Help Stopping a Demonic Cult

[HumanFighter]

As the GM of my current Tabletop group, I have started a plotline in my campaign where basically a group of demonic cultists have started opening up Hell Gates all across the Mortal Realm, causing squadrons of vicious demons to attack the populace. The players (and their characters) are on board to stop them (for one reason or another) but I feel I have bit off a bit more than I can chew with this one, so to speak.
The demon cultists, who call themselves the Tartumians, are a relatively new faction in the world (they have only been around for about 50 years or so) but they have somehow managed to get their fingers in many important other factions and groups across the world. They do not worship the demons, but are instead a group of powerful sorcerers and rich men who seek to control the power of demons for their own gain and advancement of power. They also believe that the world has become too overpopulated with "the weak" and those they consider weak must be purged from existence. They're in it for more money and power, basically. Demons are just their preferred weapon to get it.
I'm just having trouble figuring out how the players will ever hope to stop them. One big base where all of them huddle together and can be blown up? Nah, too simple and easy. But I want to give the players some sort of an "out" ...a way they can find and destroy them before it's too late and the world is totally screwed. Any ideas?

[King of Nowhere]

if this is a huge organization that the players can't hope to destroy on their own, maybe have them rally their own faction. after all, i'm pretty sure the majority of people would not want demons around, so they'd rather side with the pcs.

introduce into the world other powerful people that could become allies with the pcs. give them some goals that are independent from it, possibly spurring some sidequests, or possibly giving a more political side to your campaign (depending on your table's tastes). have the party gradually form their own power group. eventually, the tartumians will be outpowered

[Tvtyrant]

There are a bunch:

Find and publish their membership roster. These other organizations can purge their own members.

Destroy their demon controls, so the demons go eat their summoners.

Summon angels to fight the demons.

Go to hell and convince the demons not to work with the cabal.

[InvisibleBison]

Isn't figuring out how to stop the bad guys the players' job? Why do you feel the need to come up with a solution of your own?

[TheStranger]

Pyrrhic victory option: disable the Hell Gates by cutting the Mortal Realm off from the planes entirely. Exact consequences TBD depending on the details of your cosmology, and undoing the damage may be the next adventure.

[False God]

Convince the demons to help. The last thing demons want is to be ruled by a bunch of humans. Wouldn't it be funny if the first things the demons killed when they entered the mortal realm was the people who summoned them?

[Tarmor]

As was already mentioned, the Players should be making suggestions about how they think they could stop things, and you can base ideas/solutions on that.
Other suggestions:
- Get a demon (captured/compelled/trade of information/offer of freedom, etc) to explain how/where or who summoned them
- Use divination or mundane means to get ideas on who would profit (person or group), who's acting differently, etc to identify at least one member
- Locating or defeating one member can give clues or actual information on other members
- Introduce an ally who suspects a group member or location used for summoning, but needs assistance to prove their suspicions or take on the person

[Xervous]

Pyrrhic victory option: disable the Hell Gates by cutting the Mortal Realm off from the planes entirely. Exact consequences TBD depending on the details of your cosmology, and undoing the damage may be the next adventure.

Oh look, the concept behind my first campaign world.

The simplest progression looks to be:
1. Fight off local demons
2. Smash one portal
3. Deal with one big maker of portals
4. Arrange the big thing that can deal with portals for the foreseeable future

[HumanFighter]

These are some great suggestions, guys. Thank you!
At first I thought I would let the players figure things out for themselves, as I usually do. For example, I never tell my players to roll Insight or Sense Motive checks against NPCs who might be lying or telling the truth, they have to think of it and declare it themselves.
But as a GM, sometimes you have to extend a helping hand to your players and maybe give them a hint or two. But I don't believe in giving them too much help.
I thought about introducing some powerful NPCs and/or Factions to help the players with this Hell Gate/Tartumian crisis, but I don't want NPCs outshining the players and "taking them along for the ride" so to speak, because this campaign is the players' story. They're the stars of the show, not the world or its NPCs. And besides, we already have a witch in the party who is an expert on demons and their weaknesses, and who is sworn to kill any demon she encounters (with a gun).
Still, very helpful ideas, guys. I think this might go from an almost-botched plotline to a good one, possibly even a memorable one :smallbiggrin:

[Ninja Bear]

If this isn't an organization of "true believers," and instead is mostly just full of people trying to exploit powerful evil beings for their own personal gain, how much internal cohesion does it have?

