What school of magic do devil's use specifically the high ranking one

[BAR4466]

Hello, i am looking for information about the possibility of using the severed hand of an archduke as a magic catalyst for a mage/fighter build , and i was wondering what sort of magic school Would fitt into role playing that.

For a bit of context my character is going to be human who manages to escape one of the layers of hell after he betrayed his archduke master and took his hand after he lost his in the fight. Afterwards he comes back to the mortel realm with amnesia.

* I never played d&d at all but i want to get into it with my friends so any tips will be welcome thanks in advance.

[Aett_Thorn]

First off, welcome to the game!

Secondly, this seems more like a Warlock focus than a Wizard one. Feel free to use it like you planned, but Wizards usually study to use magic, where Warlocks get it from a deal or bargain with a powerful entity (or with a powerful magical item).

Demons and Devils are probably mostly known for Evocation and Necromancy magic, and a severed hand as a focus would lean more towards Necromancy, I would think. Even if you don’t want to animate undead, Necromancy has a decent amount of good, thematic spells for your idea.

[quindraco]

Hello, i am looking for information about the possibility of using the severed hand of an archduke as a magic catalyst for a mage/fighter build , and i was wondering what sort of magic school Would fitt into role playing that.

For a bit of context my character is going to be human who manages to escape one of the layers of hell after he betrayed his archduke master and took his hand after he lost his in the fight. Afterwards he comes back to the mortel realm with amnesia.

* I never played d&d at all but i want to get into it with my friends so any tips will be welcome thanks in advance.

Magic schools are (allegedly) about the functionality of the spells in them - e.g. evocation is about destrustive energies, while enchantment is about mind control. None of them would be particularly suitable or unsuitable for using a fiendish totem as an arcane focus. Thematically, your question is better answered by specifying that the class/subclass most likely to use such a thing would be a warlock, potentially but not necessarily pacted to "The Fiend", because the archduke's enemies would be quite keen on supporting someone so competent as to injure their foe like that, and an archduke's most immediate and most likely to know about this fight enemies are fellow archdukes.

I have good news and bad news for you.

Good news: Even if you're not a warlock, other spellcasting classes can be reflavored to fit. So for example if you're actually an Eldritch Knight, you can be reflavored as you like in terms of the hand - I'm not sure if you want to be dependent on the hand for your magic, studying it, etc, but whatever your take is, you can fluff your EK however you like and the rest won't "break".

Bad news: There is simply no way a level 1 adventurer is cutting the hand off an archduke. Archdukes are more powerful than the most powerful standard (we're getting a new book soon with a new power grade, hence my use of the term standard) dragons. Monsters are measured by CR. The most powerful dragons we know of are CR 24 and the weakest archduke we know of is CR 26. The idea you could cut a hand off is ludicrous; rolling nothing but the highest possible numbers on all of your dice, the lowest level where I can come up with an action plan for cutting her hand off is 14ish, and while I'm sure it can be done below level 14 with more optimization steps, there's just no way you're doing it at level 1. Far more plausible is a genuinely worthy adversary cut your archduke's hand off and you grabbed it.

Neutral news (bad for your character, good for you): This does boop a serious plot button - you've pissed off something easily capable of bypassing national-grade defenses to get to you. Your character probably doesn't have long to live, but it's bound to be an exciting ride!

[BAR4466]

Thanks a lot but i was going towards a very complex character that lived in hell for over a 300 hundred years. The basic deal will be that he made a deal while being a live and then became a Lemure. But because he was a known badass in life a low ranking devil brought him back to his human form and he used him to climb the ranks of hell. So he is very powerful he had a help from another powerful slave that using wish sent him back to the land of the living. however do to bad phrasing he lost his memory and powers.

Still needs a lot of work but thank you for the tips it was a lot of help.

[Aett_Thorn]

Thanks a lot but i was going towards a very complex character that lived in hell for over a 300 hundred years. The basic deal will be that he made a deal while being a live and then became a Lemure. But because he was a known badass in life a low ranking devil brought him back to his human form and he used him to climb the ranks of hell. So he is very powerful he had a help from another powerful slave that using wish sent him back to the land of the living. however do to bad phrasing he lost his memory and powers.

