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View Full Version : Optimization Pure Wis or Wis/Str for Twilight Clerics



DarkMoon250
2021-08-08, 10:26 AM
Got an idea for an elf Twilight Cleric for an upcoming series of one-shots, but I don't really know how to build this fella. The subclass seems to be all about staying on the frontlines close to your most vulnerable allies, what with the heavy armor/martial weapons and the buttload of auras, so it seems like Strength would be the way to go, but almost everywhere I see a sentiment that Str on Clerics is a trap. We're using point-buy, so I've only got so many points to customize my dude with in the first place, and I don't want to put a lot into Str only to wind up not using the stat much.

If anyone has any advice, or experience with optimized TwiClerics at their tables, I'd love to hear it.

RogueJK
2021-08-08, 12:03 PM
You'll want a 15 STR for heavy armor purposes, but you don't need to bump it any higher from there. You're a spellcaster, not a melee fighter. Even on the front lines, past the first few levels a Cleric has better things to do with their Action than swing a weapon once.

With point buy, I'd do something like:

STR 14+1 (racial)
DEX 10
CON 15
INT 8
WIS 15+2 (racial)
CHA 8

or

STR 14+1 (racial)
DEX 10
CON 13
INT 10
WIS 15+2 (racial)
CHA 10

Either way, plan for Resilient CON at Level 4 or Level 8, with a +1 WIS half-feat like Fey Touched/Shadow Touched/Observant/Skill Expert/etc. at the other ASI. Then +2 WIS at Level 12.

Gtdead
2021-08-08, 02:15 PM
I'd dump strength. Heavy armor proficiency or not, it's a completely useless stat. Melee enemies don't want to be near the Cleric anyway, except for the first few levels and the only thing that scales with STR is Divine Strike, a very insignificant feature (which can be swapped for Blessed Strikes).

Assuming a Vhuman, I'd probably go for

STR 8
DEX 14
CON 15
INT 8
WIS 16
CHA 12

And pick Res Con to bring CON to 16. (Can delay it a bit, no need to get it at lvl 1).
Best case scenario, you get gauntlets of strength somehow.
Worst case scenario, flat out trade 1 AC for either +1 Con/Wis and a boost to DEX and CHA saves and Initiative compared to the STR build.

Cleric doesn't scale amazingly well with WIS either so prioritize feats if you want (the only reason to go for high Wis is to leverage the Summon Celestial spell tbh, which comes fairly late). Except for Eyes of the night, which I think 3 targets are more than enough, the usual spells are independent of WIS. Bless, Healing Word, and SG perform perfectly fine even with a negative modifier. Cleric is not known for casting many crowd control spells and a starting 16 is more than enough for Sanctuaries, Faerie Fires and Guiding Bolts.

Be an archer early game and later you can transition to weaponless unless you plan on getting BB somehow (It's easy to adapt the build for dipping by getting 14 CON+Warcaster and 13 CHA). My preferred progression is MI:Druid for Magic Stones and Thorn Whip (and Abosrb Elements of course), and have an entourage of 3 Zombies to throw the Stones or grapple anything inside my SG.

Chronic
2021-08-08, 04:05 PM
I would dump strength too, go 14 dex, médium armor and max wisdom. You will get a very close AC and leverage a way more useful stat (initiative, dex save etc.). I don't like heavy armor because 15 strength is a heavy investment, and taking a move penalty if not at 15 is a big no no, movement is king in D&d. Go for blessed strike, it's more versatile than divine strike, and twilight clerics make poor melee characters.
There is not much else to discuss, they are excellent supports but not much else. Your mates will love you, your DM might get frustrated if he design very classic, very boring encounters since this domain excel at that.

Ogre Mage
2021-08-08, 05:40 PM
For my 3rd level variant human twilight cleric built with 27 point buy I too opted for mediocre strength, above average dexterity and high wisdom. I wear medium armor and use a shield (AC 18).

STR 10
DEX 14
CON 16 (+1 variant human, +1 resilient)
INT 8
WIS 16 (+1 variant human)
CHA 10

At low levels I rely on sacred flame and toll the dead for round-to-round damage. These work without penalty if enemies get into melee range. I also have guiding bolt and spiritual weapon. Because I rely on cantrips I have a hand free and don't need to worry about getting warcaster even though I use a shield. And once I get into Tier 2 these cantrips will outscale weapon damage, especially as twilight clerics do not get extra attacks. I carry a rapier (which uses Dex to hit and damage) just in case.

I prefer Dex over Str because:


Better initiative
Dex saves are much more valuable than Str saves
Only need 14 Dex instead of 15 Str, leaving more points for other things
More varied skill options (stealth, acrobatics, sleight of hand)

Chronic
2021-08-08, 08:44 PM
Going dex and getting a proficiency in stealth is really nice thematically, and fairly useful.
One thing to note is that dumping strength doesn't completely prevent usage of heavy armor.
A mithral plate armor get rid of the prerequisite for strength and the usual disadvantage on ability check.
It's also fairly cheap, but nothing says you will have access to it, it's GM dependant.