Why do people like Extend Rods?

[Xenken]

Hello there!

I'm still new to 3.5 and I see them rated as top shelf literally everywhere, so now's the time to learn why. Through explanations are appreciated, as well as ones related to any class list.

Also, a Rod of Extend Spell would be worse if you have the Extend Spell feat, right? Is it still worth getting, and if so, what would you use it on?

[Fizban]

The Lesser rod costs 3,000gp and is usable 3/day. That's 1,000gp per spell. On the spells you decide to use it on it either is worth an entire extra casting, or turns the spell from too short to use into usable. 1,000gp is a 1st level pearl of power, but it works on spells of up to 3rd level, so the rod is ridiculously cheaper, and that holds for the higher level versions as well. It allows you to hit significant break points like a low level "hour" based duration lasting all day and/or through the whole night and thus letting you say it's always active. For those foolish spells with 24 hour durations, it lets you cast them the day before so tomorrow you get the benefit with no loss of spells, as soon as you can cast the spell. For spells rated at 10 min/level, it lets you go from what was likely 1 hour to 2, or at high levels to 3 or 4, again letting you claim that the spell is active for the entire relevant portion of the day. And even 1 min/level spells quickly go from eh 5 minutes isn't very long to hey 10 minutes is 100 rounds we should finish the whole dungeon by then!*

The rod isn't worse if you have the feat- if the rod exists, there's almost no reason to take the feat except for the people who need it to craft the rods.

*These are primarily problems with the spell duration system, but being able to Extend spells makes it more obvious, and doing so for dirt cheap moves those paradigm shifts even closer.

The usual spells are stuff like Mage Armor, Luminous Armor, Greater Magic Weapon, Greater/Superior Resistance, Overland Flight, Foresight, or Shapechange. A couple more at lower levels might be Alter Self, Resist Energy, and Spider Climb- Mass Resist Energy still fits in on the lesser rod and covers the whole party. Basically just look at any spell and ask yourself if you'd like to double the amount of time the DM would have to make up excuses in order to space out encounters and wear down your spells. Rod of Extend lets you do it without spending a feat or increased spell slot.

[sreservoir]

Lesser rods are cheap, and if you're in a setting where you don't normally get your buffs dispelled, then when you use it to cast a long-duration buff that wouldn't otherwise last all day you get almost as much value out of it as if you'd cast it twice. If you'd want to cast one 2nd-level spell like that, then you're getting almost as much value as a 2nd-level pearl of power, at a 25% discount, and also the lesser rod works on spells up to 3rd level and three times.

[Biggus]

One of the main reasons they're handy is because they're relatively cheap, at high levels you can afford several if you want and you can afford a lesser one even at low levels. If you're a feat-starved caster (ie, most of them except Wizard) it can save you from needing to take the feat.

Extend spell is one of the better metamagic feats generally, among other things it can make 1hr/level spells (eg (Greater) Mage Armor) last all day by level 8 instead of level 16. At very high levels 10min/level spells can last all day with two castings if extended.

Metamagic rods are considered very good items generally, some DMs even ban them. Being able to use metamagic without increasing the spell level is extremely useful for casters.

Edit: bah, double-ninja'd

[Darg]

I do find that people tend to think that rods apply their effect spontaneously to spells being cast, but that only applies to a spontaneous caster. A wizard would still need to prepare the metamagic spell as normal before casting it. I think that inflates rods as a whole, but like everyone else says it gives you a lot of bang for the buck.

[Elkad]

I do find that people tend to think that rods apply their effect spontaneously to spells being cast, but that only applies to a spontaneous caster. A wizard would still need to prepare the metamagic spell as normal before casting it. I think that inflates rods as a whole, but like everyone else says it gives you a lot of bang for the buck.

Wait, so your read is I have to prepare Extended Mage Armor (in a first level slot, and using one of my daily Rod uses) in the morning, I don't just hold the rod in my hand when I cast a regular Mage Armor?

