelms my senses.

Copper: If I had a gp for every intelligent thing you have ever said I would be in debt.

Black: You make me wonder why I am not wasting my breath on you.

Bronze: Vile pirate!

Green: If you were my slave I would kill you and feed you to the least of my slaves. Oh, wait, you are...

Brass: Any attempt on my part to offer insult would first require that I instill in you a sense of self worth and then educate you so that you could comprehend that it was slighted.

White: Food should not talk.

I have a brass dragon aged 16 who'se parents were savagely killed as she fled with part of the hoard out of the family lair. Stone giants. Anybody got a different take on Brass Dragon cussing and exclamation for a youngin' specifically when hanging out in human guise? Also yes, non-ancient dragons should be able to take human form. IMO.

Scarlet Knight
2021-07-29, 07:37 AM
You got me thinking of how we use curses for both external targets and internal purposes.

If you want her to stay disguised:
In Harry Potter, "Mudblood" was a terrible insult event though the words themselves are not "bad". Maybe "Dragonborne"? If she is trying to hide her true form this might work as she may be seen as simply a "racist" human.

I can see her insulting someone by saying "You inhaler". For a fire-breathing dragon that insults their mental capability; humans may hear it as mistranslation of "you su<k!"

If you want her to slip:
I love how "Barnacles" is used in Spongebob. How about "Cloaca"?

Also in real life we might use the Lord's name in vain. A dragon might yell out "Bahamut" when something hurts?

brian 333
2021-07-29, 07:57 AM
I have a brass dragon aged 16 who'se parents were savagely killed as she fled with part of the hoard out of the family lair. Stone giants. Anybody got a different take on Brass Dragon cussing and exclamation for a youngin' specifically when hanging out in human guise? Also yes, non-ancient dragons should be able to take human form. IMO.

In my world dragon 'races' have an affinity for certain humanoid 'races,' so the ones that can shapechange typically have a preferred form.

Gold = human
Silver = elf
Copper = dwarf
Bronze = merfolk
Brass = gnome

My character Chmeer Brightsheen is a bronze dragon/gnome alchemist who lived through several eras of my campaign.

He affected gnomish speech patterns when in gnomish form and in draconic form that leaked through. I suppose that is the opposite of what you want, but in my world the metallic dragons speak a formal, stylized version of draconic while the chromatic ones speak a version that is polluted with non-draconic words and concepts. For both kinds, when speaking dragon, curses are literal magical attacks. When speaking other languages they use the idioms of that language.

PattThe
2021-07-29, 11:38 PM
In my world dragon 'races' have an affinity for certain humanoid 'races,' so the ones that can shapechange typically have a preferred form.

Gold = human
Silver = elf
Copper = dwarf
Bronze = merfolk
Brass = gnome

My character Chmeer Brightsheen is a bronze dragon/gnome alchemist who lived through several eras of my campaign.

He affected gnomish speech patterns when in gnomish form and in draconic form that leaked through. I suppose that is the opposite of what you want, but in my world the metallic dragons speak a formal, stylized version of draconic while the chromatic ones speak a version that is polluted with non-draconic words and concepts. For both kinds, when speaking dragon, curses are literal magical attacks. When speaking other languages they use the idioms of that language.

This one is a bit sheltered and wasn't growing up in the desert habitat she should have been, instead being sheltered away in mountains. I don't think she's run into many gnomes and a human girl was likely the only guise she could think of. "Oh me? I'm just a girl from the next town over." ""The next town over is a day and a half away by horseback."" "uhhhhhhhhh"

Nothing to say on curses, but I did feel inspired by this thread to have her take a part in an upcoming lightning storm scene in a town where I could have her return to Dragon Form to intimidate people out of a building caught fire, then burn it to the ground to keep the fire from spreading to the rest of the homes in the neighborhood.

sktarq
2021-07-30, 10:55 AM
Well one thing that comes to mind is....

Have dragons changed?

You said dragons had a full society that fell to ruin. So how did the dragons act then in that society different to how dragons act now?
Were they more religious? Was one's value in society measured by one's word (as they lacked written records) and so face/name/etc was very important? If so, perhaps oathbreaking would have been exceptionally important to them. If the main social status system was not gold/hordes etc but of gloria (in the roman sense) then verbal assaults on ones accomplishments (accusations of boasting, etc) could have been seen as the verbal assault of choice. You pointed out yourself that the society that generated the swear words we use is not the one we live in now so why not the same for dragons (and with the amount their society changed even more so)

And maybe they considered certain races, etc disgusting. Just like most modern societies show disgust at rats, and many also take issues with pigs think what dragon would find contemptible and have them throw that at each other.

Also many dragons classically could cast spells . . . Lots of them. Often various plot driven "high magic" that is lost to other races. This could be an equivalent source of "evil eye" type curses.

PattThe
2021-07-30, 08:43 PM
Well one thing that comes to mind is....

Have dragons changed?

You said dragons had a full society that fell to ruin. So how did the dragons act then in that society different to how dragons act now?
Were they more religious? Was one's value in society measured by one's word (as they lacked written records) and so face/name/etc was very important? If so, perhaps oathbreaking would have been exceptionally important to them. If the main social status system was not gold/hordes etc but of gloria (in the roman sense) then verbal assaults on ones accomplishments (accusations of boasting, etc) could have been seen as the verbal assault of choice. You pointed out yourself that the society that generated the swear words we use is not the one we live in now so why not the same for dragons (and with the amount their society changed even more so)

And maybe they considered certain races, etc disgusting. Just like most modern societies show disgust at rats, and many also take issues with pigs think what dragon would find contemptible and have them throw that at each other.

