Need advice... Warlock or sorc first on a sorlock build...

[samcifer]

So we're starting a new campaign with rolled stats. Mine are:

16, 14, 13, 13, 10, 8

We start at lv. 4 with nothing special (magical gear, extra feat, etc).

My idea is for a tabaxi sorlock of hexblade + aberrant mind for variety. I want to be able to both sharpshoot as well as use the AM ability to cast AM spells subtly for an archer variation of a gish. Shocker, I AM NOT, taking Eldritch Blast on this build. I'm played a satyr Favored Soul/Celestial sorlock in the last campaign and found my damage was lacking even with up to 6 EB shots per turn (was at lv. 16 at the end of the campaign).

My plan is to SS for most of my damage with the sorc stuff for AoE and a little variety at times during combat.

My question is, should I start at HX 4 with Improved Pact Weapon, a longbow and Sharpshooter, or start off all as AM sorc with either Sharpshooter or +2 to Charisma to max out my main stat (using the special race option to take +2/+1 to stats of my choice).

The theme of the character is that as a child he got sucked into and lost within another dimension and when he came back, he had lost the ability to speak with his mouth (using telepathy and/or minor illusion-created images to communicate with others as well as a penchant for mind magic (hence the Aberrant Mind) and wanting to make himself stronger, takes/took on a pact for the hexblade stuff. The campaign is a homebrew with a heavy jrpg feel and milestone advancement. The dm said to ex[ect to level up after every boss encounter.

I know it's a weird mix, but I've wanted to play an SS build for awhile and still want to have options for occassional AoE damage (which a sniper-like build would lack for the most part). HX feels like the best way to optimize my build with the stats I got.

I'm not sure how to start off the character. Which route would be better?

[Kvess]

You get more out of Sharpshooter when you have multiple attacks. The reason is the feat could allow you to be doing 30 extra points of damage in a round instead of 10.

You are going to get a second attack at Warlock 5 with Thirsting Blade, so that would be my priority. If you want a third attack, crossbow expert allows you to make an extra attack with hand crossbows as a bonus action.

If you aren’t taking Eldritch Blast, I don’t think you get much out of a Warlock / Sorcerer multi class. The big benefit to that multi class combo is casting Quicken on Eldritch Blast, paired with Agonizing Blast and Hex to do up to 6d10+6d6+30 damage in a round at Level 11 by burning two sorcery points. If that doesn’t interest you, you might be better off sticking with Warlock — and either go with the Great Old One patron or pick up the telepathic feat to deal with communication.

My other suggestion would be to consider an Eldritch Knight Fighter. They get more attacks, action surge, extra feats (for picking up crossbow expert and telepathic), the archery fighting style, and they get evocation spells when you want to throw an AOE at your enemies.

[samcifer]

You get more out of Sharpshooter when you have multiple attacks. The reason is the feat could allow you to be doing 30 extra points of damage in a round instead of 10.

You are going to get a second attack at Warlock 5 with Thirsting Blade, so that would be my priority. If you want a third attack, crossbow expert allows you to make an extra attack with hand crossbows as a bonus action.

If you aren’t taking Eldritch Blast, I don’t think you get much out of a Warlock / Sorcerer multi class. The big benefit to that multi class combo is casting Quicken on Eldritch Blast, paired with Agonizing Blast and Hex to do up to 6d10+6d6+30 damage in a round at Level 11 by burning two sorcery points. If that doesn’t interest you, you might be better off sticking with Warlock — and either go with the Great Old One patron or pick up the telepathic feat to deal with communication.

My other suggestion would be to consider an Eldritch Knight Fighter. They get more attacks, action surge, extra feats (for picking up crossbow expert and telepathic), the archery fighting style, and they get evocation spells when you want to throw an AOE at your enemies.

Well, if I were to go EK, I could get sharpshooter and the archery fighting style right away, then get dex maxed out at lv. 6 and INT up to 16 at lv. 8 (from 14 at lv. 4). By then I'd get access to Shatter for an AoE. I could get Message or Minor Illusion to cover communicating with others.

[RogueJK]

My plan is to SS for most of my damage with the sorc stuff for AoE and a little variety at times during combat.


I definitely wouldn't plan to rely on Sharpshooter on most of your attacks on a Tier 1 Sorlock.