First, I think that's wrong. - "can cast 3 spells a day", not "prepare 3 spells a day"

But I'd happily go along with that rule anyway.

Generally I know what I'm going to Extend anyway, so that doesn't matter a lot.
Also means I can leave the Rod at home if it's a day outing - no reason to carry or risk losing it.

And the act of "preparing the spell" to make a scroll should let me make an Extended Rope Trick scroll out of a 2nd level slot as well. - Which is quite excellent for my bag of "I might need this" scrolls.

[Thurbane]

To be honest, I've never heard this reading of how metamagic rods work before.


Metamagic Rods
Metamagic rods hold the essence of a metamagic feat but do not change the spell slot of the altered spell. All the rods described here are use-activated (but casting spells in a threatened area still draws an attack of opportunity). A caster may only use one metamagic rod on any given spell, but it is permissible to combine a rod with metamagic feats possessed by the rod’s wielder. In this case, only the feats possessed by the wielder adjust the spell slot of the spell being cast.

Possession of a metamagic rod does not confer the associated feat on the owner, only the ability to use the given feat a specified number of times per day. A sorcerer still must take a full-round action when using a metamagic rod, just as if using a metamagic feat he possesses.

Underlining mine.

Seems unlikely they would need to spell out that casting the spell still provokes, if the expectation is that the rod be used when memorizing/preparing the spell.

[TotallyNotEvil]

Metamagic Rods of virtually any stripe are great. Lesser Extend is particularly noteworthy for being so dang cheap.

Especially at low levels, you need to make your spell slots count as much as possible, and this helps tremendously with that.

Making sure your one casting of Shield is going to last till the end is incredibly worthwhile. The little pauses to check a body over or pick a lock or bandage a wound or anything of the sort can cause a spell to fizzle our just before an important fight.

Even higher level characters can make excellent use of Lesser rods. While Wands of Shield and Mage Armor are probably decent buys for a richer wizard who'd rather have a free slot or two, when it comes to spells like Barkskin, Resist/Protection from Energy, (Greater) Magic Weapom/Armor and Mirror Image, being cast at higher CL matters a whole damn lot, which makes the Rod a much more palatable option.

To say nothing of whipping out a Dazing Fireball three times per day! Or a Rime Ice Slick. Or a Toppling Magic Missile, those are of a lot of fun. And of course, Lesser Quicken on someone with a good enough spell list is just amazing.

Facing down a bunch of many-limbed enemies? Quickened Slow to make sure they don't mince you up. In a tough spot? Cast whatever you want to cast and then Qucken Invisibility to get away. Quicken Haste so you can give out the ever essential buff and still attack the enemy in the same round, or perhaps deal with something that needs being Dispelled. Quicken Longstrider and Run the hell away. The sky the is limit.

Overall, metamagic rods are versatile and fun. The lesser ones make that far more accessible. Which goes double for the cheapest of the lot that's nonetheless a nearly universally useful effect.

[Crake]

To be honest, I've never heard this reading of how metamagic rods work before.

I heard it for the first time a little while back as well, and hadn't heard it for years upon years before that, though I can kinda see where the idea comes from.


Underlining mine.

Seems unlikely they would need to spell out that casting the spell still provokes, if the expectation is that the rod be used when memorizing/preparing the spell.

Not if half the use cases are spontaneous casters who do get to activate the rod spontaneously.

[Darg]

To be honest, I've never heard this reading of how metamagic rods work before.



Underlining mine.

Seems unlikely they would need to spell out that casting the spell still provokes, if the expectation is that the rod be used when memorizing/preparing the spell.

Nothing says that the use activation has to be casting the spell. Other feats and effects specifically mention that the effect applies when a spell is cast. Metamagic rods are silent on that regard. It tells you that you are gaining the benefit of the feat and nothing else. As for evidence #2, the fact that spontaneous casters still have to use a full round action just like using the feat is strong implication that it functions just like the feat:


Possession of a metamagic rod does not confer the associated feat on the owner, only the ability to use the given feat a specified number of times per day. A sorcerer still must take a full-round action when using a metamagic rod, just as if using a metamagic feat he possesses.