Seems like it's not too much of a logical leap for people to go "I will exploit this powerful evil creature, the foul demon Ak'gyxoth, for money and power, for I am better and cleverer than him" to "I will exploit this powerful evil creature, my buddy Steve...."

You could even have a cult member directly hire the party to bump off his superior in the cult and "make it look like an accident, er, make it look like a heroism," that sort of thing.

[Slipjig]

Depending on what your players already know, you could have it turn out that the cult is much smaller than they claimed. If you've already shown the players conclusively that it's a huge organization, have it turn out that the "purge the weak" group is actually a small splinter faction, while the main body of the cult wants to rule from the shadows, Illuminati-style. The main cult might even be an ally of convenience to the PCs.

[HumanFighter]

Isn't figuring out how to stop the bad guys the players' job?

Yes, but I am the kind of GM who does not want his players to be totally left in the dark, otherwise the players may become frustrated and give up, and the plotline goes nowhere.
I was simply looking for advice on how to properly throw them a bone here

[paddyfool]

I'd like to recommend an online webfiction where the main character is opposed to a faction trying to do quite a lot of what you describe. It could be worth mining for ideas.

Mother of Learning (https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/21220/mother-of-learning)

Although stopping the cult is far from the only thing going on in that story

[Anonymouswizard]

Fifty years is a long time, and it sounds like the members might have been well established before forming the group. This makes it pretty difficult to take down.

Side note, how do other organisations in the same field feel about this organisation? You don't make a play for occult power without annoying somebody else who wants or has occult power, and the same applies to other kinds of power. If the party isn't overly picky about their allies they could give some slightly more wholesome underground groups who are against this group.

It's also probably better to attack power bases rather than to fight directly. Damage reputations, plant evidence that the cult members have been ordering that milk be watered down, start political movements, create proof that they're sleeping with the mayor's husband, summon a demon* to rob the bank vaults of every other member (just make sure to have enough souls to pay them). And be as anonymous as possible, you don't want the demons getting too you out anybody who associated with you.

This honestly might be easier to pull off than with people doing this because of faith. If I have faith in the demons I'm serving I'll continue even when my back's to the wall. If I'm doing this for profit I'm going to stop if using demons isn't profitable. If you have long enough you could work out how the demons are being used, devise countermeasure, and then spread the counters.

* Using the same means as your opponents isn't for every game. But such things can be really fun.

[KorvinStarmast]

Default Help Stopping a Demonic Cult. Any ideas?
Nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure. :smallcool:

[Bohandas]

*Summoning the heavenly host
*Bringing in an opposed Blood War faction
*some kind of macguffin artifact, possibly the Rod of Seven Parts
*fight the cult leader for control like in The Chronicles of Riddick
*Train the populace to fight demons
*inquisition
*witch trials
*pay them off

[Squire Doodad]

It's also probably better to attack power bases rather than to fight directly. Damage reputations, plant evidence that the cult members have been ordering that milk be watered down, start political movements, create proof that they're sleeping with the mayor's husband, summon a demon* to rob the bank vaults of every other member (just make sure to have enough souls to pay them). And be as anonymous as possible, you don't want the demons getting too you out anybody who associated with you.

Hey now, be careful when spreading rumors like that. You don't want the party to be just as bad as the cult they're fighting against :smalltongue:

[KorvinStarmast]

*inquisition
*witch trials
Required custom magic item will be The Comfy Chair!

[Anonymouswizard]

Required custom magic item will be The Comfy Chair!

Innocenxe still proves nothing.

[HumanFighter]

Fifty years is a long time, and it sounds like the members might have been well established before forming the group. This makes it pretty difficult to take down.

Side note, how do other organisations in the same field feel about this organisation? You don't make a play for occult power without annoying somebody else who wants or has occult power, and the same applies to other kinds of power. If the party isn't overly picky about their allies they could give some slightly more wholesome underground groups who are against this group.