Note that a Level 4 Hexblade, with an 18 CHA and Improved Pact Weapon, has an attack bonus of +7. If you apply Sharpshooter's -5 to attack, that renders you with a mere +2 attack bonus to your lone attack per turn. That's abysmal. Same as a Level 1 Fighter with a 10 STR. Yeah, when (if) you land your attack you'll do an extra 10 points of damage, which feels good. But you'll miss a whole lot. You'd be better off getting the more reliable 1d8+4 from just the longbow shot with your full +7 attack bonus instead.

Sharpshooter is best utilized at higher levels where your base attack bonus is better, on a build that stacks multiple other means to counteract the -5 to attack (Archery Fighting Style, Bless, a magic bow, a reliable source of Advantage, etc.).

Therefore, I'd hold off on Sharpshooter until later. Instead, consider taking the Fighting Initiate feat for Archery Fighting Style, as one step towards mitigating the later Sharpshooter penalty.


For this Longbow-focused Sorlock concept, I'd start with Sorcerer 1 for CON proficiency for Concentration purposes and some Aberrant Mind abilities right off the bat, then go to Hexblade to 5 for Thirsting Blade's Extra Attack, then back to Sorcerer. Yes, starting Sorcerer delays Extra Attack and your first ASI by one level, but the additional Sorcerer spells and abilities and the bonus to your Concentration is worth the slight delay. (Besides, it still tracks with the Level 6 Extra Attack afforded to other gishes like Valor/Swords Bards and Bladesinger Wizards.)

If starting at Level 4, that would look something like:
Tabaxi Aberrant Mind Sorcerer 1/Hexblade Warlock 3
STR 8
DEX 14
CON 13+1
INT 10
WIS 13
CHA 16+2

Go Pact of the Sword, with Improved Pact Weapon and Devil's Sight invocations, plus one other invocation of your choice like Eldritch Mind or Beguiling Influence. Wear Medium Armor and wield a Longbow.

Sorcerer Cantrips: Mending, Shape Water, Mold Earth, Prestidigitation
Aberrant Mind Cantrip: Mind Sliver (for use instead of longbow against very high AC enemies or enemies behind lots of cover, and to later use alongside a Quickened Save-or-Suck spell that you really want to stick, like your various Aberrant Mind enchantment spells)
Sorcerer Spells: Absorb Elements, Shield
Aberrant Mind Spells: Dissonant Whispers, Arms of Hadar

Warlock Cantrips: Minor Illusion, Mage Hand
Warlock Spells: Armor of Agathys, Hex, Darkness, Shatter (for AoE blast)


From there, take Fighting Initiate: Archery at Hexblade 4 (Character Level 5), and take the Thirsting Blade Invocation at Hexblade 5 (Character Level 6) for Extra Attack. Then take the Quickend Metamagic at Sorcerer 3 (Character Level 8) along with your choice of either Careful or Empowered for AoE purposes, followed by the Sharpshooter feat at Sorcerer 4 (Character Level 9), and +2 CHA at Sorcerer 8 (Character Level 13).



I AM NOT, taking Eldritch Blast on this build. I'm played a satyr Favored Soul/Celestial sorlock in the last campaign and found my damage was lacking even with up to 6 EB shots per turn (was at lv. 16 at the end of the campaign).

Well, understand that this Longbow Sorlock's bow attacks will underperform Eldritch Blast, even with Sharpshooter's added damage. So if you were disappointed with the damage output of a Sorlock using EB, you'll find yourself even more so with a Sorlock using a Longbow.

2x Longbow attacks: Max 2d8+10 (19 avg)
2x Sharpshooter Longbow attacks: Max 2d8+30 (39 avg)

And the attack penalty means that you'll land fewer Sharpshooter hits than you would Eldritch Blast hits with full attack bonus. So overall, your damage contribution will be even lower as a result, due to the greater number of misses.

2x Agonizing Eldritch Blasts: Max 2d10+10 (21 avg)
3x AEBs: Max 3d10+15 (31.5 avg)
4x AEBs: Max 4d10+20 (42 avg)
Plus the ability to double those numbers in a turn on a Sorlock with EB + Quickened EB for 4/6/8 EBs per turn. (You can't Quicken extra Longbow attacks.)
Plus the additional damage from something like Hex on the 3rd or 4th EB, compared to just 2x bow attacks.
Plus additional EB abilities like Repelling Blast/Grasp of Hadar/etc.