It's a big "screw you" to sorcerers and other spontaneous casters if they are the only ones that have to follow all the rules of metamagic. Then again, that is WotC's MO.

[Silly Name]

The exact wording of metamagic rods' rules has been a point of contention at my table before, since it doesn't explicitely spell out how they work for prepared casters, but it says you can apply the relevant metamagic feat to a certain number of spells per day, but the descriptions say "the wielder can CAST"... it was a long debate that happened long ago, I don't remember all the details.

Since spontaneous casters have to follow the normal rules for applying metamagic even when using metamagic rods, we ruled that the same goes for prepared casters, so they don't get to do on-the-fly metamagic. I'm not sure it's RAW, but it was the solution that kept everyone moderately happy.

[Psyren]

The rod doesn't just let you access the feat, it applies it. Here is the specific wording from further in the rod's entry:


Metamagic, Extend: The wielder can cast up to three spells per day that are extended as though using the Extend Spell feat.

1) It specifically says cast, not prepare.
2) The spells are extended "as though using the feat" - meaning the rod is applying the feat's result to the spell, not granting the feat itself. Thus prepared casters don't have to follow the regular rules of doing so, the spell comes out extended.

[Darg]

That's the thing, prepared casters still cast spells after they are prepared.


Once per day, you can apply the effect of the Maximize Spell feat to any spell you cast without increasing the level of the spell or specially preparing it ahead of time.

It doesn't tell you that it is used when you cast the spell.


Wait, so your read is I have to prepare Extended Mage Armor (in a first level slot, and using one of my daily Rod uses) in the morning, I don't just hold the rod in my hand when I cast a regular Mage Armor?

First, I think that's wrong. - "can cast 3 spells a day", not "prepare 3 spells a day"

But I'd happily go along with that rule anyway.

Generally I know what I'm going to Extend anyway, so that doesn't matter a lot.
Also means I can leave the Rod at home if it's a day outing - no reason to carry or risk losing it.

And the act of "preparing the spell" to make a scroll should let me make an Extended Rope Trick scroll out of a 2nd level slot as well. - Which is quite excellent for my bag of "I might need this" scrolls.

Preparing spells is specific to prepared casters. If it said that you wouldn't be able to use them with spontaneous casters at all.


Magic Items and Metamagic Spells: With the right item creation feat, you can store a metamagic version of a spell in a scroll, potion, or wand. Level limits for potions and wands apply to the spell’s higher spell level (after the application of the metamagic feat). A character doesn’t need the metamagic feat to activate an item ,storing a metamagic version of a spell.

Rods don't change the altered spell level. So using a rod to extend a mage armor will allow you to cast extended mage armor as a 2nd level spell in a 1st level slot. Meaning crafting isn't affected, nor is the increased concentration DCs.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

The MIC has rules for converting magic items into psionic items by using prereq substitution, and this applies to metamagic rods to turn them into metapsionic rods. Question is, do you still have to expend your psionic focus to utilize a metapsionic rod of Extend Power?

[SangoProduction]

Basically: It's cheap but powerful for the right spells.

You can think of double duration as preparing an extra spell (slightly less, since an extra preparation is more flexible, but shh). A thousand per spell, which you can spontaneously extend per day? Yeah. Pretty good.

[Telonius]

FAQ =/= RAW, but I found an old (2006) post (https://www.enworld.org/threads/how-do-metamagic-rods-work-for-preparation-spellcasters.183012/) referencing it:


The FAQ states:
Does a wizard (or other spellcaster who prepares spells) with a metamagic rod (Dungeon Master’s Guide, 236) activate it when preparing spells (thus preparing three spells with a metamagic effect without paying the extra spell level cost) or when casting spells (allowing her to apply the metamagic effect to any three spells she likes)?