It's also probably better to attack power bases rather than to fight directly. Damage reputations, plant evidence that the cult members have been ordering that milk be watered down, start political movements, create proof that they're sleeping with the mayor's husband, summon a demon* to rob the bank vaults of every other member (just make sure to have enough souls to pay them). And be as anonymous as possible, you don't want the demons getting too you out anybody who associated with you.

This honestly might be easier to pull off than with people doing this because of faith. If I have faith in the demons I'm serving I'll continue even when my back's to the wall. If I'm doing this for profit I'm going to stop if using demons isn't profitable. If you have long enough you could work out how the demons are being used, devise countermeasure, and then spread the counters.

* Using the same means as your opponents isn't for every game. But such things can be really fun.

There was something of a demonic cult already, before the Tartumians came around, known as Nathilza's Brotherhood, who were using blood magic to create magical items and eventually their goal was to summon a giant colossus fueled by the pain of mortals, to destroy a city that spurned Nathilza, their leader. However, the Tartumians had so much wealth that they eventually assimilated the entire brotherhood into their own ranks, ousting Nathilza, who ended up in hell. I was thinking Nathilza would be a great ally for the party against the Tartumians, since he hates the Tartumians so much for stealing his cult, and he is a powerful warrior, if the party can free him.

There is another evil faction of great power, the Court of Villainy (the name is a little on the nose, I know.) At first these two factions hated each other, and were bitter rivals. There was a great battle (in which it was a draw) between them and this caused them to have a truce and begin to develop mutual respect for each other. They work together on occasion, but the truce might be broken any day now.

There once was an artifact used long ago, the Ciridon Staff, that sent all the demons back to hell when they tried invading the mortal realm. This was centuries ago, however, and the staff has since been split into 7 pieces. If the party can find all 7 pieces of this staff, they can send all the demons away and end this invasion before it even really becomes a huge problem.

[Psyren]

As the GM of my current Tabletop group, I have started a plotline in my campaign where basically a group of demonic cultists have started opening up Hell Gates all across the Mortal Realm, causing squadrons of vicious demons to attack the populace.


But I want to give the players some sort of an "out" ...a way they can find and destroy them before it's too late and the world is totally screwed. Any ideas?

How are they doing the bold bit? I'm not sure what system you're playing, but in D&D, opening free-standing planar Gates all over the place would mean an extremely powerful cult, with multiple members capable of 9th-level spells all spread out across the continent or planet. That is, unless they're using a macguffin (e.g. artifact or ritual) of some kind, in which case the PCs course of action is clear.

In short - figure out how the cult can do this and the PCs' means of stopping them should become apparent, even if it's difficult.

[paddyfool]

Maybe also ask yourself what your players would enjoy.

If they'd enjoy a game of intrigue and alliance forging, let them forge an alliance of disparate individuals powerful enough to take on this cult and the hordes of hell they can summon.

If they'd enjoy heroically questing for macguffins, let them quest for them, such as seeking out the pieces of the staff or saving Saint Macguffin from the very sacrificial alter of the cult to stymie their opening up the hellgates.

(If they just want to have a power trip where their heroes progress in level to such an extent that they can take on the hordes of hell directly in person without macguffins or allies, you may have a bit of a problem on your hands).

Maybe try them out on a bit of both of the first two approaches, and see what works for your table.

[Bohandas]

How are they doing the bold bit? I'm not sure what system you're playing, but in D&D, opening free-standing planar Gates all over the place would mean an extremely powerful cult, with multiple members capable of 9th-level spells all spread out across the continent or planet. That is, unless they're using a macguffin (e.g. artifact or ritual) of some kind, in which case the PCs course of action is clear.

IIRC both Tome of Foes and Book of Vile Darkness mention the possibility of rifts opening to the lower planes if enough messed up stuff happens in one area

Found it: "If the first stage of the infection continues long enough, a portal opens in the corrupted environment that connects to a random location in the Abyss." -Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes pg24

(I think I was wrong about Book of Vile Darkness though. The section I thought mentioned it only mentioned mundane rifts forming in the landscape)

[Psyren]

IIRC both Tome of Foes and Book of Vile Darkness mention the possibility of rifts opening to the lower planes if enough messed up stuff happens in one area

Found it: "If the first stage of the infection continues long enough, a portal opens in the corrupted environment that connects to a random location in the Abyss." -Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes pg24

(I think I was wrong about Book of Vile Darkness though. The section I thought mentioned it only mentioned mundane rifts forming in the landscape)

Putting aside that those books are from different editions of the game though, that passage seems to be referring to a very long period of corruption and depravity weakening the space between those worlds in a highly localized area. It's not really the kind of thing a bunch of cultists can effect spontaneously/simultaneously all over the map, unless they've had this plan in motion for a very long time uninterrupted and unnoticed. I'd expect this method to be used for a single portal in their backyard, somewhere they've been conducting routine sacrifices for instance.

