A Good necromancer with a not so Good supplier.

[SangoProduction]

Necromancers have so much work on their hands, studying, killing goblins on a mass scale to level up, and so on. Sometimes it can be really difficult to find good bod- OK, maybe non-goblin bodies.

-

Let's just say that negative energy in and of itself is not Evil. And the necromancer acts in a heroic and selfless manner. I mean, he's certainly not jumping in front of any swords, but his zombies are.

But finding good, high quality bodies is difficult work. So the obvious solution is to outsource it to someone who gets it cheaply and quickly.

How culpable is the necromancer in the actions of his very reliable source of fresh bodies?
At what level of suspicion are they culpable, if they choose to never look further into it?
What if the supplier is guilty of nothing.... other than serving as a fence for the real supplier? How many layers deep before the necromancer is able to absolve themselves of whatever the "true" supplier does?

What if it were instead a magic item that "produced" dead bodies of the specified requirements?
What if the magic item is used not because it's particularly difficult to find proper bodies, but because it's just so much more convenient to have it magically pulled out of a bag?

[LunaticChaos]

Necromancers have so much work on their hands, studying, killing goblins on a mass scale to level up, and so on. Sometimes it can be really difficult to find good bod- OK, maybe non-goblin bodies.

-

Let's just say that negative energy in and of itself is not Evil. And the necromancer acts in a heroic and selfless manner. I mean, he's certainly not jumping in front of any swords, but his zombies are.

But finding good, high quality bodies is difficult work. So the obvious solution is to outsource it to someone who gets it cheaply and quickly.

How culpable is the necromancer in the actions of his very reliable source of fresh bodies?

At what level of suspicion are they culpable, if they choose to never look further into it?

What if it were instead a magic item that "produced" dead bodies of the specified requirements?

Well to answer the base questions.
By RAW ruling, they are fundamentally performing evil actions by creating undead. But even ignoring that. Knowledge of the source of the bodies would most certainly be held against them by the nebulous unified force of good. And intentional ignorance is not any better, you would be morally responsible for chasing the supply chain as far back as you can to determine its nature. And the use of an evil item that created undead would not absolve them of the sins.
The closest thing you can do that is morally neutral is taking command of already created undead.
By the RAW rules, a Good Necromancer is impossible just as Good Undead are impossible, at least in the long run.

Now if we're talking more in ethical terms. When dealing with certain materials it is the moral obligation of the buyer to ensure the goods are of good moral standing. Hospitals in the real world must confirm that transplantation organs and the like are not being sourced from coerced or illegal sources...well at least in reputable countries this must be done legally speaking. So in the case of a "Good" necromancer they must ensure that the bodies they are gaining access to are of a certain "legal" level.

But if you're looking for creating undead and the like that are good by the rules though. Look into the Deathless. They are specifically powered by Positive Energy, are not evil in nature, and there are some rules for creating them. Primarily in the Eberron setting. They are also even BoED approved.
If you're the DM, look into adapting the Necromancer stuff for Deathless use.
If you're the player, see if your DM would be willing to make some homebrew adaptations to let you make/use Deathless more easily.

[SangoProduction]

Nope. Just a thought experiment. And Deathless wouldn't be any more good than Undead, as we were disconnecting negative/positive energy from the discussion specifically because that's not an interesting discussion.

[hamishspence]

By the RAW rules, a Good Necromancer is impossible just as Good Undead are impossible, at least in the long run.


Though Good ghosts are not unheard of - even long-lasting ones.

[LunaticChaos]

Nope. Just a thought experiment. And Deathless wouldn't be any more good than Undead, as we were disconnecting negative/positive energy from the discussion specifically because that's not an interesting discussion.

Which is why I addressed your discussion questions as well.

Though Deathless and most Undead are also different in that the Soul is also restored and they are not under the control of their creator by default (at least the ones via the respective Create spells). Its closer in concept to an unasked for Resurrection than it is to creating a puppet.
Most Undead are either mindless, or in the cases the soul is restored in some form its a form of slavery usually.



Though Good ghosts are not unheard of - even long-lasting ones.

Fair point, though Ghosts (And Revenants) are a bit different in concept as they usually aren't intentionally created.

[Zanos]

Since we're actually kind of throwing out the necromancy portion as irrelevant as far as alignment goes here, you're really just asking how culpable someone is for receiving corpses.

