fighting werewolves - moonbeam or spirit guardians?

[da newt]

We know we are about to fight a pack of werewolves, should my PC moonbeam or spirit guardians? We have no way to lock down a werewolf in the moonbeam, and very little push into moonbeam capability ...

Which way would you go, and why?

[NecessaryWeevil]

We know we are about to fight a pack of werewolves, should my PC moonbeam or spirit guardians? We have no way to lock down a werewolf in the moonbeam, and very little push into moonbeam capability ...

Which way would you go, and why?

Moonbeam has enough advantages that I would go that way regardless. It's even better if you can dictate the battleground or have a decent frontline - anything to keep them off of you while you concentrate.
If you're a tank / frontline combatant, though, you might get better use out of spirit guardians since it will hit more targets.

[solidork]

Spirit Guardians all the way imo. You're more likely to hit multiple targets and can move the zone without using your action.

What class are you that you have both of them? Twilight Cleric? You've got the armor to do OK in melee. I'd cast Spirit Guardians and then spam Command to get them to approach and then stay in your SG without doing anything.

[arnin77]

Probably best to have both prepared? Seems like Werewolves have a lower wisdom save (spirit guardians) but would be making the con save at disadvantage because of moon beam. Spirit guardians does 3d8 damage vs 2d10; but moonbeam reverts the werewolf back to its original form. Spirit guardians would hit more creatures if you’re getting swarmed though.

To me it just sounds like when you have a choice between two things and you want them both: choose both! Lol

I’d just see how the fight goes. Probably use spirit guardians for the pack fight and then moon beam for a “boss”.

[Cryptwright]

I'd say spirit guardians have more uses if you encounter other things you do not expect along the way.

[Chronos]

Also, how many are in your party? A battlefield cluttered with combatants is a good argument for Spirit Guardians, with its selective targeting.

And what other measures do you have available against werewolves-- Do all of your warrior-types have at least silver weapons, do you have ways of reversing the Curse of Lycanthropy, etc.?

[Ninja Bear]

Where do you intend to fight them? Are you squaring off on either side of an infinite featureless plane, are they going to come at you up a cliff or across a choke point, are you having to track down the pack somewhere, what?

[Witty Username]

Why is that a choice?
Are you a cleric/druid?
if you have convenient terrain and a front line to use moonbeam is effective.
Spirit Guardians is effective and convenient terrain.
That is my take.

[greenstone]

How many were wolves? Moonbeam can only get 4 max, spirit guardians can get to 48 :smallamused:.

[holywhippet]

Spirit guardians all the way:

a) Werewolves are primarily close range fighters which is what spirit guardians is designed for. Moonbeam only covers a small area which werewolves can minimise by spreading out.
b) Spirit guardians can affect all enemies close by simply by moving around a bit to force each werewolf into range once on your turn. Moonbeam requires an action to move around and only targets a small area.
c) Spirit guardians does more damage per hit based on dice averages (possibly not on actual average though since the werewolves would be saving vs. moonbeam with disadvantage).
d) Werewolves are roughly as dangerous in any given form so there is no great urgency to changing them back to their real form.
e) Spirit guardians only harms enemies (unless you decide to harm allies for some reason). Moonbeam doesn't discriminate.

[NecessaryWeevil]

Spirit guardians all the way:

d) Werewolves are roughly as dangerous in any given form so there is no great urgency to changing them back to their real form.


Hmm. I thought werewolves seemed less dangerous in their humanoid form, which is why I suggested Moonbeam.

[Chronos]

Quoth holywhippet:

c) Spirit guardians does more damage per hit based on dice averages (possibly not on actual average though since the werewolves would be saving vs. moonbeam with disadvantage).
How do you figure? Spirit Guardians is 1d8 per slot level, while Moonbeam is 1d10 per slot level.

Yes, Moonbeam has a lower minimum level than Spirit Guardians, but that's a point for Moonbeam, not against it: A second-level Moonbeam does 2d10 damage, but a second-level Spirit Guardians does nothing.

[da newt]

Twilight Cleric
Boss +~6 Werewolves (maybe some wolves too)
party of 6 @ lvl 5
me and Evoker have 5/8 spell slots, Paladin out of spell slots, Rogue has a silver sword, Barb and Monk are full charged
In a big cave area - few choke points
I can cast remove curse (tomorrow)

I'm thinking if I go with a 3rd lvl casting regardless, then MB does more damage, forces human form, has range and DISADV on save, BUT it's a smaller area, will target anyone in it, burns action to move ...

I can't expect any synergy of effort from this crew at all (DM is anti 'table talk' and the Players would do their own thing anyway - all chaos all the time - nice people, no unity of effort or desire for tactics).

I'm leaning towards SG for simple and friendly (especially if there are wolves too), but the party is low damage output especially against these guys now.