Things to consider.

[samcifer]

I definitely wouldn't plan to rely on Sharpshooter on most of your attacks on a Tier 1 Sorlock.

Note that a Level 4 Hexblade, with an 18 CHA and Improved Pact Weapon, has an attack bonus of +7. If you apply Sharpshooter's -5 to attack, that renders you with a mere +2 attack bonus to your lone attack per turn. That's abysmal. Same as a Level 1 Fighter with a 10 STR. Yeah, when (if) you land your attack you'll do an extra 10 points of damage, which feels good. But you'll miss a whole lot. You'd be better off getting the more reliable 1d8+4 from just the longbow shot with your full +7 attack bonus instead.

Sharpshooter is best utilized at higher levels where your base attack bonus is better, on a build that has multiple other means to counteract the -5 to attack (such as Archery Fighting Style, Bless, a reliable source of Advantage, etc.).

Therefore, I'd hold off on Sharpshooter until later. Instead, consider taking the Fighting Initiate feat for Archery Fighting Style, as one step towards mitigating the later Sharpshooter penalty.


For this Longbow-focused Sorlock concept, I'd start with Sorcerer 1 for CON proficiency for Concentration purposes and some Aberrant Mind abilities right off the bat, then go to Hexblade to 5 for Thirsting Blade's Extra Attack, then back to Sorcerer. Yes, starting Sorcerer delays Extra Attack and your first ASI by one level, but the additional Sorcerer spells and abilities and the bonus to your Concentration is worth the slight delay. (Besides, it still tracks with the Level 6 Extra Attack afforded to other gishes like Valor/Swords Bards and Bladesinger Wizards.)

If starting at Level 4, that would look something like:
Tabaxi Aberrant Mind Sorcerer 1/Hexblade Warlock 3
STR 8
DEX 14
CON 13+1
INT 10
WIS 13
CHA 16+2

Go Pact of the Sword, with Improved Pact Weapon and Devil's Sight invocations, plus one other invocation of your choice like Eldritch Mind or Beguiling Influence. Wear Medium Armor and wield a Longbow.

Sorcerer Cantrips: Mending, Shape Water, Mold Earth, Prestidigitation
Aberrant Mind Cantrip: Mind Sliver (for use instead of longbow against very high AC enemies or enemies behind lots of cover, and to later use alongside a Quickened Save-or-Suck spell that you really want to stick, like your various Aberrant Mind enchantment spells)
Sorcerer Spells: Absorb Elements, Shield
Aberrant Mind Spells: Dissonant Whispers, Arms of Hadar

Warlock Cantrips: Minor Illusion, Mage Hand
Warlock Spells: Armor of Agathys, Hex, Darkness, Shatter (for AoE blast)


From there, take Fighting Initiate: Archery at Hexblade 4 (Character Level 5), and take the Thirsting Blade Invocation at Hexblade 5 (Character Level 6) for Extra Attack. Then take the Quickend Metamagic at Sorcerer 3 (Character Level 8) along with your choice of either Careful or Empowered for AoE purposes, followed by the Sharpshooter feat at Sorcerer 4 (Character Level 9), and +2 CHA at Sorcerer 8 (Character Level 13).




Well, understand that this Longbow Sorlock's bow attacks will underperform Eldritch Blast, even with Sharpshooter's added damage. So if you were disappointed with the damage output of a Sorlock using EB, you'll find yourself even more so with a Sorlock using a Longbow.

2x Longbow attacks: Max 2d8+10 (19 avg)
2x Sharpshooter Longbow attacks: Max 2d8+30 (39 avg)

And the attack penalty means that you'll land fewer Sharpshooter hits than you would Eldritch Blast hits with full attack bonus. So overall, your damage contribution will be even lower as a result, due to the greater number of misses.

2x Agonizing Eldritch Blasts: Max 2d10+10 (21 avg)
3x AEBs: Max 3d10+15 (31.5 avg)
4x AEBs: Max 4d10+20 (42 avg)
Plus the ability to double those numbers in a turn on a Sorlock with EB + Quickened EB for 4/6/8 EBs per turn. (You can't Quicken extra Longbow attacks.)
Plus the additional damage from something like Hex on the 3rd or 4th EB, compared to just 2x bow attacks.
Plus additional EB abilities like Repelling Blast/Grasp of Hadar/etc.