Trading in bodies of the dead is inherently worthy of suspicion, in my opinion. If you're just receiving clearly rotting or embalmed carcasses it's most likely you're paying a graverobber, which is probably illegal but I don't think there's a strong argument for corpse desecration being inherently Evil; the soul has moved on. Now, if the corpses you're getting are unusually fresh, I would start to seriously consider impacting the characters alignment for not looking into the matter, since there's a good chance their activities are benefiting murderers. In this case I say that it does not matter how many layers are between you and the murderer, you are effectively paying for people to be killed and if you are not Evil you should be concerned about what is happening. IIRC this actually happened with medical education in the 1800s, with people starting to murder folks to sell to anatomy schools, and the schools more or less could tell the bodies were way too fresh, but looked the other way.

I'd treat the magic item with similar suspicion. Is it some kind of [Creation] effect creating bodies from nothing, or is it [Teleportation] and [Death] grabbing suspiciously fresh bodies from who knows where?

[ShurikVch]

The "alignment" in D&D is a rigid, narrow, and fragile construct.
It works sufficiently while you... *ahem*... "exploring" a dungeon
But when you starting animate Skeletons to build orphanages, it goes into full denial, crawls in a corner, and cries: "It's Evil! Evil! Evil!.." - despite nobody, actually, suffering

Check the Why is creating undead Evil? (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?619178-Why-is-creating-undead-Evil) thread
Points of interest:
1) Non-Evil Undead (1 (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24718573&postcount=29), 2 (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24874531&postcount=533))
2) Non-Evil spells to create Undead (Bestow Curse, Limited Wish, Oath of Blood, Raise Dead, Raise Skeleton, Raise Skeleton Mage, Revive, Seed of Undeath, Wish)
3) The White Path Necromancer (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24773658&postcount=430)

[Maat Mons]

Flesh to Stone is explicitly capable of creating corpses out of ordinary statues. So is Ice to Flesh, for that matter.

Wall of Stone, followed by Stone Shape, followed by Flesh to Stone is a pretty reliable way of getting corpses. At one point, I had an idea for a setting completely lacking any living creatures which used this as a source of new undead.

Life-sized, person-shaped molds, which you fill with water via a Decanter of Endless Water, freeze by some means, and turn into corpses with Ice to Flesh is another option. There's more setup involved, but it winds up using fewer spell slots.



I've long wanted to homebrew something tying into Pathfinder's magical plants to make trees that grow corpses, bacon, steak, brains, and other such things. It would be great for necromancers who have trouble finding ethically-sourced bodies, vegans who love meat, and mind flayers who want social acceptance.



If you're worried about legal repercussions for using shady corpse-procurers, I recommend always buying straight from the government. They guarantee that every corpse they sell comes from a prisoner sentenced to execution by a court of law. You couldn't ask for a more ethical source.

Accusations that the poor are arrested on trumped-up charges and convicted in sham trials to line the pockets of authorities with sweet, sweet necromancer-cash are propaganda spread by anti-zombie interests.

[LunaticChaos]

Flesh to Stone is explicitly capable of creating corpses out of ordinary statues. So is Ice to Flesh, for that matter.

Wall of Stone, followed by Stone Shape, followed by Flesh to Stone is a pretty reliable way of getting corpses. At one point, I had an idea for a setting completely lacking any living creatures which used this as a source of new undead.

Life-sized, person-shaped molds, which you fill with water via a Decanter of Endless Water, freeze by some means, and turn into corpses with Ice to Flesh is another option. There's more setup involved, but it winds up using fewer spell slots.



I've long wanted to homebrew something tying into Pathfinder's magical plants to make trees that grow corpses, bacon, steak, brains, and other such things. It would be great for necromancers who have trouble finding ethically-sourced bodies, vegans who love meat, and mind flayers who want social acceptance.



If you're worried about legal repercussions for using shady corpse-procurers, I recommend always buying straight from the government. They guarantee that every corpse they sell comes from a prisoner sentenced to execution by a court of law. You couldn't ask for a more ethical source.

Accusations that the poor are arrested on trumped-up charges and convicted in sham trials to line the pockets of authorities with sweet, sweet necromancer-cash are propaganda spread by anti-zombie interests.

You know, you are entirely correct that making use of the -something- to flesh spells would create entirely ethical corpses. But either would require a fairly high level wizard or a fairly expensive magic item. Which means huge expenditures. Which means "Good Certified" corpse procurement should naturally be far more expensive than Evil Conventional Corpses.....and I just realized I made an Organic and Conventional food comparison, or Kosher and Conventional.

