How does Earth Glide really work?

[weckar]

The Earth Dreamer's capstone ability allows them to move through solid stone as if it were water. Earth Glide seems to leave quite a bit of information out, however:

How fast does the Earth Dreamer get to move during this state?
Can they leave the stone and re-enter as long as it is within the turn limit?
Can they attack a creature adjacent to the stone from inside the stone?
Can they take any objects/equipment with them? What about other (carried) creatures?
What happens if their time runs out inside the stone?
Do they still need to breathe?
What if they die?
Can they move vertically, if their normal movement modes wouldn't allow it?

[Tzardok]

The Earth Dreamer's capstone ability allows them to move through solid stone as if it were water. Earth Glide seems to leave quite a bit of information out, however:
The text is nearly copied verbatim from the earth elemental. Some of those problems are the result of that, but some can be solved by looking at the elemental.


How fast does the Earth Dreamer get to move during this state?
Earth elementals have only a ground movement. That makes it likely that an earth gliding Earth Dreamer uses his ground movement too.


Can they leave the stone and re-enter as long as it is within the turn limit?
Sure, why not? It's not like a creature with a temporary swim movement has to stay in water all the time.



Can they attack a creature adjacent to the stone from inside the stone?
Sure. I would handle that similiar to an incorporeal creature attacking from inside a wall (except that the Earth Dreamer can see what's outside as long as he uses Earth Sight).


Can they take any objects/equipment with them?
That's unclear. Elementals usually don't use equipment. On one hand, it would be kind of stupid having to completely undress when using the ability. On the other hand, being able to take stone and metal objects with you would be flavourful. I would probably allow taking objects up to your carrying capacity with you.


What about other (carried) creatures?
If the ability doesn't say you can creatures with you, you can't take creatures with you.


What happens if their time runs out inside the stone?
Unclear. Easiest way would be to model it on what happens if the time on Meld into Stone runs out or you teleport into a solid object.


Do they still need to breathe?
Elementals don't need to breath, so the ability remains silent on that. I would assume that you need to hold your breath, unless you've got some spell or magic item that allows you to breath earth.


What if they die?
The corpse is propably expelled. Of course, a creative DM could also rule that the corpse remains entombed in the earth or even fuses with the stone.


Can they move vertically, if their normal movement modes wouldn't allow it?

Sure. Earth elementals can, and as already mentioned, they don't have any mocement rates except for a ground movement.

[emulord]

"As if it were water" to me = a swim check,

Solid stone is unmoving (Barring earthquakes), so itd be considered "Calm water". With a DC 10 swim check you could move 1/4 your ground movement as a move action, or 1/2 as a full round action. If you fail by 5 or more you "go underwater" which doesnt actually make you fall down, but you have to start making checks to hold your breath.

[loky1109]

"as easily as a fish swims through water" doesn't sound like "swim check"

[emulord]

Lol thats what I get for not looking up the source. Yeah base speed as swim speed sounds reasonable.

[loky1109]

Another question. Are there methods to prevent earth glide? A castle protection or some like this.

[Tzardok]

Another question. Are there methods to prevent earth glide? A castle protection or some like this.

You can't glide through wood or metal. A wooden layer in your walls protects from earth glide, just like the thin layering with lead people use to block divinations like detect magic (I wonder... if I earth glide and notice a paper thin layer of lead, can I break through with a bull rush?)

[Krym]

(I wonder... if I earth glide and notice a paper thin layer of lead, can I break through with a bull rush?) I don't see why not. I'd imagine there'd be some sort of penalty. (Although the DC to break it would probably be something like 5 so that doesn't really matter)

[weckar]

Thanks tzardok for that breakdown. Had not heard of the ability for incorporeals to attack from inside walls before. Earth Sight is a bit of a bag of worms on its own (do sight enhancing effects carry through it? If the stone ends short of 30ft, how far can you see beyond?) but it does help to have both!

[noce]

Another question: is the glider effectively blind while inside solid stone? The ability doesn't grant you special senses.

[Tzardok]

Another question: is the glider effectively blind while inside solid stone? The ability doesn't grant you special senses.

Earth Dreamers have an ability called Earth Sight, which allows them to temporarily see through up to 30 ft. of earth or stone, and can otherwise orient themselves with Tremorsense 10 ft. and their Earth Sense feat, which grants a lesser version of Tremorsense with a range of 20 ft.
On the other hand, I just noticed that earth elementals contrary to my expectations don't have Tremorsense or any other special sensory abilities beyond darksight, so they are either without senses while earthgliding or it's assumed that they just can see.
In the future I'm giving my earth elementals either permanent Earth Sight or Tremorsense.


Thanks tzardok for that breakdown. Had not heard of the ability for incorporeals to attack from inside walls before. Earth Sight is a bit of a bag of worms on its own (do sight enhancing effects carry through it? If the stone ends short of 30ft, how far can you see beyond?) but it does help to have both!

From the description I would assume that it's essentially a sight enhancement with the 30 ft. radius. Beyond it, you can see completely normal. It's like with darkvision. Imagine you have darkvision 30 ft. and are in an area of darkness that ends in 25 ft. In those 25 ft., you can see in black and white like usually in darkness. Beyond the 25 ft. there is light and you can see completely normally in color and stuff until your line of sight ends (either from distance or an obstacle).

[noce]

Earth Dreamers have an ability called Earth Sight, which allows them to temporarily see through up to 30 ft. of earth or stone, and can otherwise orient themselves with Tremorsense 10 ft. and their Earth Sense feat, which grants a lesser version of Tremorsense with a range of 20 ft.
On the other hand, I just noticed that earth elementals contrary to my expectations don't have Tremorsense or any other special sensory abilities beyond darksight, so they are either without senses while earthgliding or it's assumed that they just can see.
In the future I'm giving my earth elementals either permanent Earth Sight or Tremorsense.

I'm sorry I didn't read abouth Earth Sight for Earth Dreamer, though as you say Earth Elementals do have this problem.
At my table, the question came up a couple years ago, when I played a Stonespeaker Guardian (another PrC from Races of Stone). This PrC has Earth Glide and no means to see through earth and stone.

My DM houseruled that I could see while earth gliding, but I needed to take into account the fact that underground there is no light (luckily I had darkvision). Strangely enough, he also houseruled that while underground I could not see what happened above ground, like if the surface were opaque, but I think this was mainly for game balance purposes.

Off-topic: should I have used "like if the surface was opaque" instead of were?
I'm reading about Subjunctive and Irrealis mood but I can't decide, my native tongue is a bit different in use in these circumstances.