Things to consider.

True on the last bit. I've played several sorlock builds and the issue with Hex is that I never felt inclined to activate it. I find that for my playstyle, I'd rather quicken EB for more blasts and the Hex spell and hexblade curse tend to go unused on my characters. Most of our battles tend to only last 3 rounds or so, so the more chances to hit I get, the more damage I can do, at least in my experience. I've also toyed around with an artificer and a ranger build as alternatives, but Arties lack fighting styles and rangers lack AoE spells. I see your point on taking SS later. Would crossbow expert and dual-weilding hand crossbows work better at low levels?

[RogueJK]

Would crossbow expert and dual-weilding hand crossbows work better at low levels?

With XBE, dual-wielding hand crossbows isn't needed. (And is, in fact, counterproductive... You still need a free hand to reload a hand crossbow even with XBE.) Instead, use one Hand Crossbow, and load/fire that same hand crossbow multiple times in a round.

It's workable as a means for an additional Bonus Action ranged attack, with an extra shot at potential Sharpshooter added damage. It has the positive of not requiring Improved Pact Weapon to be used with Hex Warrior, so that frees up an invocation and can be used from Hexblade 1 onward, allowing you to even do something like a Hexblade 1/Sorcerer X Sorlock build using Hand Crossbows. It can also be used in melee range without penalty with XBE. The downside is the Hand Crossbow's greatly reduced range of 30' normally and 120' once Sharpshooter comes online, plus the fact that it takes an additional feat investment for XBE.

In addition, you already have other uses for your Bonus Action: Hex, Hexblade's Curse, Quickened Spells, etc. So those compete with the BA XBE attack.

[samcifer]

With XBE, dual-wielding hand crossbows isn't needed. (And is, in fact, counterproductive... You still need a free hand to reload a hand crossbow even with XBE.) Instead, use one Hand Crossbow, and load/fire that same hand crossbow multiple times in a round.

It's workable as a means for an additional Bonus Action ranged attack, with an extra shot at potential Sharpshooter added damage. It has the positive of not requiring Improved Pact Weapon to be used with Hex Warrior, so that frees up an invocation and can be used from Hexblade 1 onward, allowing you to even do something like a Hexblade 1/Sorcerer X Sorlock build using Hand Crossbows. It can also be used in melee range without penalty with XBE. The downside is the Hand Crossbow's greatly reduced range of 30' normally and 120' once Sharpshooter comes online, plus the fact that it takes an additional feat investment for XBE.

In addition, you already have other uses for your Bonus Action: Hex, Hexblade's Curse, Quickened Spells, etc. So those compete with the BA XBE attack.

What about on an EK instead of a sorlock for XBE? At this point, I'm starting to feel that EK would be better. Yes, I'll have low spell to-hit and save vs., but I'd get a feat free +2 to attacking with archery as well as second wind and action surge, which might be better even with two main attack stats (dex + int). Taking Minor Illusion and Message as my EK cantrips would cover communication limitations from being mute as a character.

[RogueJK]

Taking XBE would likely work more efficiently with an Eldritch Knight, since you not only get to save a feat from not having to take Fighting Initiate, but also get extra ASIs/feats at Levels 6 and 14. Something like this at Level 4:

Tabaxi Eldritch Knight 4
STR 8
DEX 16+2
CON 13+1
INT 14
WIS 13
CHA 10
With the Archery Fighting Style and Crossbow Expert feat. Plan for Sharpshooter at Level 6 (more for the range and cover benefits than the -5/+10 at these earlier levels), then +2 INT at Level 8 and +2 DEX at Level 12.

You'll be much less of a spellcaster than the Sorlock build, and be lacking in AoE spells until you get to higher levels (7 for Shatter and 13 for Fireball), but eventually you'd be better than the Sorlock as a ranged weapon attacker specifically (within 120 feet at least), especially in Tier 3 and 4.


Taking Minor Illusion and Message as my EK cantrips would cover communication limitations from being mute as a character.
I missed the "lost the ability to speak" part of your initial post and character concept. Being mute would severely hamper your spellcasting, since you wouldn't be able to use any spells with Verbal components. Which is most of them. Including Message, which in addition to having a Verbal component in general, specifically states that you must whisper the message to be sent. (It's not Telepathy; just verbal whispering that magically can't be intercepted over overheard.)