Though same time, the question of how useful said corpses would be is another matter. As part of the power of certain undead is the HD of the source creature. And is a statue of an owlbear really an owlbear corpse? Or is it just a 1HD corpse in the shape of one? One one hand saying yes does help a good necromancer...but that opens up to Dragon Corpse manufacturing.

As for the soylent green options you're talking about. I think there might be something along those lines in some adventure or the like. I remember playing in a game with something like that. But it could have been homebrew.
Though the Mindflayer thing. If I'm correct from a Lore perspective it is intelligent minds they crave because of thoughts, memories, and all that. So manufactured Corpse Brains would be entirely empty calories to them.

As for the Government option. Can we say Adventure Hook any harder?


The "alignment" in D&D is a rigid, narrow, and fragile construct.
It works sufficiently while you... *ahem*... "exploring" a dungeon
But when you starting animate Skeletons to build orphanages, it goes into full denial, crawls in a corner, and cries: "It's Evil! Evil! Evil!.." - despite nobody, actually, suffering


There is an old saying, you don't talk about the way alignment works in DnD. No one's going to agree and you'll just cause a fight.

But to address the main point here. Its technically still evil in a dungeon. Just because it is helping destroy evil doesn't mean its not evil. Good aligned Paladins and Clerics of Pelor would be obligated to destroy such undead for instance. Regardless of their use and convenience. But you rarely see this because of the unspoken Player Contract if both are allowed at the same table...or if you do, well see various RPG horror stories and the like.

[Brackenlord]

Flesh to Stone is explicitly capable of creating corpses out of ordinary statues. So is Ice to Flesh, for that matter.
Wall of Stone, followed by Stone Shape, followed by Flesh to Stone is a pretty reliable way of getting corpses. At one point, I had an idea for a setting completely lacking any living creatures which used this as a source of new undead.

Stone Shape can't produce fine detail, it's a bit of stretch that it can make a statue.


Though same time, the question of how useful said corpses would be is another matter. As part of the power of certain undead is the HD of the source creature. And is a statue of an owlbear really an owlbear corpse? Or is it just a 1HD corpse in the shape of one? One one hand saying yes does help a good necromancer...but that opens up to Dragon Corpse manufacturing.

I think Wall of Stone is kinda bonkers (for n other reasons) but at that point, I wouldn't mind combining those spells and a Craft check to make sure the statues become able corpses.

We like to pretend every wizard has every spell ever, but if a Necromancer is dedicating all those resources to create his kosher bodies by learning all those spells or buying their service it sounds fair for the par.

[JoeNapalm]

Let's just say that negative energy in and of itself is not Evil.



"Let's not."
-- The Paladin

-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist

[PoeticallyPsyco]

A better example of this quandary might be an adventurer buying dragon-hide armor. How much obligation is the adventurer under to make sure that dragon-skin is ethically sourced? Sure, it could be coming from slain marauding dragons, but it could also be coming from some horrible wyrmling farm.

[Xervous]

A better example of this quandary might be an adventurer buying dragon-hide armor. How much obligation is the adventurer under to make sure that dragon-skin is ethically sourced? Sure, it could be coming from slain marauding dragons, but it could also be coming from some horrible wyrmling farm.

Horrible indeed, the classic:
Nipple clamp of exquisite pain
Skinning tools
A casting of Regenerate

[Morphic tide]

How culpable is the necromancer in the actions of his very reliable source of fresh bodies?
Only insofar as he knows, and I don't know of any examples of obligation for merely being Good-aligned of investigating potential immoral acts. You're only required to do something about what actually comes up. Even for a Paladin.


At what level of suspicion are they culpable, if they choose to never look further into it?
What if the supplier is guilty of nothing.... other than serving as a fence for the real supplier? How many layers deep before the necromancer is able to absolve themselves of whatever the "true" supplier does?
Going by the standards given for Paladins, a single layer of fencing is sufficient, as the Code of Conduct for these hamstrung exemplars of Law and Good are only forbidden direct cooperation with Evil characters. So long as the fence is at least Neutral on the Good/Evil axis, it's totally fine by RAW. Now, if you end up investigating graverobbery and they show up in your corpse supply, then you're obligated if you want to stay Good rather than fall to Neutral.


What if it were instead a magic item that "produced" dead bodies of the specified requirements?
What if the magic item is used not because it's particularly difficult to find proper bodies, but because it's just so much more convenient to have it magically pulled out of a bag?
Hilariously enough a PMO item is actually explicitly able to do this, for all it's low-Epic to get in bulk, because you can specifically turn inanimate objects into useful corpses. Ditto for Stone to Flesh with some method of mass-producing statues.