The latter. The metamagic rods function the same for any spellcaster—they allow her to apply a metamagic effect “on the fly” when casting the spell to be affected. The exception is the sorcerer (or by extension, any other spontaneous spellcaster) who must still use a full-round action to cast the affected spell.


(The original poster disagreed with this ruling).

[sreservoir]

The MIC has rules for converting magic items into psionic items by using prereq substitution, and this applies to metamagic rods to turn them into metapsionic rods. Question is, do you still have to expend your psionic focus to utilize a metapsionic rod of Extend Power?

The MIC sidebar in question covers two specific situations:

You can substitute Craft Psionic Arms and Armor for Craft Magic Arms and Armor, and Craft Universal Item for Craft Wondrous Item, as a feat prerequisite.
You can substitute a power of "similar flavor" for a spell prerequisite, if the item effect doesn't "directly implement that spell".

Basically, the MIC rule lets a character with a psionic item creation feat create psionic items that functional exactly as an item that wasn't specifically written up as psionic, but psionic. There's no provision whatsoever for adjusting the effect to work differently; a psionic version of arcanist's gloves (presumably using CUI and animal affinity) would still specifically affect arcane spells, the same way it doesn't matter if it's a divine bard who created it.

Also, that first part isn't open-ended; it spells out those two specific feat substitutions, and neither of replaces Craft Rod.

[Gnaeus]

Wait, so your read is I have to prepare Extended Mage Armor (in a first level slot, and using one of my daily Rod uses) in the morning, I don't just hold the rod in my hand when I cast a regular Mage Armor?

First, I think that's wrong. - "can cast 3 spells a day", not "prepare 3 spells a day"

But I'd happily go along with that rule anyway.

Generally I know what I'm going to Extend anyway, so that doesn't matter a lot.
Also means I can leave the Rod at home if it's a day outing - no reason to carry or risk losing it.

Pretty much exactly this. I disagree with the reading but it’s kind of a lateral move. Now you don’t need to worry about putting down your wand and pulling out a rod. Or even better, a cleric, a Gish? A freaking Druid turned into a bear? And for a wizard maybe a little worse. For typical extend a hour or day/level spell it’s not much difference. But for some characters it’s much much better.

[mattie_p]

If a wizard could prepare spells using the rod, I can't see how they would ever depart for an adventure after extended downtime without every spell slot prepared with the rod. Once in memory, spells stay in memory unless used, after all. A level 9 wizard with a week off has time for 21 spell slots with extend, or basically their full load out

[Vaern]

Hello there!

I'm still new to 3.5 and I see them rated as top shelf literally everywhere, so now's the time to learn why. Through explanations are appreciated, as well as ones related to any class list.

Also, a Rod of Extend Spell would be worse if you have the Extend Spell feat, right? Is it still worth getting, and if so, what would you use it on?
The benefit of the rod over the feat is that augmenting a spell with the rod doesn't make the spell cost a higher level spell slot. Rods are also particularly useful for prepared casters, as the spell doesn't need to be prepared with the metamagic feat in order to be augmented by a rod.
People around here are also big on theorycrafting, so most people will argue that using nondamaging spells to effectively control the battlefield is a better use of spellpower than trying to deal with damage to kill your enemies outright. Extend spell happens to be a rather inexpensive and potent way to make that kind of spell more effective.

[Darg]

If a wizard could prepare spells using the rod, I can't see how they would ever depart for an adventure after extended downtime without every spell slot prepared with the rod. Once in memory, spells stay in memory unless used, after all. A level 9 wizard with a week off has time for 21 spell slots with extend, or basically their full load out

You are still limited with how many of them you can cast each day.

[Zanos]

Hello there!

I'm still new to 3.5 and I see them rated as top shelf literally everywhere, so now's the time to learn why. Through explanations are appreciated, as well as ones related to any class list.
A 1-3 rod of extend is very cheap, and doubles the durations of many powerful spells. (Greater) Mage Armor, Magic Circle Against Evil, Command Undead, Heart of Water, and the like are all spells that benefit greatly from being extended to cover an adventuring day and beyond.