[Tvtyrant]

Putting aside that those books are from different editions of the game though, that passage seems to be referring to a very long period of corruption and depravity weakening the space between those worlds in a highly localized area. It's not really the kind of thing a bunch of cultists can effect spontaneously/simultaneously all over the map, unless they've had this plan in motion for a very long time uninterrupted and unnoticed. I'd expect this method to be used for a single portal in their backyard, somewhere they've been conducting routine sacrifices for instance.

Depends on what the horrible thing entails. My current setting Atlo runs on basically that idea. Human sacrifices can be used to pierce the afterlife and pull through demons, which are used for a variety of things (like powering magic items.) They used mass human sacrifice to accomplish it (its rare now because it contaminates the world for long periods of time like Evil radiation.)

But the type of sacrifice could certainly be smaller and more specific. Getting a twin to murder the other, say, could immediately accomplish it because it is so horrible an atrocity. Or maybe the rules are really weird, like a Halfling woman killing an orc man on their birthday if they share one. Then its a matter of coming the world for esoteric circumstances and setting the plot in motion.

[Bohandas]

But the type of sacrifice could certainly be smaller and more specific. Getting a twin to murder the other, say, could immediately accomplish it because it is so horrible an atrocity. Or maybe the rules are really weird, like a Halfling woman killing an orc man on their birthday if they share one. Then its a matter of coming the world for esoteric circumstances and setting the plot in motion.

I like that! That would make a great set up for a mystery. Like there's all these murders occurring under bizarre conditions and the PCs have to find out why.

[Tvtyrant]

I like that! That would make a great set up for a mystery. Like there's all these murders occurring under bizarre conditions and the PCs have to find out why.

You could even add something like.the Elder Evil signs in as reality starts to crack.

[Anonymouswizard]

I personally like the idea of it being relatively easy to tear open a massive hole to another plane, the problem is making sure it closes again (either immediatelty or when you no longer need said hole).

Although if you're just using the demons as tools it's almost certainly easier to summon up one or two via standard means and then bind them to your will than to open the gates of hell. So why has this group decided that that price is too much to pay compared to tearing multiple holes in reality?

[Bohandas]

I personally like the idea of it being relatively easy to tear open a massive hole to another plane, the problem is making sure it closes again (either immediatelty or when you no longer need said hole).

Although if you're just using the demons as tools it's almost certainly easier to summon up one or two via standard means and then bind them to your will than to open the gates of hell. So why has this group decided that that price is too much to pay compared to tearing multiple holes in reality?

Those summoning spells don't last very long. I don;t know about 5e, but in 3.5e Summon Monster topped out at 2 minutes duration, unless you were epic level.

You don't start getting longer lasting spells like Halaster's Fetch until you get access to fourth level spells

EDIT:
And conversely, simple murder can be accomplished just with Ray of Frost

[Anonymouswizard]

Those summoning spells don't last very long. I don;t know about 5e, but in 3.5e Summon Monster topped out at 2 minutes duration, unless you were epic level.

You don't start getting longer lasting spells like Halaster's Fetch until you get access to fourth level spells

EDIT:
And conversely, simple murder can be accomplished just with Ray of Frost

You're jumping to conclusions. No system has been specified, and in many stunning are either shines to be for extended periods of in combat and or of combat summoning spells different durations. And that's not even getting into the realm of NPC-only spells and rituals.

[Kardwill]

You could even have a cult member directly hire the party to bump off his superior in the cult and "make it look like an accident, er, make it look like a heroism," that sort of thing.