It depends quite a lot on the condition of the corpses in question as to the level of suspicion, but as is mentioned quite a bit in this thread there's actually quite a number of ways to produce a remarkable surplus of corpses via magic that were never living people to begin with. And it is a lot easier to explain the market absorbing such corpse production than the sourcing spells on more "conventional" uses, because living creature products are very obvious consumables as opposed to finding buyers in the fortification business for Walls of Stone.

As for why you'd be supplying the market for human corpses? Simple: They'd normally be hideously expensive because of grave robbery and murder charges, as opposed to the rather low prices attached to chattel to be butchered for the usual. Ditto for the risks involved in monster corpses. So if such a clever Conjuration/Transmutation expert finds these corpse-traffickers, they're going to be able to offer a lot of corpses below standard rate and with varieties limited more by the market's ability to absorb than anything else.

But, on the other hand, if they have obvious signs of a violent end or dirty funerary garb, then there's going to be reason to investigate.

[Wintermoot]

So, in your thought experiment, manipulating and using negative energy is not inherently evil. So the "evil" part is in causing death to create bodies and using bodies against the will of the person's pre-death wishes.

So I would say that if you were a guy who turned bodies into zombies and needed bodies and got them from a supplier, you'd have to be pretty unbelievably stupid and irrationally naïve to not suspect they came from evil circumstances. Even if your supplier INSISTED that they came from medical volunteers who volunteered their bodies after a natural or accidental death, your necromancer must have a higher than average intelligence to get into the field he's in, and any competent good-meaning person would do their due diligence to ensure that the supply is as advertised.

If it later came out that the bodies were harvested evilly, I don't think I'd be able to buy the innocence of the necromancer saying "I didn't know" because He SHOULD have known. It was his RESPONSIBILITY to know, to ensure the validity of his stock.

So, yeah, I think willful ignorance OR accidental ignorance coupled with insufficient investigation are both evil in this case.

Now, if the ignorance is unwillful and followed a reasonable and fully competent investigation into your source, but they were simply THAT GOOD at hiding the truth from you, then I think that probably removes the evil, as long as when the truth comes out you do everything you can to stop, undo the damage that's undoable and recompense where you can.

[Fizban]

How culpable is the necromancer in the actions of his very reliable source of fresh bodies?
Very. The only possible need for a continuous/regular source of fresh bodies is a necromancer, therefore their practice is directly responsible for whatever the source is doing. Unless these are animal corpses, but even then there are some moral questions about one person "eating" a huge amount of livestock.

At what level of suspicion are they culpable, if they choose to never look further into it?
Immediately and fully. Choosing ignorance is not Good. It's barely Neutral. For a thing that you know by definition requires the harm of others and can only be done ethically under very specific conditions, any amount of ignorance is negligence.


What if the supplier is guilty of nothing.... other than serving as a fence for the real supplier? How many layers deep before the necromancer is able to absolve themselves of whatever the "true" supplier does?
No amount of layers will absolve them of a continuous arrangement. If they are truthfully and blissfully ignorant or have been deliberately and successfully duped by an antagonist (as determined by divine knowledge/the DM) of the nature of a particular windfall, they may not be found culpable of those particular deaths. But any amount of regularity or even just multiple accounts immediately raises suspicion in any rational mind, requiring them to investigate- and if they wish to remain Good, likely make amends for any deaths for which they are found to be ultimately responsible.


What if it were instead a magic item that "produced" dead bodies of the specified requirements?
What if the magic item is used not because it's particularly difficult to find proper bodies, but because it's just so much more convenient to have it magically pulled out of a bag?
A magic item that legitimately creates suitable bodies for animation out of nothing, combined with negative energy that has no Evil implications, would remove all the problems yes. By grossly violating all the fluff behind those mechanics.

Regarding Stone to Flesh- I disagree with the assertion that it creates something suitable for animation. While the spell does say that you could turn a stone golem into a flesh golem or a statue into a corpse, that's not how golems work, and the initial phrase of turning stone into a "fleshy substance" makes no suggestion that "fleshy substance" includes skeleton, defined muscles, or anything usable. The main sentence seems pretty clearly set on very specifically not creating a "usable corpse," while the paranthetical reads like an addition by a different writer who thought that was actually a good idea and pulled a complete 180 contradiction.