To get true Telepathy on a non-Aberrant Mind class, you'd need to be a Ghostwise Halfling, dip a level of Great Old One Warlock, or take the Telepathic feat. And while Telepathy would solve the mundane communication issue, it still wouldn't allow you to cast spells with Verbal components. So that'd still be a big issue.

Therefore, unless you're going with a totally non-spellcasting build like a Battlemaster Fighter Archer, I'd suggest modifying the mute portion of the character concept. Maybe they just prefer not to speak for day to day communication, rather than being unable to speak (and therefore unable to cast spells).

[samcifer]

Taking XBE would likely work more efficiently with an Eldritch Knight, since you not only get to save a feat from not having to take Fighting Initiate, but also get extra ASIs/feats at Levels 6 and 14. Something like this at Level 4:

Tabaxi Eldritch Knight 4
STR 8
DEX 16+2
CON 13+1
INT 14
WIS 13
CHA 10
With the Archery Fighting Style and Crossbow Expert feat. Plan for Sharpshooter at Level 6 (more for the range and cover benefits than the -5/+10 at these earlier levels), then +2 INT at Level 8 and +2 DEX at Level 12.

You'll be much less of a spellcaster than the Sorlock build, and be lacking in AoE spells until you get to high levels, but eventually you'd be better than the Sorlock as a ranged weapon attacker (within 120 feet at least), especially in Tier 3 and 4.


I missed the "lost the ability to speak" part of your initial post and character concept. Being mute would severely hamper your spellcasting, since you wouldn't be able to use any spells with Verbal components. Which is most of them. Including Message, which in addition to having a Verbal component in general, specifically states that you must whisper the message to be sent. (It's not Telepathy; just verbal whispering that magically can't be intercepted over overheard.)

To get true Telepathy on a non-Aberrant Mind class, you'd need to be a Ghostwise Halfling, dip a level of Great Old One Warlock, or take the Telepathic feat. And while Telepathy would solve the mundane communication issue, it still wouldn't allow you to cast spells with Verbal components. So that'd still be a big issue.

Therefore, unless you're going with a totally non-spellcasting build like a Battlemaster Fighter Archer, I'd suggest modifying the mute portion of the character concept. Maybe they just prefer not to speak for day to day communication, rather than being unable to speak (and therefore unable to cast spells).

Ouch! That puts a huge dent in the character concept, then. Oh well, I can skip the muteness aspect then or go with your solution and make him stoic instead of mute.

[Mitchellnotes]

As an alternative to muteness, you could go with a Kenku (if that aspect is more important than being tabaxi). Kenku mimicing sprlls it saw someone use somewhere (imagine the booming voice of an archmage) which would also go well with the stunted eldritch knight spell progression... the kenku is just mimicking what is has seen as opposed to truly understanding the arcane

[Keravath]

I think Rogue covered most of the issues with your Sharpshooting sorlock.

However, you mentioned you were disappointed in the damage you did with 6 Agonizing blasts/turn in tier 3. I'm honestly not sure how you can do any better with any sort of martial build.

A level 16 fighter with SS gets 3 attacks - 4 if using a hand crossbow and xbow expert. Assuming +5 stat this comes up to

4x (d6+5+10) = 4 x 18.5 = 74 damage possible (this is the maximum damage option)

6 x (d10+5) = 6 x (10.5) = 63 damage possible

However, every single one of the sharpshooter attacks has a -5 to hit.

Lets look at a range of scenarios:

Lets say you need to roll a 2 to hit (only miss on a 1)
AB does 19/20 * 63 = 59.85 while SS does 14/20 * 74 = 51.8
Lets say you need to roll a 7 to hit
AB does 14/20 * 63 = 44.1 while SS does 9/20 * 74 = 33.3
Lets say you need to roll a 12 to hit
AB does 9/20 * 63 = 28.35 while SS does 4/20 * 74 = 14.8

... and SS only goes down from there. If you are looking to do more single target damage than AB+quickened AB then you will be very disappointed with SS. SS is fun but it will not outdamage AB+quickened AB when you factor in the -5 to hit in tier 3.

----

Tier 2 is a bit closer since the comparison is 3 attacks to 4 AB rather than 4 to 6.