Also, a Rod of Extend Spell would be worse if you have the Extend Spell feat, right? Is it still worth getting, and if so, what would you use it on?
It's less valuable, but it's still nice to have because it's very cheap and the spells you boost with the rod don't take higher level spell slots. So if you want an extended heart of water, and you probably do, you don't have to use a 4th level slot on it, just a 3rd. That's pretty nice for a relatively cheap magic item.


To be honest, I've never heard this reading of how metamagic rods work before.
Neither have I, and I think it's wrong. The rods are use-activated, and apply when casting a spell. I think you have to torture the wording to read it this way, and I think if you have two readings which might be valid you should go with the one that's closer to the intent or fits better with other examples and assumptions in the rules.


If a wizard could prepare spells using the rod, I can't see how they would ever depart for an adventure after extended downtime without every spell slot prepared with the rod. Once in memory, spells stay in memory unless used, after all. A level 9 wizard with a week off has time for 21 spell slots with extend, or basically their full load out.
Or buy one maximize rod and one quicken rod, and then go into combat with a full loadout of maximized spells with their standard actions, and quickened spells for their swifts. Hell, maybe then those rods would justify their ludicrous costs. :smalltongue:

[Ramza00]

So with 10 min per level buffs

CL 06 is 1 hour
CL 09 is 90 mins
CL 12 is 2 hours
CL 15 is 150 mins
CL 18 is 3 hours.

Well with a rod of extend now those numbers are 2 hours, 3/4/5/6 hours.

[Segev]

I am particularly fond of Extend used on command undead. Doubling that day/CL duration to 2 days/CL is amazing.

[Zanos]

I am particularly fond of Extend used on command undead. Doubling that day/CL duration to 2 days/CL is amazing.
Yeah, mindless undead get no save and will not resist suicidal orders, so spending a 2nd level slot and a rod charge on it daily means you can keep 2*CL skeletons or zombies of any hit dice under your command.

Very funny at low levels if you take fell animate.

[gijoemike]

You are still limited with how many of them you can cast each day.

No, Darg, or at least not under your interpretation of these rules. There isn't a way for a use activated item not in your possession to alter your prepared setup. How can it limit you to 3 castings a day if you have to use a limited # of activate during the preparation of the spell? A wizard could prepare 4 free extended spells, how does it limit a wizard from casting the 4th spell? Or are you saying the wizard prepares all spells with extend in thh morning but then activates the rod during casting?

I disagree with this interpretation of the rules for these reasons.
1. The rods are called out as use activated. The effect of a rod happens upon use activation. The effect is having cast a spell as though it were extended
2. The rods only refer to casting of a spell. Preparation isn't mentioned. The effect of extend is doubling the duration of a spell. Prepared in the morning/evening is not an effect of the extend feat that is how the feat is applied to a spell.
3. The rod specifically mentions the spell being cast still provokes.

So when the button on an extend rod is pressed(use activated). The on use effect of doubling a spells duration as though the extend spell metamagic feat was applied is applied to ... a spell currently being cast by the wielder. The only viable target of a metamagic rod is a spell currently being cast. It doesn't make any sense to apply it to an existing prepared spell, or a spell already in effect, or limiting the preparation of a spell. I agree with Psyren and Zanos.

[ciopo]

You are still limited with how many of them you can cast each day.

not if the rod is used at the preparation, as you've been advocating, so any "rodded" slot that I don't use a particular day, it carries over to the following days

[Harrow]

Rods don't change the altered spell level. So using a rod to extend a mage armor will allow you to cast extended mage armor as a 2nd level spell in a 1st level slot. Meaning crafting isn't affected, nor is the increased concentration DCs.

