Invoke Duplicity: A Quick Question About Melee Spells

[aadder]

Hey forgive me if anyone has talked about this already, but can you use Invoke Duplicity to cast ranged spells into melee without penalty?

I ask this because it says you can cast spells through it, but it says it uses YOUR senses, and the rules for melee casting say you get disadvantage because you're too close to your enemy to aim clearly.

SO i would argue you could use spells in melee through it without disadvantage, provided you can see the target from your vantage point.

Does that make sense to anyone else?

I'm trying to find a fun way to use Invoke Duplicity to punch people in melee with spells, basically, and this seems to make sense given the wording. I know that this spell is REALLY poorly worded, as is the wording for why you would get disadvantage in the first place. I feel like it's a bit unfair to limit it to your REAL position in terms of line of sight, and then also restrict you based on your theoretical line of sight if you were in melee, you know?

[Chad.e.clark]

I would allow it. Off the top of my head doesn't break anything in two. And Invoke Duplicity as written definitely seems like one of the tamer Channel Divinities, so a small buff that makes it more likely to be used seems fine to me.

[RogueJK]

Keep in mind that doing so wouldn't be very useful on a single class Trickery Cleric. Clerics have exactly one ranged attack roll spell: Guiding Bolt.

So you'd need access to additional ranged attack roll spells from other classes in order for it to be all that useful.

[aadder]

Keep in mind that doing so wouldn't be very useful on a single class Trickery Cleric. Clerics have exactly one ranged attack roll spell: Guiding Bolt.

So you'd need access to additional ranged attack roll spells from other classes in order for it to be all that useful.

Oh i plan to, yeah. I think the Trickery Cleric only has value as a multiclass option.

[RogueJK]

I think the Trickery Cleric only has value as a multiclass option.

For that specific planned use of Invoke Duplicity, perhaps. But Trickery Clerics as a whole have their place. They're never going to be the most obviously OP Cleric subclass, but they're a solid Cleric option, especially post-Tasha's. Compared to other Cleric subclasses, they're a B+/A- when used by a creative player.

Blessing of the Trickster is very handy. Nigh-permanent Advantage on Stealth for the group scout is great. Or you can alternately use it help to shore up the weak Stealth of the clumsiest/loudest party member, when doing group stealth checks.

Their Channel Divinity Invoke Duplicity is a niche ability, but potentially useful in limited situations. The fact that it eats your Concentration is what kills it for most combat uses, since Clerics are already overloaded with great Concentration spells, and Trickery Clerics even more so. (Even if you plan to blast spells through your Duplicate as a multiclass Trickery Cleric, there will almost always be better uses for your Concentration in combat.) But there are creative out of combat uses for it. And at 6th, you get another situationally useful CD option for non-Concentration Invisibility for 2 rounds/12 seconds at a time, which is handy for infiltration, battlefield repositioning, creative hijinks, or emergency escape. Plus, you now have an alternate use for your CDs from Harness Divine Power in Tasha's, which is pretty much always useful. So that can be your go-to option for several of your CD uses per day, and then just utilize the more niche options when they'd be useful.

Their poison-based Divine Strike definitely sucks, but Clerics can now swap out for radiant damage Blessed Strikes in Tasha's, so that's no longer an issue.

The best thing about the Trickery Cleric is that they have a number of excellent spells that other Clerics don't get access to, including Disguise Self, Mirror Image, Pass Without Trace, Polymorph, Dimension Door, Dominate Person, and Modify Memory. A few of those are some of the best spells in the game, which other Clerics don't get to play with. It's one of the better Cleric domain spell lists, and probably the best thing about the Trickery subclass.

Besides, they're still Clerics... Which even aside from the various subclass abilities, are one of the better class chassis in the game, IMO.

[aadder]

Blessing of the Trickster is very handy. Nigh-permanent Advantage on Stealth for the group scout is great. Or you can alternately use it help to shore up the weak Stealth of the clumsiest/loudest party member, when doing group stealth checks.

Their Channel Divinity Invoke Duplicity is a niche ability, but potentially useful in limited situations. The fact that it eats your Concentration is what kills it for most combat uses, since Clerics are already overloaded with great Concentration spells, and Trickery Clerics even more so.

Their poison-based Divine Strike definitely sucks, but Clerics can now swap out for radiant damage Blessed Strikes in Tasha's, so that's no longer an issue.

The best thing about the Trickery Cleric is that they have a number of excellent spells that other Clerics don't get access to, including Disguise Self, Mirror Image, Pass Without Trace, Polymorph, Dimension Door, Dominate Person, and Modify Memory. A few of those are some of the best spells in the game, which other Clerics don't get to play with. It's one of the better Cleric domain spell lists, and probably the best thing about the Trickery subclass.



So my thoughts are as follows:

1) I 100% agree on Blessing of the Trickster. I've seen a lot of people talk crap on this ability, but I agree that the ability to buff your least-stealthy party member is amazing, and it's free.

2) I think that there are plenty of spells that don't require concentration that you can get away with it being tied-up. I LOVE Spiritual Weapon, i think it's incredibly cool and the fact that it's a bonus action is great. Mirror Image is another great spell that isn't concentration. Combined with Tasha's boosting your cantrip power, you can spend a lot less of your spells on offensive concentration spells.

3) I love Tasha's so much, but I've been told that a lot of people consider it really optional. As in "I wouldn't EVER allow that book at my table! Twilight Clerics and all that stuff is BROKEN!" kind of optional. So while i really like Blessed Strikes, i feel like i can't count on it.

4) Well see that IS true, their spells are great, but i'm considering multiclassing with a warlock, who already gets access to some of those spells, so it's diminished in value to me. For other people, yes absolutely it's great.