XBE+SS = 3 x (d6+5+10) [still assuming max stat so late tier 2] = 3 x 18.5 = 55.5
AB+quicken AB = 4 x (d10 + 5) = 42
To hit 2: AB: 19/20 * 42 = 39.9 SS: 14/20 * 55.5 = 38.85
To hit 7: AB: 14/20 * 42 = 28.4 SS: 9/20 * 55.5 = 24.98
To hit 12: AB: 9/20 * 42 = 18.9 SS: 4/20 * 55.5 = 11.1

However, AB+quickened AB is STILL always more damage than SS+XBE.

----

The bottom line is .. if you want to play an SS+XBE build for fun then go for it but it will never outperform an AB+quickened AB build for raw single target damage.*

----

*Note: the one situation where it might get closer is if you have a powerful magical weapon. A +3 hand crossbow would add +3 to both to hit and damage on each attack but you would need to compare that to an AB build with a +3 rod of the pact keeper

What difference does this make in tier 3?

SS base damage goes to 86 with a +3 - both scenarios get an extra +3 to hit so that is a wash - except for cases where both attacks would auto hit on a 2.

Lets say you need to roll a 2 to hit (only miss on a 1)
AB does 19/20 * 63 = 59.85 while SS does 14/20 * 86 = 60.2
Lets say you need to roll a 7 to hit
AB does 14/20 * 63 = 44.1 while SS does 9/20 * 86 = 38.7
Lets say you need to roll a 12 to hit
AB does 9/20 * 63 = 28.35 while SS does 4/20 * 86 = 17.2

-------------------------

TL;DR AB+quickened AB will always do equal or more damage in tier 2,3 - even factoring in +3 weapons in tier 3, AB+quickened AB is still more single target damage so IF "I'm played a satyr Favored Soul/Celestial sorlock in the last campaign and found my damage was lacking even with up to 6 EB shots per turn" your single target damage was lacking even with AB+quickened AB in tier 3 - it can only be worse with SS+XBE.

Conclusion: Play it for fun not for max damage because you have already played the single target max damage style build and found it wanting.

[RogueJK]

However, every single one of the sharpshooter attacks has a -5 to hit.

Yes and no. A SS Bowlock build has the ability to spend ASIs and Invocations to get a +2 to attack rolls from Archery Fighting Style and another +1 from Improved Pact Weapon. So the SS attack roll could potentially only be -2, compared to the EB Warlock's attack roll, as long as the Bowlock is willing to make those further investments. (The Invocations specifically are actually a wash, since the EB Warlock would need to spend an invocation on Agonizing Blast anyway. So it'd just be the extra cost of a feat for Fighting Initiate, or a 1 level Fighter dip.)

Even the posited Level 16 Fighter would have Archery Fighting style, for a comparative -3 to attack.

A magic bow could help even further with limiting the comparative attack penalty, considering magic items that boost your spell attack rolls are less common than magical weapons in most campaigns.

[samcifer]

Granted, I'm likely making an unreasonable comparison to other pcs in my play-group as there has often been a paladin and a barbarian in the group. I know full well that I'll never get to the level of damage a paladin can deal, but with a warlock or ranger I could match the damage a barb can do, except at range. After several sessions of sorlocks, maybe I'm just kind of bored with doing endless EBs all the time even though that's how I started this thread. :P

[Gignere]

Granted, I'm likely making an unreasonable comparison to other pcs in my play-group as there has often been a paladin and a barbarian in the group. I know full well that I'll never get to the level of damage a paladin can deal, but with a warlock or ranger I could match the damage a barb can do, except at range. After several sessions of sorlocks, maybe I'm just kind of bored with doing endless EBs all the time even though that's how I started this thread. :P

A fighter with sharpshooter can exceed the damage a Paladin brings, unless the Paladin goes full nova.

[samcifer]

A fighter with sharpshooter can exceed the damage a Paladin brings, unless the Paladin goes full nova.

A paladin without gwm vs a fighter with ss or gwm and 3 attacks per round without using act surge?


EDIT: so I mentioned my character change to another player from the group who said that a spell focus allowed a player to circumvent verbal and somatic requirements of spellcasting. If so, that would allow me to play the character the way I want to.

[samcifer]

A paladin without gwm vs a fighter with ss or gwm and 3 attacks per round without using act surge?


EDIT: so I mentioned my character change to another player from the group who said that a spell focus allowed a player to circumvent verbal and somatic requirements of spellcasting. If so, that would allow me to play the character the way I want to.

