Need help with a character concept

[shadowseve]

I need help with a character concept. The character is a celestial type character created from moonlight and music. She’s as deadly with a blade as she is skilled with her voice and lute/guitar. So, as far as the music bard is a must. This is a gestalt build and I need something that is roguish/assassin like. The character works for the church so I would like something fighting that theme as well as tying in the moon somehow. The race would obviously need to be home brewed but I’m not sure where to start. Something celestial, enchanting and ethereal but not over powered with a huge la adjustment. I’m looking for some suggestions as it’s been a while since I’ve played and I’m way outta touch.

The character is known as the Siren of Eternal Night. She’s all about luring evil in with her song and beauty and then striking them down before they know what’s going on.

[Phhase]

As far as race goes, Aasmair sounds like a good place to start.

[Helluin]

Do you want a whole race of her kind or is her birth meant to be a more or less unique circumstance? I feel that applying a 3.5-converted Fey creature (https://aonprd.com/MonsterTemplates.aspx?ItemName=Fey%20Creature) template from PF to an Azata-blooded Aasimar would be good. The LA could be +2. If that’s too much, consider fey-touched (https://www.aonprd.com/MonsterTemplates.aspx?ItemName=Fey-Touched%20Creature) template for +1 LA.

[shadowseve]

Do you want a whole race of her kind or is her birth meant to be a more or less unique circumstance? I feel that applying a 3.5-converted Fey creature (https://aonprd.com/MonsterTemplates.aspx?ItemName=Fey%20Creature) template from PF to an Azata-blooded Aasimar would be good. The LA could be +2. If that’s too much, consider fey-touched (https://www.aonprd.com/MonsterTemplates.aspx?ItemName=Fey-Touched%20Creature) template for +1 LA.

Unique circumstances. I’ll look at those templates. I’m also def looking for build ideas as well for the classes.

[Efrate]

Bard has a divine version. Fixes that part. Daring outlaw/swift hunter?

[RNightstalker]

Sword dancer from Faiths and Pantheons fits the flavor, especially for a gestalt build. Will need to talk to the DM to reflavor it a bit, but it hits most of the spots.

[shadowseve]

Bard has a divine version. Fixes that part. Daring outlaw/swift hunter?

I’ll def be going define bard. What I’m wondering is there a ways to combine the alluring nature of a nymph, something similar to the blinding beauty with the fey template listed above with the aasimar? And what about the dating outlaw Swift hunter?? Not sure where you’re going.

[shadowseve]

Sword dancer from Faiths and Pantheons fits the flavor, especially for a gestalt build. Will need to talk to the DM to reflavor it a bit, but it hits most of the spots.

I like the flavor of the sword dancer. I would assume that would go on the gestalt side as the prc but what would you have under it?

[Thurbane]

Half-Nymph is a template from Dragon 313. Can only be applied to Humanoids, so maybe Half-Nymph Lesser Aasimar? Total LA would be +2. Fortunately, LA is a bit more manageable in gestalt. Especially if LA buyoff is allowed.

Ability mods end up as Dex +2, Int +2, Wis +4, Cha +6. Has an Awesome Beauty supernatural ability than can cause Humanoids to become shaken.

Slayer of Domiel PrC fits the fluff, but honestly isn't an amazing PrC.

[shadowseve]

Half-Nymph is a template from Dragon 313. Can only be applied to Humanoids, so maybe Half-Nymph Lesser Aasimar? Total LA would be +2. Fortunately, LA is a bit more manageable in gestalt. Especially if LA buyoff is allowed.

Ability mods end up as Dex +2, Int +2, Wis +4, Cha +6. Has an Awesome Beauty supernatural ability than can cause Humanoids to become shaken.

Slayer of Domiel PrC fits the fluff, but honestly isn't an amazing PrC.
I’m sold on combining the half nymph and lesser aasimar. Now I just need to complete the classes.

[RNightstalker]

I like the flavor of the sword dancer. I would assume that would go on the gestalt side as the prc but what would you have under it?

Simplest thing would be 3 levels of cleric. Or if you go druid it would open up for fochlucan lyricist later on since you're already doing the bard thing.

[shadowseve]

I guess my question is, what would be the the best way two weapon fighting with stealth, full bab if possible and some potential sneak attack or some other kind of assassin move. She leads an order of assassins sanctioned by the church. Hopefully that helps.


So for the race. It's called an Alyra. We've agreed on combining a half nymph with the lesser aasimer, but since the character is made from music we're thinking about adding what the Fiire get from the BOED which allows them to sing as often as like. I'm not sure how much of an LA that would add.