Still needs a lot of work but thank you for the tips it was a lot of help.

So please know that everything I say below is not meant to say no to your idea, but just wanted to give you some warnings when making your first D&D character with a background like this.

1) You are making a backstory that gives your character a VERY powerful foe that should be hunting you down to get his hand back. This puts a lot of pressure on the DM to include this foe in the story, which they might not be prepared to do. Clear this kind of backstory with your DM early on before you flesh it out.

2) If the DM does not include your foe, then it may feel like you don't have any backstory at all. This is especially true if your character has amnesia, where they will have little else to go on for why they are who they are. This can run afoul of a couple of different problems:

2a) My character was once a badass, and is now Joe Schmoe. However, they USED to be a badass, so I'm going to keep trying to push the bounds of what my character can do now because of what they used to be able to do. This can be problematic both for other players at the table (who might have more normal characters) and also for the DM (who may need to say no to you a lot because you're asking for ridiculous things). If you can avoid this trap, good for you, but it can be hard for a first-time player.

2b) You could go the other way, and find that you have a pretty boring character, as they have no motivation to do anything because they don't know their own backstory. If your character has no motivation tied to backstory, you may find that your character just feels along for the ride with no purpose other than to play. This CAN be boring, but might not be.

2c) Again you are putting pressure on the DM to give you hints at your own backstory. If it doesn't fit into the DM's plans, however, it could be very slow to get this info and figure out your backstory. Alternatively, what if the DM gives you your memories back at level 3? Are you suddenly uber-powerful again? What does this mean for the other players? Or do you just have your memories but none of the associated powers? How would you feel about that?


Just some things to think about.

[BAR4466]

I am writing my character bio in d&d beyond right now if you have the power to read it i will posta link here again thanks for the tips will definitely take them to heart.

[KorvinStarmast]

Thanks a lot but i was going towards a very complex character that lived in hell for over a 300 hundred years. The basic deal will be that he made a deal while being a live and then became a Lemure. But because he was a known badass in life a low ranking devil brought him back to his human form and he used him to climb the ranks of hell. So he is very powerful he had a help from another powerful slave that using wish sent him back to the land of the living. however do to bad phrasing he lost his memory and powers.

You obviously are not starting at level 1. What level are you proposing to start at? Have you discussed this with your DM? Have you read the basic rules? (https://media.wizards.com/2018/dnd/downloads/DnD_BasicRules_2018.pdf#page=12)
The character you described belongs somewhere in Tier 3 or Tier 4 adventures. (See the link).

In the first tier (levels 1–4), characters are effectively apprentice adventurers. They are learning the features that define them as members of particular classes...The threats they face are relatively minor, usually posing a danger to local farmsteads or villages.
In the second tier (levels 5–10), characters come into their own...These characters have become important, facing dangers that threaten cities and kingdoms.
In the third tier (levels 11–16), characters have reached a level of power that sets them high above the ordinary populace and makes them special even among adventurers...These mighty adventurers often confront threats to whole regions and continents.
At the fourth tier (levels 17–20)...The fate of the world or even the fundamental order of the multiverse might hang in the balance during their adventures.
You seem to be proposing that the character start with an artifact. (Look up The Hand of Vecna; the severed hand of an archduke of hell is in the same rough power level as the severed hand of a legendary lich). That's inconsistent with how the game is built, but if your DM is running a high level game, it might fit.

[Unoriginal]

Hello, i am looking for information about the possibility of using the severed hand of an archduke as a magic catalyst for a mage/fighter build , and i was wondering what sort of magic school Would fitt into role playing that.

For a bit of context my character is going to be human who manages to escape one of the layers of hell after he betrayed his archduke master and took his hand after he lost his in the fight. Afterwards he comes back to the mortel realm with amnesia.

* I never played d&d at all but i want to get into it with my friends so any tips will be welcome thanks in advance.