[Thurbane]

I've seen this argued before. (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?625753-3-5-Stone-to-Flesh-Lifeless-Body)

RAI/RAMS, you may well argue that StF cast on a never-living statue creatures a "corpse shaped lump of flesh", but since corpse is not a defined game term, we revert to the general definition.

There's not much of an argument that it wouldn't work by RAW, at least IMHO.

[Morphic tide]

Very. The only possible need for a continuous/regular source of fresh bodies is a necromancer, therefore their practice is directly responsible for whatever the source is doing. Unless these are animal corpses, but even then there are some moral questions about one person "eating" a huge amount of livestock.

Immediately and fully. Choosing ignorance is not Good. It's barely Neutral. For a thing that you know by definition requires the harm of others and can only be done ethically under very specific conditions, any amount of ignorance is negligence.
Choosing ignorance when it's something with sizable complexity like the trade of corpses, when illicit supply overwhelmingly comes with rather obvious signs on the corpse itself. A person who died of old age should be sticking that -6 Str/Dex on any template Undead made from their corpse, making them terrible necromancy materials, and most premature deaths will have very obvious signs to even a cursory knowledge of the matter. As mentioned, Good is defined by acting against wrongs that come your way, qualifying for the Alignment does not anywhere along the chain mandate taking pains to confirm ethical sourcing of your resources.

And large quantities of animal corpses are only going to be a question if you actually see signs of famine as a supply issue rather than a transportation one. Even so, very easy answer: Take them to a butcher and ask for the bones to be left intact. Skeletons are typically more useful than Zombies to begin with, there's not any issue at all with literally doing it on the way to an act of charity. Bone is doing very little for that, and you aren't required to scrape the bottom of the barrel. That line is specifically for Exalted characters.


No amount of layers will absolve them of a continuous arrangement. If they are truthfully and blissfully ignorant or have been deliberately and successfully duped by an antagonist (as determined by divine knowledge/the DM) of the nature of a particular windfall, they may not be found culpable of those particular deaths. But any amount of regularity or even just multiple accounts immediately raises suspicion in any rational mind, requiring them to investigate- and if they wish to remain Good, likely make amends for any deaths for which they are found to be ultimately responsible.
Again, the description of the Good Alignment's requirements aren't including such "crusading" behavior. Shipping perfectly preserved corpses far enough to not be able to find news of the attached grave-robbery or murders and hiding signs of violent deaths and being a useful amount of under-35 dead is actually enough layers of strangeness that a simple cursory check with local authorities about if the associated problems are present should be enough for being Good. You don't need to chase down the entire supply chain to personally verify its ethics, you just need some basic consideration to be sure you aren't directly supporting horrible things.

There is also the possibility of playing a Wizard/Favored Soul setup with 6 Wisdom. Rather sub-optimal for a number of reasons (but then, being a Good Necromancer is sub-optimal as a whole with all the nongood requirements written elsewhere), but entirely a valid proposition, and would easily permit a character who doesn't think to ask very many questions for all they're theoretically brilliant. You aren't disqualified from Good if you have a habit of being an unwitting rube, as long as you actually look to answer the wrongs enabled once they come to your awareness. Willful ignorance may cross the line at some point, but being a touch mad to end up ignorant by pure incompetence, to my awareness, doesn't.

The Spoony Bard defense is a rather important one to allowing many iconic roleplay shenanigans, for all it eventually wears on people's nerves, and it's a major point that only Exalted characters aren't allowed straight-up mistakes. Even Paladins specifically qualify knowing association, for all Detect Evil makes a farce of this, and willingly committing an Evil act.


Regarding Stone to Flesh- I disagree with the assertion that it creates something suitable for animation. While the spell does say that you could turn a stone golem into a flesh golem or a statue into a corpse, that's not how golems work, and the initial phrase of turning stone into a "fleshy substance" makes no suggestion that "fleshy substance" includes skeleton, defined muscles, or anything usable. The main sentence seems pretty clearly set on very specifically not creating a "usable corpse," while the paranthetical reads like an addition by a different writer who thought that was actually a good idea and pulled a complete 180 contradiction.
So you're saying that the specfically-written dramatic use case of changing what kind of creature something is is somehow completely at odds with the fluff? When the intended feature of the spell is being an inversion of the process of turning a creature into a statue? It is not a specialty dispel. It is in fact explicitly turning a statue of a human into a human, that is the fluff of how its primary use operates, and thus the Stone Golem to Flesh Golem use case is incongruous because of the Golem part inviting a lot of questions about how the magic is casually twisting like that, not the Stone to Flesh part given that is the name of the spell.