I don't actually think that's how that works. The rules on metamagic are very specific, stating that, "Spells modified by a metamagic feat use a spell slot higher than normal. This does not change the level of the spell, so the DC for saving throws against it does not go up." emphasis mine. An Extended Mage Armor is a 1st level spell, but must be cast out of a 2nd level slot. Taken on its own, this would mean that a scroll of Extended Mage Armor would cost the same as a regular one, as the item creation rules otherwise don't care about spell slots, only the actual level of the spell. This is obviously a problem, so the writers added in the rule that, "Using metamagic feats, a caster can place spells in items at a higher level than normal" and the rule you quoted, which, taken together, imply that, normally, a scroll of Extended Mage Armor would be considered a 2nd level spell (and minimum caster level 3rd) for the purposes of item creation. But, when you use a Rod of Extend, then you're casting a 1st level spell out of a 1st level slot. It is in no way a 2nd level spell. So, why would a scroll of Extended Mage Armor cast with a metamagic Rod of Extend cost more?

I mean, for balance purposes it should. This is clearly an oversight, a mistake, and not intentional. Really, it's the fault of declaring metamagic'd spells to not actually be of a higher level unless using Heighten. I'm not quite sure why the writers did that, because it seems to me to open up opportunities for abuse, like this one.

[Thurbane]

FWIW, this is what the FAQ says (feel free to heap scorn on the FAQ as you see fit):


Does a wizard (or other spellcaster who prepares spells) with a metamagic rod (DMG 236) activate it when preparing spells (thus preparing three spells with a metamagic effect without paying the extra spell level cost) or when casting spells (allowing her to apply the metamagic effect to any three spells she likes)?
The latter. The metamagic rods function the same for any spellcaster—they allow her to apply a metamagic effect “on the fly” when casting the spell to be affected. The exception is the sorcerer (or by extension, any other spontaneous spellcaster) who must still use a full-round action to cast the affected spell.

Ninja'd by over 4 hours

[Darg]

I don't actually think that's how that works. The rules on metamagic are very specific, stating that, "Spells modified by a metamagic feat use a spell slot higher than normal. This does not change the level of the spell, so the DC for saving throws against it does not go up." emphasis mine. An Extended Mage Armor is a 1st level spell, but must be cast out of a 2nd level slot. Taken on its own, this would mean that a scroll of Extended Mage Armor would cost the same as a regular one, as the item creation rules otherwise don't care about spell slots, only the actual level of the spell. This is obviously a problem, so the writers added in the rule that, "Using metamagic feats, a caster can place spells in items at a higher level than normal" and the rule you quoted, which, taken together, imply that, normally, a scroll of Extended Mage Armor would be considered a 2nd level spell (and minimum caster level 3rd) for the purposes of item creation. But, when you use a Rod of Extend, then you're casting a 1st level spell out of a 1st level slot. It is in no way a 2nd level spell. So, why would a scroll of Extended Mage Armor cast with a metamagic Rod of Extend cost more?

I mean, for balance purposes it should. This is clearly an oversight, a mistake, and not intentional. Really, it's the fault of declaring metamagic'd spells to not actually be of a higher level unless using Heighten. I'm not quite sure why the writers did that, because it seems to me to open up opportunities for abuse, like this one.


Effects of Metamagic Feats on a Spell: In all ways, a metamagic spell operates at its original spell level, even though it is prepared and cast as a higher-level spell

They are prepared and cast as a higher level spell. The spell only operates at the original level after it's been cast. It uses a higher level slot and uses higher concentration DCs to match the higher level. This would also technically apply to minimum caster level, but it's contested because people like their cheese. A maximized fireball is a 3rd level spell that uses a 6th level slot, is cast as a 6th level spell, and operates as a 3rd level spell.



I stand by my interpretation of metamagic rods. So we can agree to disagree.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

The MIC sidebar in question covers two specific situations:

You can substitute Craft Psionic Arms and Armor for Craft Magic Arms and Armor, and Craft Universal Item for Craft Wondrous Item, as a feat prerequisite.
You can substitute a power of "similar flavor" for a spell prerequisite, if the item effect doesn't "directly implement that spell".