[Eldariel]

Different roles. Moonbeam is a nuke+debuff, Spirit Guardians is a nuke+control effect. You use Spirit Guardians if you need to prevent them from reaching the squishies, you use Moonbeam if you have ways to funnel them and nuke them (but it sounds like you don't). Given the latter, you should probably go with Spirit Guardians if level 3 vs. level 2 slot isn't of paramount importance.

[Joe the Rat]

3d8 + Difficult Terrain + aura AoE vs melee-primary opponents. Spirit Guardians for your 3rd level slot and concentration. You could easily wade in and Dodge, and let your ghostly Valkyries or whatever deal with everything.

If you have Spiritual Weapon, use that on turn 2 for remote damage (this is particularly Dodge-friendly).

[Xihirli]

I'd cast Spirit Guardians and then spam Command to get them to approach and then stay in your SG without doing anything.

"The spell has no effect if the target is undead, if it doesn’t understand your language, or if your command is directly harmful to it."
I can't think of too many things more directly harmful than 'step inside of this spell that damages you if you step inside of it.'

[Chronos]

All in all, I'd probably start with Spirit Guardians, but if they knock down your concentration, and if it's still worth spending another spell on the combat, then you might cast Moonbeam after that. Unless the boss is souped up way beyond the other doggies (better saves, much higher HP, bigger benefits from alternate form)-- In that case, you might want to focus a Moonbeam on him.

[5eNeedsDarksun]

3d8 + Difficult Terrain + aura AoE vs melee-primary opponents. Spirit Guardians for your 3rd level slot and concentration. You could easily wade in and Dodge, and let your ghostly Valkyries or whatever deal with everything.

If you have Spiritual Weapon, use that on turn 2 for remote damage (this is particularly Dodge-friendly).

Pretty much this. You probably have someone in your party who is better at single target damage; your job is just to soften them all up.

[holywhippet]

Hmm. I thought werewolves seemed less dangerous in their humanoid form, which is why I suggested Moonbeam.

It only has one more point of AC in wolf/hybrid form and only averages one more point of damage in wolf/hybrid form per turn attacking. In humanoid form they can use their spear to make ranged attacks also which balances things out a bit.

[Lord Vukodlak]

It only has one more point of AC in wolf/hybrid form and only averages one more point of damage in wolf/hybrid form per turn attacking. In humanoid form they can use their spear to make ranged attacks also which balances things out a bit.

Yeah it’s kinda stupid they retain their resistances in their human form. So you can test if someone is a werewolf with a gentle poke of a dagger.

[stoutstien]

Yeah it’s kinda stupid they retain their resistances in their human form. So you can test if someone is a werewolf with a gentle poke of a dagger.

In the same vein if they lose all the powers of being a lycanthrope in human form then if you have an outbreak you could simple purge the local population.

Good base for a dark campaign though.

[Asmotherion]

If you're up against more than 1 werewolf, spirit guardians all the way, for the reasons mentioned above.

If you're facing a single werewolf, a moonbeam will help you fight them in humanoid form, in which they are harmless bags of HP (unless the DM chooses otherwise). The moonbeam however will never realistically target more than 1 werewolf at a time.

Ideally, use both, one from the druid and one from the cleric.

[solidork]

"The spell has no effect if the target is undead, if it doesn’t understand your language, or if your command is directly harmful to it."
I can't think of too many things more directly harmful than 'step inside of this spell that damages you if you step inside of it.'

Thats true. I guess when I did this on my Cleric I did the Command first to get them to approach and stop and then cast Spirit Guardians. It's been a while!

[sithlordnergal]

It only has one more point of AC in wolf/hybrid form and only averages one more point of damage in wolf/hybrid form per turn attacking. In humanoid form they can use their spear to make ranged attacks also which balances things out a bit.

Keep in mind, they lose out on their Bite in Human form, which is how they spread Lycanthropy. This could be good or bad, depending if you want to be a furry or not.

[sithlordnergal]

We know we are about to fight a pack of werewolves, should my PC moonbeam or spirit guardians? We have no way to lock down a werewolf in the moonbeam, and very little push into moonbeam capability ...

Which way would you go, and why?

There's an important question most of the answers haven't really considered yet: Are you built to survive being in the frontlines and, potentially, surrounded on all sides? If your answer is "yes", then use Spirit Guardians, head to the front, and keep those werewolves locked down. It's going to catch a lot more werewolves and will likely do more damage than Moonbeam. Especially if you are casting/attacking while you have it up.

If your answer is "no", then Moonbeam is your better bet. Keep in mind, while you might not be able to force a werewolf to stay within a Moonbeam, you can still catch them with it. It's damage goes off when they first enter the Moonbeam, or when they start their turn in it, and you can move it around. Meaning they can't avoid the damage if you move Moonbeam onto them before their next turn.

Also, Moonbeam can prevent the Werewolves from using their Bite attack and spreading Lycanthropy to the party since the werewolves have disadvantage on the save, and are reverted to Human form if they fail.