Devils don't use a school of magic for any power that isn't an innate spell or a regular spell they have learned/acquired like any other existing creature.

An Archduke of Hell has a ton of "off statblock" powers, too. For example, what they can offer to people making a deal with them, or the special powers they can give to their cultists.

In any case, the answer to your question is "depending on the Devil, it varies between none and all". One Duke is thought by some to have invented the Invisibility spell, for example, while a different Archdevil can use Animate Dead at will, and Mephistopheles propably has whole teams of dead casters tasked to study each individual school in order to give him more spells.

[Millstone85]

I would go with the Order of Scribes from Tasha's Cauldron of Everything. This subclass is about a wizard whose spellbook has a mind of its own.

Your character could first create his by putting a blank spellbook in the hand's grip, and soon awaken a feeble echo of the devil.

As a scribe wizard, you notably get to:

treat your spellbook as a spellcasting focus, which looks cool.
be 60 times faster at recording new spells, yeah sixty times!
retrieve your full spellbook after it was stolen, or even destroyed.
send an intangible image of your spellbook to scout ahead.
use your spellbook as a damage sponge, temporarily losing spells.

Also, both you and the devil hand could progressively retrieve your memories, slowly replacing your initial banter with much more foreboding exchanges.


The basic deal will be that he made a deal while being a live and then became a Lemure. But because he was a known badass in life a low ranking devil brought him back to his human form and he used him to climb the ranks of hell.So, according to Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes...

While those who pledge their souls are claimed by the devil they bargained with, lawful evil creatures that aren't bound by any contract emerge from the River Styx as lemures., which I read as saying that people with an infernal deal will entirely skip both the memory-erasing waters of the River Styx and the miserable existence of a lemure.

And well, that would be a strong incentive for the deal to happen in the first place. The devil gets a soul who hasn't lost all the experience accumulated in life. The mortal, assuming they already thought themself destined to drown in the Styx and emerge as a lemure in Hell (or as a larva in Hades, or as a manes in the Abyss), gets to avoid that fate.

Ironically, your character's escape from Hell might have involved drinking from the Styx after all.


You obviously are not starting at level 1.
You seem to be proposing that the character start with an artifact.I think the idea is that amnesia effectively brought the character back to level 1. As for the artifact, it would be easy to say that unlocking its powers takes time. That is, when the character reaches an appropriate level, the DM could say that the hand now grants a bonus to spell attacks and spell save DCs, instead of having the character find a +1 wand.

[Unoriginal]

So, according to Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes...
, which I read as saying that people with an infernal deal will entirely skip both the memory-erasing waters of the River Styx and the miserable existence of a lemure.

Some deals include that, not all.

Depending on the choices, the PCs get to see this happens in Descent into Avernus (potentially several times, even).

Ironically, (one of) the Devil(s) the PCs can see as the result of such a "don't go through the Styx, start out as an higher rank Devil" bargain is actually hindered by it, because a) they had become a worthless, cowardly toady while a mortal (between when they made the bargain and their death) and without the Styx they kept that mindset and personality and b) since they were the same worthless toady their boss knew better than to let them roam around and mess things up.

[NorthernPhoenix]

IIRC, devils innate magic is traditionally "divine" in nature and borrows from the evil end of the Clerics list, though some of them are also wizards. In the modern game, i imagine they would also have access to Warlock powers, being a common source of these.

[BAR4466]

a few things
1) me and my friends are in throwing ideas around and see where our creativity will take us
2) I am not proposing at all that the hand will become an artifact merely a catalyst and an interesting dissection point along with the game most certainly not something like the hand of vecna
3) I wanted to have a character with specific goals in mind that will not harass the other players in the group but be unique in hs on way

4) if anyone wishes to see the character bio feel free to give tips or corrections.
thankyou again for the support and advice I really didn't think anyone will answer


Arton THE RED
Early years:

Arton was born in a poor fishing village on the outskirts of (TBD) close to the ruthless (TBD) empire on his nameday the empire attacked the village and killed his family and Arton was taken as a slave.