[Maat Mons]

The interaction of gestalt and level adjustment isn't defined. Check with your DM to see how they're handling it.

If you go Divine Bard, remember you'll ultimately need to get your Wisdom up to 16 to be able to use all your spells. Regular Bards only need Charisma, but Divine Bard splits things between two ability scores.

If you stick with regular Bard, one classic build is Bard 8 / Virtuoso 2 / Sublime Chord 2 / Virtuoso +8.

Battle Dancer would give you Cha to AC. Paladin of Freedom would give you Cha to saves.

[shadowseve]

The interaction of gestalt and level adjustment isn't defined. Check with your DM to see how they're handling it.

If you go Divine Bard, remember you'll ultimately need to get your Wisdom up to 16 to be able to use all your spells. Regular Bards only need Charisma, but Divine Bard splits things between two ability scores.

If you stick with regular Bard, one classic build is Bard 8 / Virtuoso 2 / Sublime Chord 2 / Virtuoso +8.

Battle Dancer would give you Cha to AC. Paladin of Freedom would give you Cha to saves.

We’re handling the la with a buy off. As much as I hate to say it but the Slayer of Domiel fits the concept the best since she is an assassin but it’s def not the best prestige class. Wouldn’t mind finding use for the sacred outlaw feat. Clerics, rogues, and bards are my fav classes.

[ShurikVch]

Note: Dragon #340 has Lunar Rogue and Moon-Warded Ranger ACFs

Also, City of Splendors: Waterdeep have the Knight of the Blue Moon and Moonstar Agent PrCs

And not a caster, but - Ninja of the Crescent Moon (Sword and Fist)

[shadowseve]

I’m also debating on taking either cleric levels or levels of favored soul with a level of sacred exorcist for turn undead. At still not sure. At the end of the day she needs to be able to hold her own against the best of them in melee should she not be able to ensnare/seduce them with spells/abilities.

[Telonius]

For the non-Bard side of the Gestalt, would a Shadowbane Stalker build sound good to you? It's usually a Cleric- or Paladin-Rogue multiclass. 8/10 casting, advances sneak attack.

Another option would be an Eldritch Disciple. Warlock can get its powers from Chaotic (=fey) sources instead of demonic. There are several invocations that can support an ethereal and enchanting sort of character. Beguiling Influence is probably a given. See if you can get the DM to give Fell Flight a visual display (angel or fey wings). And the Cleric progression gets the celestial theme built in.

[shadowseve]

For the non-Bard side of the Gestalt, would a Shadowbane Stalker build sound good to you? It's usually a Cleric- or Paladin-Rogue multiclass. 8/10 casting, advances sneak attack.

Another option would be an Eldritch Disciple. Warlock can get its powers from Chaotic (=fey) sources instead of demonic. There are several invocations that can support an ethereal and enchanting sort of character. Beguiling Influence is probably a given. See if you can get the DM to give Fell Flight a visual display (angel or fey wings). And the Cleric progression gets the celestial theme built in.

I actually really like the shadowbane stalker. Fits the theme perfectly. I imagine I would take one level of rogue then cleric until shadow bane stalker.

[shadowseve]

The interaction of gestalt and level adjustment isn't defined. Check with your DM to see how they're handling it.

If you go Divine Bard, remember you'll ultimately need to get your Wisdom up to 16 to be able to use all your spells. Regular Bards only need Charisma, but Divine Bard splits things between two ability scores.

If you stick with regular Bard, one classic build is Bard 8 / Virtuoso 2 / Sublime Chord 2 / Virtuoso +8.

Battle Dancer would give you Cha to AC. Paladin of Freedom would give you Cha to saves.
Would sublime chord and virtuoso also advance your inspire courage?

[ShurikVch]

Note: there are two non-Evil Outsiders related to the Moon: Moon Dog (Book of Exalted Deeds) and Shard of Selûne (variant of Planetar (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/angel.htm#angelPlanetar))
So, maybe gestalt with Half-Celestial (https://web.archive.org/web/20201112024121/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040319a) Savage Progression?
(Also, Dragon #314 have racial class for Moon Dog)

[Maat Mons]

Virtuoso advances Inspire Courage, but Sublime Chord doesn't. So the build I suggested wouldn't gain Inspire Courage +3 until level 16.

But now that I think about it, since this is gestalt, you could go Bard 8 / Virtuoso 2 / Subline Chord 2 / Virtuoso +8 //whatever 10 / Bard +2 / whatever 8. That would get you full progression of Inspire Courage.