Anyone have an answer on this? :)

[Gignere]

Anyone have an answer on this? :)

No it does not it only eliminates materials without a cost. It does not remove the need for somatic and verbal components.

[samcifer]

No it does not it only eliminates materials without a cost. It does not remove the need for somatic and verbal components.

Okay, yeah. Stoic instead of mute it'll have to be, I guess. :(

[RogueJK]

If you really want the character to be mute, you could still roll with that, provided you're willing to give up the spellcasting aspect.

Instead, you could do something like this:

Tabaxi Fighter (Arcane Archer or Psi Warrior) 4
STR 10
DEX 16+2
CON 14
INT 13
WIS 13+1
CHA 8

Go with Archery fighting style, and take the Telepathic feat (with +1 INT for 14 INT) as your Level 4 ASI. Plan on +2 INT at 6, Sharpshooter at Level 8, and +2 DEX at 12.

Arcane Archer, while a noticeably weak subclass overall, does get you some spell-like magical abilities that don't rely on actual spellcasting or speaking. This includes the Bursting Arrow ability, which gives you an option for magical AOE damage with your arrows.

Psi Warrior is a better subclass overall, and also gets you some additional psychic abilities (including Telekinesis), but doesn't have any built-in AOE effects.

[quindraco]

Okay, yeah. Stoic instead of mute it'll have to be, I guess. :(

The only way I can think of to be a mute spellcaster without running into serious problems is... well, I suppose it depends on how you define "serious". But if you want me to avoid assuming you can buy an infinite amount of diamond dust, I'll need you to be a Mark of Healing Halfling. If you can buy the dust, I don't need to ensure you can supply the dust yourself, so instead of restricting your race, I can restrict your subclass.

But a Mark of Healing Halfling Genielock 17/Sorcerer 3, unless stopped with a house rule, has infinite spell slots, which means provided you're willing to spend the action economy on it, you can't run out of sorcery points, which means every spell you cast can be subtle.

Genielock is necessary for Wish - you run an infinite Simulacrum loop so you have infinite Wishes, and use them to never sleep - standard issue Cocainelock, except you don't need material components for your greater restoration or simulacrum spells. Then you just keep eating your short rest spell slots, producing spell slots from the points, and short resting to get the short rest slots back.

If you can be counted on to find a diamond dust supplier, Divine Soul Sorcerer 9, Clockwork Soul Sorcerer 9, and Celestial Warlock 9 can all give you the Greater Restoration spell known, and Warlock 9 gives you the slot you need to cast it with a short rest.

[samcifer]

So we had the first session last night and I went with the following:

Tabaxi eldritch Knight
10 STR, 18 DEX (16 + 2), 14 Con (13+1), 14 INT, 13 WIS, 6 CHA
Archery fighting style, Crossbow Expert feat, a hand crossbow and a whip as my bonded weapons. Leather Armor
Skill profs: Athletics, Arcana, Perception, Stealth, Sleight of Hand, Survival
Urchin Background (chose Arcana for his other skill besides Sleight of Hand)

Spells:

Cantrips: Mind Sliver and Minor Illusion

Lv: 1: Expeditious Retreat, Shield, Burning Hands and Magic Missile


I gave him a stoic personality like the archer kid in Jet's group from Avatar: The Last Airbender so he can talk, but talks only in near-pigeon English (Common). He's not dumb, he just hates talking much.

First session went okay except for the group's blade singer, who got hit with 2 crits from gnolls and found that high AC + low HP are not a good mix. He survived, but wasn't happy about it.

So as for Crossbow Expert... Do you get to add your dex bonus to the damage? I was acting as if you would not.

[RogueJK]

So as for Crossbow Expert... Do you get to add your dex bonus to the damage? I was acting as if you would not.

Yes. XBE feat gives you a Bonus Action standard hand crossbow attack, so 1d6+DEX.

It's not a TWF offhand attack with no damage bonus.

[Gignere]

Yes. XBE feat gives you a Bonus Action standard hand crossbow attack, so 1d4+DEX.

It's not a TWF offhand attack with no damage bonus.

I believe it’s a d6 + dex not d4. It is better than PAM in that respect.

[RogueJK]

That is correct. Hand Crossbow is 1d6+DEX, not 1d4+DEX.