Arton spent years as a slave until one day he broke down and killed one of the slave masters after attacking his best friend a dwarf named Thragnus Mountainforge which in turn lead to an all-out slave rebellion.
after escaping with numerous other slaves Arton for his bravery and natural skill with the great sword was nominated by the group to become their leader. very quickly Arton has shown to be a great leader causing hundreds of souls to follow him in his now new dream to destroy the empire and set his fellow slaves free. After that Arton spent over twenty years fighting the empire and freeing his fallow slaves gaining the nickname Arton the red from his enemy and the nickname the breaker of chains from his friends and allies, Arton also got support from the country he once called home. Arton's rebellion became so big that he had a real chance to destroy the empire however in a critical battle he was betrayed. Arton homeland the (TBD) have stopped supporting him and after a few battles, all seem to be lost in desperation Arton tried to free as many people as he could but to no avail. the empire was taunting him by killing children and torturing slaves, he believed that it could not get worse all that he fought for, all the pain of his friends and family for noting, He could not be any more wrong one night in his bedroom a stranger appeared offering him the power to take back his dream at the cost of his own soul, at first Arton dismissed the stranger thinking the price to be too high however one night Artin main camp of operation was ambushed all the man, women and child will be slaughtered, Arton could not let it happen, he will not. Arton shouted to the stranger to return to let him take the deal. and so Artun did, he became stronger faster but also more brutal and angry. Eventually, Arton was slain from a sword to the back his best friend Thragnus Mountainforge has been working with the empire for some time. this led Arton to a new nightmare the nine hells.

the time in the nine hells:
his first hundred years in hell were unmemorable he was used as a Lemure tortured and used to as food for his fiend lords. after a hundred years he suddenly woke up in a circle bound up by hot chains in the corner of the room sat a Bone Devi, he told him his name was (Vugrunath) and he told him he is his new master. and so Arton even in death a slave, Vugrunath explained how much he liked Arton and he was a big fan and that together they will climb the ranks of hell.

Arton time in the servitude of Vugrunath can be divided into three time periods:
1) the massy work of climbing the ranks of hell under his master
2) Vugrunath gift to Arton ( his great sword BLOODWILL a powerful blade capable of permanently destroying demands.
in his time in hell, Arton learned that the sword can talk seemingly unbeknown to Vugrunath. Arton became a good friend with the sword since he was also a slave within the sword.
3) the nine hells civil war which was partly orchestrated by Vugrunath, during those times Arton have made a name for himself as a ruthless killer and brilliant strategist and got the nickname the demon bane. by the end of the civil war, Vugrunath was placed as one of the archdemon of the circle of hell. Arton escape from hell has been by chance when a group of adventures came by and battled the now Pit Fiend Vugrunath and managing to wound him. Arton seeing his opportunity for freedom helped the group of adventurers attack and slay his old master Vugrunath. however not without a cost Arton was heavily wounded in the battle and lost his left arm, after defending the group from an attack that would have wiped them out. feeling a sense of graduate and sadness the group of adventures saved his life by attaching Vugrunath hand to Arton stopping the bleeding. afterwords the group offered Arton to come back with them the moral plane, explaining he can't because he was dead the group opted to give Arton a wish so he can be alive again. Arton not knowing what else to say thanked the group for everything and wished " I wish to be back alive to have a chance to redeem myself for the evil I have done". something went wrong however and Arton woke up naked and with no memory of who he was other than his name. raising his left hand he saw his hand looked scaly and strange. filling scared and alone Arton felt a burning desire to help others and redeem himself for something he has done.

[Millstone85]

[snip]I like your backstory.

So the devil, Vugrunath, was slain. That eases things a little for your Arton, as there might be nobody on their tracks. Or at least, not yet.

Now, if the hand has merged with his arm, that ruins my idea of making it part of his spellbook. However, another aspect of the Order of Scribes is the ability to create a magic quill. So what if Arton discovered that he can use any of the devil's fingers to produce a thin stream of blood, which turns out to be ideal to write down spells? The book would later awaken from so many arcane words in fiendish blood.