Or have a renegade "cult" member become a potential ally of the PCs (Because he thinks they're going too far, because he wants to weaken his competition, because the others wnat him dead for some reason). Having someone with insider knowledge

Overall, if the opposition you put on your players' path seems too strong, you can give them weaknesses
- Internal conflict : They're a bunch of jackals often turning against each other. or maybe all of them don't have the same objective. Maybe there is a real Doomsday-demon-loving-cult among them, or people convinced they can do good?
- Unreliable tools : The ritual they use to summon demons have one critical weakness, and dealing with it can deal with the threat. For example, their magic is powered by some artefact or some demon lord, and destroying/taking/exiling it will cut most of their magical ability. They'll still be a dangerous cabal of hostile, malevolent, powerful people, but not an existential threat. Or maybe the way they communicate, or their mundane agents, can be exploited against them?
- Hubris and overconfidence : They have trouble controling the demons they summon, of their portal magic. When they summoned small stuff, they could manage, but as they gain confidence and try bigger schemes, things become dangerous, and maybe the PCs can push that "unreliability"
- External enemies : If those guys blew up their cover (and, given their blatant demon-summoning trick, it's likely), then some other group of people (a concil of lords, a paladin order, a church, a secret society of mages, a demon lord, another evil organisation) will take notice and take action. Even if said faction don't ally with the PCs, that will create openings that the players can encourage or exploit.

But mostly? Let the players have knowledge about this organisations and general stuff about the fact that they've got weaknesses, and run with anything they decide to work with. For example, if a knowledgeable PC investigates the demon portals, have thiose portals have some sort of explotable signature or weakness. If they look for allies, allow them to contact a rival organisation. If they try to speak with the demons, make those demons disloyal to the cabal. Listen to their ideas, they should do the heavy "brainstorm" lifting for you ^^

[SpoonR]

All of the above, plus:

Redirect the portals to a realm of good.
Summon bigger rock-demon
Evil people working together to get more power? Who gets to be #1 after the summoning is complete? Encourage the wannabee evilest.
Thief 1; replace a critical component with a fake.
Antimagic shell, sphere of annihilation, other “ultimate power to prevent planar travel” mcguffin.
Talk to the demons’ boss about these mortals putting boss out of a job

Exploit internal divisions, find bigger hammer, do something on the other end of the portal. Most solutions will be one of those three.

[HumanFighter]

Yes, there is a way to close these infernal hell gates, though I'm not sure u would call it a weakness. To close a demonic portal, you must go from the mortal realm through the gate to the other side, fighting through demons along the way. Somewhere nearby (and it has to be close by, like, less than a mile otherwise the magic won't work) there is what's called an "Anchor" basically someone who volunteered their life (typically a cult member) or someone they captured and forced against their will (this cult kidnaps a lot of people). This person's life is bound to the hell gate and it is their lifeforce that is keeping it open.
Killing this person, this "Anchor" will close the gate, but not immediately. PCs have about 7 minutes before the gate totally closes. If they fail to make it in time (sometimes this requires a skill challenge depending on terrain) then they are trapped in the infernal realm until they have found another gate that has opened up.

[False God]

Yes, there is a way to close these infernal hell gates, though I'm not sure u would call it a weakness. To close a demonic portal, you must go from the mortal realm through the gate to the other side, fighting through demons along the way. Somewhere nearby (and it has to be close by, like, less than a mile otherwise the magic won't work) there is what's called an "Anchor" basically someone who volunteered their life (typically a cult member) or someone they captured and forced against their will (this cult kidnaps a lot of people). This person's life is bound to the hell gate and it is their lifeforce that is keeping it open.
Killing this person, this "Anchor" will close the gate, but not immediately. PCs have about 7 minutes before the gate totally closes. If they fail to make it in time (sometimes this requires a skill challenge depending on terrain) then they are trapped in the infernal realm until they have found another gate that has opened up.

Sooooo, your plot is ES IV: Oblivion?

[HumanFighter]

Sooooo, your plot is ES IV: Oblivion?