---

As for the meat-tree tangent, perhaps the tree could actually be a high-Wis Int-penalty no-Dex creature with a cephalopod-like neurology, where you have semi-independent nerve clusters "slaved" to a larger central mass. The Int penalty would be that they're limited in bulk cognition and memorization by the decentralized and regularly replaced neural mass. Illithids would be perfectly able to tolerate relying on them as a renewable food supply because the "brain fruit" are technically independently sapient, but aren't fully featured minds unto themselves because they're only responsible for extremity processes like sensory inputs and motor functions.

Throw in a few other partially-sapient regrowable parts on other organisms able to be reliably merged into the full experience in kind and you end up with the Illithid equivalent of high-quality imitation meats that can be prepared in another way, perhaps with a few different ingredients from the standard meals for the different demands, to manufacture Ceremorphosis hosts that actually only finish coming to life because of Ceremorphosis properly unifying the organism, giving a completely non-Evil "vegetarian" Illithid life cycle.

[Maat Mons]

One limitation on Stone to Flesh is that, unless the target was once a creature, it has very strict size limits. The 3-foot diameter already means you can't make a whole corpse from a statue of a human posed with its arms outstretched. Many large creatures probably can't fit in the area regardless of how they're posed, and I'd be surprised to find any huge creatures that fit.

If using this in a game, the real confusion comes when using a statue of an imaginary creature. I mean, a creature more imaginary than typical D&D monsters. Something that has no statblock in any book, because the sculptor just let his imagination run wild. This wasn't a problem back in 3.0, when zombie stats where based on size, and nothing else. But now that the zombie template gives stats based on the stats of the base creature, things get weird.

Another way to get corpses that were never alive is the Clone spell. It's high-level, and takes a long time though. On the plus side, there's no upper limit to size. Getting a cubic inch of dragonflesh could prove tricky.

Actually, do you ever wonder why dragons don't clone themselves? It costs 1,000 gp a pop, sure. But it generates so much more than that in salable dragon parts. If you're luck enough to be a gold dragon, just the heart of your clone is worth 25,000 gp. And gold dragons, along with several others, have native access to the Cleric spell list to Regenerate any tissue samples they extract.

Actually, the heart of a (wyrm or older) gold dragon is worth that much because using it as a material component for Wish covers 5,000 points of the xp cost. And that means they can Wish for 25,000-gp-worth of gold and gems for every clone they make.

[redking]

3.5e has most of the traditional necromancy as evil acts, especially animating the dead. That wasn't the case in 2E. A look at the awesome Complete Book of Necromancers (if you don't have it, get it) reveals that there are three kinds of necromancy on the moral spectrum.

Criminal or Black Necromancy

This necromancy is just what you'd expect. Spreading plagues, bringing evil undead creatures into existence, and causing pain and suffering.

Gray or Neutral Necromancy

Animate dead is not an evil act, according to this. It is how you use the animated dead that matters. So using the animated dead for robbing a caravan makes it evil, while using the animated dead to carry your luggage is not. Still, messing with the dead carries risks of evil taint.

Benign or White Necromancy

Basically spells of the necromancy school that are beneficial and eusocial.

As for your amoral or immoral supplier of corpses, it depends on what they are doing. Robbing graves for corpses is blasphemous, but not murderous. If the cadavers you need must be fresh, you are creating a market for murder and you are morally culpable for it.

[Psyren]

In 3.5, your most ethically sustainable source of corpses would be having craftsmen make statues and casting Stone to Flesh on them. However, this trick was removed in Pathfinder.

[ShurikVch]

Some kinds of Undead required only a part of a body (skin, head, finger bones, etc); thus - you can hire somebody with Regeneration (or use healing magic) and harvest necessary parts

Also, it's not a standard item, but Mask of Diamond Tears (Dungeon #143) allows to create an "mirrored" copy of target creature: copy would be always Evil, can Mirror Jump 3/day (like Shadow Walk - but through reflective surfaces and Plane of Mirrors), and may have different class, race, or template. It's works 1/week for any single target - but get enough targets, kill the copies...

[Calthropstu]

*goes into major city, casts contagion.* Oh noes, a major plague has happened. But fortunately, I am willing to handle the bodies for free so you don't have to pay cremation costs.


Hi Mr. Necro. I have these fresh corpses from a plague city. Don't worry, the virus is dead by now...