Another, stranger approach, is From Smite to Song. It gives you Inspire Courage with the bonus based on your Paladin level. You have to fuel it by expending Smite Evil uses though. And those are going to be less numerous than Bardic Music uses would normally be.

There's also Initiate of Milil, which lets your Bard and Paladin levels stack for determining what Bardic Music abilities you have access to. And Devoted Performer lets your Bard and Paladin levels stack for determining how many times per day you can use Bardic Music. But unfortunately, if I'm reading things right, Initiate of Milil doesn't improve the bonus granted by Inspire Courage.

If you combine all three, Bard 1 / something 19 // Paladin 20 would be pretty hard to tell apart from Bard 20 in terms of Bardic Music. I suggest Sorcerer (and some PrCs) for the "something 19."

Do make sure to check with your DM that it's okay to use class-stacking feats in gestalt though.

[shadowseve]

So. I think I’ve decided to go the standard bard 8/virtuoso 2/ sublime chord 2/ virtuoso 8// this side I’m prob going rogue/ cleric/ shadowbane stalker though I’m not sure the order of cleric and stalker levels. Shadowbane Stalker fits the theme too well not to use it.

As far as the inspire courage I can make up that one point easily with items.

I do have a question. The Firre from the Boed has the ability Song (su) allowing them unlimited use of bardic music. This would fit the race I’m creating perfectly since they’re literally made of moonlight and music. This is obviously really nice for bards, the question on how much of an la adjustment would this add? Right now I’d be adding that to the half nymph/lesser aasimar that I’m using as a base for the new. I don’t want to add too much as I do plan on taking that Saint template later on which adds another 2 la but def worth it.

[Telonius]

So. I think I’ve decided to go the standard bard 8/virtuoso 2/ sublime chord 2/ virtuoso 8// this side I’m prob going rogue/ cleric/ shadowbane stalker though I’m not sure the order of cleric and stalker levels. Shadowbane Stalker fits the theme too well not to use it.

As far as the inspire courage I can make up that one point easily with items.

I do have a question. The Firre from the Boed has the ability Song (su) allowing them unlimited use of bardic music. This would fit the race I’m creating perfectly since they’re literally made of moonlight and music. This is obviously really nice for bards, the question on how much of an la adjustment would this add? Right now I’d be adding that to the half nymph/lesser aasimar that I’m using as a base for the new. I don’t want to add too much as I do plan on taking that Saint template later on which adds another 2 la but def worth it.

Unfortunately Firre are listed as LA +10, and has 8 racial hit dice, so that would probably put it out of reach unless you wanted to fill up the entire side of the gestalt with just that (and two levels in something).

[shadowseve]

Unfortunately Firre are listed as LA +10, and has 8 racial hit dice, so that would probably put it out of reach unless you wanted to fill up the entire side of the gestalt with just that (and two levels in something).

I don’t want the Firre race. Just the song ability they have. Would that ability alone be worth an ecl?

[Telonius]

Ah, got it. The ability is useful just on its own, but in combination with certain feats it would range from powerful to completely bonkers. There are a lot of them (particularly from Complete Scoundrel and Complete Adventurer) that allow you to consume 1 (or more) uses of Bardic Music to obtain certain effects. Feats are scarce, so it would be an investment to get it; but having an effectively limitless supply of Bardic Music removes the limiting factor to those abilities. I would say it's worth at least +1 LA.

If I were the DM, I would specify that the ability does not work at all with the Metamagic Song feat (from Races of Stone). If it does, the ability is worth several LA just on its own - it's essentially free metamagic at no additional spell level otherwise.

[shadowseve]

Ah, got it. The ability is useful just on its own, but in combination with certain feats it would range from powerful to completely bonkers. There are a lot of them (particularly from Complete Scoundrel and Complete Adventurer) that allow you to consume 1 (or more) uses of Bardic Music to obtain certain effects. Feats are scarce, so it would be an investment to get it; but having an effectively limitless supply of Bardic Music removes the limiting factor to those abilities. I would say it's worth at least +1 LA.

If I were the DM, I would specify that the ability does not work at all with the Metamagic Song feat (from Races of Stone). If it does, the ability is worth several LA just on its own - it's essentially free metamagic at no additional spell level otherwise.

So, I’m not even going to present that to her then. The dm is my wife and I’d rather not spend a few nights on the couch from breaking her brain. I broke her best friend one with a druid/planar shepherd and was banned from ever playing a Druid again.


What order do you guys think I should tip the gestalt side? Rogue 1/cleric 9/ Shadowbane Stalker 10???