Haha, yes. But I'm putting my own twist on it. Making the anchor an actual person you have to kill makes it more dramatic, I thought, than simply taking a sigil stone. And i don't have to worry about unbalancing the game by handing out a magic item every time a gate is closed. Smart observation there, though :smallwink:

[Anonymouswizard]

Yes, there is a way to close these infernal hell gates, though I'm not sure u would call it a weakness. To close a demonic portal, you must go from the mortal realm through the gate to the other side, fighting through demons along the way. Somewhere nearby (and it has to be close by, like, less than a mile otherwise the magic won't work) there is what's called an "Anchor" basically someone who volunteered their life (typically a cult member) or someone they captured and forced against their will (this cult kidnaps a lot of people). This person's life is bound to the hell gate and it is their lifeforce that is keeping it open.
Killing this person, this "Anchor" will close the gate, but not immediately. PCs have about 7 minutes before the gate totally closes. If they fail to make it in time (sometimes this requires a skill challenge depending on terrain) then they are trapped in the infernal realm until they have found another gate that has opened up.

Why aren't these anchors heavily guarded, ideally in a ten by ten foot cavern 0.9 miles under the hellgate which scrubs it's air and produces food? Connecting tunnels filled in with stone of course. I'm presuming this hellgate is something the demons/devils care about as well as the cult members, so they'll want to protect the anchor as best they can.

Actually, what benefit do the cult members get out of this hellgate? Seems like it'll tend to make the surrounding area pretty unexploitable, are they planning to destroy farmland to drive up the market value of the courgettes their farms produce or something?

[HumanFighter]

Why aren't these anchors heavily guarded, ideally in a ten by ten foot cavern 0.9 miles under the hellgate which scrubs it's air and produces food? Connecting tunnels filled in with stone of course. I'm presuming this hellgate is something the demons/devils care about as well as the cult members, so they'll want to protect the anchor as best they can.

Actually, what benefit do the cult members get out of this hellgate? Seems like it'll tend to make the surrounding area pretty unexploitable, are they planning to destroy farmland to drive up the market value of the courgettes their farms produce or something?

Some anchors are more well-guarded than others, depending on the location of the gate and its strategic importance in the world.
And yeah, basically the cult wants to control the world through fear, beating it into submission with repeatable demonic invasions. Some want to completely destroy the world in this manner, and then rebuild it in their horrific image, but only the extremists really want that. If a few farmlands have to suffer for this dream, so be it. Sometimes you have to break a few eggs before you can make a demonic omelette :smallbiggrin:

[paddyfool]

Why aren't these anchors heavily guarded, ideally in a ten by ten foot cavern 0.9 miles under the hellgate which scrubs it's air and produces food? Connecting tunnels filled in with stone of course. I'm presuming this hellgate is something the demons/devils care about as well as the cult members, so they'll want to protect the anchor as best they can.


If I was designing the fortifications, I wouldn't place it directly down, but as one of many potential subterranean locations at various angles down, with the others containing heavily booby-trapped decoys...

Still, the DM can avoid placing such frustrations in the path of the PCs with a few plot features:
- First gate the party encounters? Maybe the cult didn't seriously expect their opponents to venture into hell to shut it down, so the protections were relatively light.
- Newly formed gate? Maybe the anchor had to be much closer than the 1 mile limit for the gate forming ceremony, and is still being moved if the party move in right away.
- Hell a fractious place? Maybe if the assault is carefully timed, the defences may already be weakened by infighting.

Successive gate dives should, of course, meet stiffer and stiffer resistance and nastier traps / fortifications.

[karenmane]

Putting aside that those books are from different editions of the game though, that passage seems to be referring to a very long period of corruption and depravity weakening the space between those worlds in a highly localized area. It's not really the kind of thing a bunch of cultists can effect spontaneously/simultaneously all over the map, unless they've had this plan in motion for a very long time uninterrupted and unnoticed. I'd expect this method to be used for a single portal in their backyard, somewhere they've been conducting routine sacrifices for instance.

[HumanFighter]

Putting aside that those books are from different editions of the game though, that passage seems to be referring to a very long period of corruption and depravity weakening the space between those worlds in a highly localized area. It's not really the kind of thing a bunch of cultists can effect spontaneously/simultaneously all over the map, unless they've had this plan in motion for a very long time uninterrupted and unnoticed. I'd expect this method to be used for a single portal in their backyard, somewhere they've been conducting routine sacrifices for instance.

That is a very interesting idea, thanks for that. I can imagine a place in the world that's always been haunted, and that would make it easier for the cultists to open their little portals.