Also many dragons classically could cast spells . . . Lots of them. Often various plot driven "high magic" that is lost to other races. This could be an equivalent source of "evil eye" type curses.


My question to that question is- what does it mean for a dragon who doesn't get to inherit these cultured concepts? I am fascinated with this blank slate Dragon I stole from Storm King's Thunder (campaign predates the adventure) and imagining this young being who has been split from almost everything culturally founded in dragon kind. A hundred years ago their Desert environment was turned into a grassland by the returned Netherese in the Forgotten Realms, and they fled west into the Greypeak Mountains. Stone Giants rise up and murder the invading dragons, and one kid flees to live out in the Delimbyr Vale under the shadow of a Roc and various rival dragons. What kind of personality does this homeless inheritor have with an incomplete history of her kind, and parents who were already living in the shadow of their own stolen fate? She may not have any swears- or if she does have some from lost siblings, then she likely doesn't know the underlying meaning.

I'm curious about what innately may be unique about a dragon's socialization without a complete cultured backing.

Scalenex
2021-07-31, 06:30 AM
Well one thing that comes to mind is....

Have dragons changed?

You said dragons had a full society that fell to ruin. So how did the dragons act then in that society different to how dragons act now?
Were they more religious? Was one's value in society measured by one's word (as they lacked written records) and so face/name/etc was very important? If so, perhaps oathbreaking would have been exceptionally important to them. If the main social status system was not gold/hordes etc but of gloria (in the roman sense) then verbal assaults on ones accomplishments (accusations of boasting, etc) could have been seen as the verbal assault of choice. You pointed out yourself that the society that generated the swear words we use is not the one we live in now so why not the same for dragons (and with the amount their society changed even more so)

And maybe they considered certain races, etc disgusting. Just like most modern societies show disgust at rats, and many also take issues with pigs think what dragon would find contemptible and have them throw that at each other.

Also many dragons classically could cast spells . . . Lots of them. Often various plot driven "high magic" that is lost to other races. This could be an equivalent source of "evil eye" type curses.

That's an excellent point.

I was thinking entirely of modern dragons. The treasure hungry loners lairing in the remote wilderness.

Their ancestors were very different, so I guess I need to figure out what the ancient dragon civilizations valued. I haven't put a lot of details. Mainly that a wide variety of wars devastated the landscape as dragons fought over treasure, land, religion, ideology, water, livestock and all the stuff humans fight over.

A lot of my dungeons are built on ancient draconic ruins but I haven't put a lot of detail in what the dragons did beside leave behind collapsed towers and sprawling subterranean dungeons.

I had the general notion that rich dragons lived in mountains and towers while poor dragons lived underground or in the sea.

Ironically, after the dragon civilizations collapsed, the underground and deep sea constructions were far less damaged and now what territories were once considered the least valuable suddenly became the most valuable territory.

sktarq
2021-08-02, 02:54 PM
My question to that question is- what does it mean for a dragon who doesn't get to inherit these cultured concepts? I am fascinated with this blank slate Dragon I stole from Storm King's Thunder (campaign predates the adventure) and imagining this young being who has been split from almost everything culturally founded in dragon kind. A hundred years ago their Desert environment was turned into a grassland by the returned Netherese in the Forgotten Realms, and they fled west into the Greypeak Mountains. Stone Giants rise up and murder the invading dragons, and one kid flees to live out in the Delimbyr Vale under the shadow of a Roc and various rival dragons. What kind of personality does this homeless inheritor have with an incomplete history of her kind, and parents who were already living in the shadow of their own stolen fate? She may not have any swears- or if she does have some from lost siblings, then she likely doesn't know the underlying meaning.

I'm curious about what innately may be unique about a dragon's socialization without a complete cultured backing.

Well first of all, draconic linguistics. Assuming they speak draconic, even if they learned it from human wizards later they would pick up some of the cultural history from the language itself. The old culture shaped the language and even if the culture is no longer there its echos can be. This is most relevant in sayings, what words are compounded to create other ideas (as this will influence how the compounded idea is mentally conceptualized) etc. And underlying meaning is generally irrelevant to curse words.....they will over time become curse words of themselves...we don't think of religion or oathbreaking much anymore but we still toss around the words derived from them in our culture...or those derived from names of things we no longer remember clearly. Why that bad word is bad matters less than the group agreement that it is.

As for you widdle wost dwagon I'd say they would likely take up the of idea of what dragons are from the ideas held in the culture they are surrounded by....so how does Sespech or Chondath or wherever the dragon ends up see dragons and have the dragon react to that....they may rebel from that image (and that image could be totally inaccurate, somewhat distorted, or pretty spot on) or take it on as what the want to be living up to the best or worst ideas of the trabatour's tales.

And honestly I don't see dragons as having much culture of their own in most versions of D&D. They lack enough social interaction with their own kind (as the loner, gold hoarding, type) their numbers are such that they would have individual reactions to individual dragons. There are not enough of them to develop social roles in a dragon society to the point where "social norms" are much of a thing....which honestly if they once had that and have the mental/social hardware for it would be the kind of thing that would drive them to mess about in humanoid civs the way many seem to. Now some settings (Eberron, Council of Wyrms jump out) do have dragon societies with some serious social structure that isn't valid with what I said above but I think those are the minority...some work in the Draconomicon and some "great game" dragons were also played around in IIRC but i think those if anything demonstrated the lack of a "culture" in dragon kind. But yeah asking what the effect is on a dragon cut off from dragon society, first figure out what the effects are of dragon culture on normal dragons.