Basically, the MIC rule lets a character with a psionic item creation feat create psionic items that functional exactly as an item that wasn't specifically written up as psionic, but psionic. There's no provision whatsoever for adjusting the effect to work differently; a psionic version of arcanist's gloves (presumably using CUI and animal affinity) would still specifically affect arcane spells, the same way it doesn't matter if it's a divine bard who created it.

Also, that first part isn't open-ended; it spells out those two specific feat substitutions, and neither of replaces Craft Rod.Rods typically double as maces, and therefore count as weapons, and if metapsionic rods are these, then you could argue that Craft Psionic Arms & Armor is an appropriate feat. But I doubt they are, as they aren't specified as such. Problem is, they're not cognizance crystals, dorjes, psicrowns, constructs, power stones, or psionic tattoos. There's one other category that covers all other psionic items, and that's Craft Universal Item, which even items that are covered by other specific magic crafting feats, such as Craft Ring, are covered by, as evidenced by the ring of self-sufficiency (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/items/universalItems.htm#ringofSelfSufficiency). So metapsionic rods should be covered by it, as well.

[sreservoir]

Rods typically double as maces, and therefore count as weapons, and if metapsionic rods are these, then you could argue that Craft Psionic Arms & Armor is an appropriate feat. But I doubt they are, as they aren't specified as such. Problem is, they're not cognizance crystals, dorjes, psicrowns, constructs, power stones, or psionic tattoos. There's one other category that covers all other psionic items, and that's Craft Universal Item, which even items that are covered by other specific magic crafting feats, such as Craft Ring, are covered by, as evidenced by the ring of self-sufficiency (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/items/universalItems.htm#ringofSelfSufficiency). So metapsionic rods should be covered by it, as well.

That's motivated reasoning, not rules.

[Elkad]

Preparing spells is specific to prepared casters. If it said that you wouldn't be able to use them with spontaneous casters at all.

Well spontaneous casters are new, and therefore an abomination, so I don't consider or play them :P

[Biggus]

I stand by my interpretation of metamagic rods.

What about Psyren's point that each individual metamagic rod says it allows you to cast spells as though using the feat, not prepare them as though using the feat?

[Silly Name]

For the record, I think Psyren's reading is indeed RAW. I just think it's dumb that Metamagic Rods let prepared casters ignore all limitations and restrictions but don't do so for spontaneous casters.

[Segev]

I mean, a manifester with access to fourth level powers can use Psychic Reformation to give himself almost any Crafting feat during downtime, so it isn't that big of a deal which feat it is that makes a given item as long as it doesn't require a lot of prerequisites (like Craft Construct).

[Thurbane]

For the record, I think Psyren's reading is indeed RAW.

Me too. I was genuinely surprised there is any other reading.


What about Psyren's point that each individual metamagic rod says it allows you to cast spells as though using the feat, not prepare them as though using the feat?

I think Darg has made his stance clear, no point beating a dead horse.

End of the day, everyone is free to walk away with their own interpretation of RAW, no harm no foul. :smallsmile:

[Endarire]

Metamagic rods are useful because getting items feels great while spending feats is generally expensive.

Metamagic rods let you spontaneously apply certain metamagic feats to certain spells without increasing casting time nor spell slot level.

People like cheap stuff because they like having lots of useful items.

When I played Baldur's Gate II as a Sor pretty much unmodded, the metamagic I wanted the most was Extend Spell for double duration on 1 round/CL effects and buffs in general because reapplying buffs on a party of 6 made me quit the game. (Years later I eventually beat BG2:EE including Throne of Bhaal but with a main party of 1 or 2.) Someone has since granted my desire in mod form (https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/76732/v1-5-olvynspells-96-new-spells-for-bg-ee-bg2-ee-iwd-ee-and-eet/p1) and our family will be using this mod (OlvynSpells) in our next EET (Enhanced Edition Trilogy) playthrough.