Sorcadin: is Clockwork Soul better than Divine Soul?

[Merudo]

For a Paladin / Sorcerer multiclass, how does the Clockwork Soul compared to Divine Soul origin?

I'm fond of the Divine Soul's Spirit Guardian on a Sorcadin, as it adds powerful AoE damage & control. The Favored by the Gods can be a lifesafer too.

Clockwork Soul do provide a lot more spells known, and for plain sorcerers it's a much better origin than Divine Soul, but for a Sorcadin I'm not convinced it beats the Divine Soul.

[Bobthewizard]

I'll vote for the Clockwork Soul. Armor of Agathys, Bastion of Law and the Paladin's Heavy Armor is a pretty good combo. I'd stack that up against Spirit Guardians, especially since it doesn't use your concentration so you can add one more control spell onto that. Then Wall of Force is better than anything on the Cleric or Sorcerer 5th level spell lists. Then add in the 10 extra prepared spells by Sorcerer level 9.

[Theodoxus]

I think it's a matter of your style of gameplay and desire to learn a different one than you're used to.

DS/Paladin is like a comfortable pair of shoes, well worn and easy to slip into. It does what you want, when you want and has no surprises.

CS/Paladin is the new shiny. It's pretty, and looks good at the first pass, but you quickly realize it has a lot of new bells and whistles you're not sure you really need for what you're going to be doing on the daily.

I wouldn't necessarily one is better than the other - just that they do different things for your Paladin, and "better" is super subjective.

[mmcgeach]

I used to be in the Divine Soul Camp, but I find that a Sorcadin isn't using concentration on spirit guardians that much. Assuming a melee build, a Sorcadin is more likely to be using concentration for Fly or (twin cast) Haste in most standard combats. In the future I'd just go with Clockwork.

[Merudo]

I'll vote for the Clockwork Soul. Armor of Agathys, Bastion of Law and the Paladin's Heavy Armor is a pretty good combo. I'd stack that up against Spirit Guardians, especially since it doesn't use your concentration so you can add one more control spell onto that.


Armor of Agathys can be gotten by multiclassing Hexblade 1, and a Sorcadin has far, far better uses for their limited sorcery points than Bastion of Law.



Then Wall of Force is better than anything on the Cleric or Sorcerer 5th level spell lists. Then add in the 10 extra prepared spells by Sorcerer level 9.

Agreed for the Paladin 2 / Sorcerer X, but for a Paladin 6-7 / Sorcerer X that's a long, long way to go.

[MaxWilson]

For a Paladin / Sorcerer multiclass, how does the Clockwork Soul compared to Divine Soul origin?

I'm fond of the Divine Soul's Spirit Guardian on a Sorcadin, as it adds powerful AoE damage & control. The Favored by the Gods can be a lifesafer too.

Clockwork Soul do provide a lot more spells known, and for plain sorcerers it's a much better origin than Divine Soul, but for a Sorcadin I'm not convinced it beats the Divine Soul.

I'm in the camp that wants that extra +2d4 on saves and eventual access to Extended Death Ward/Greater Restoration. Divine Soul for me.

[Trask]

I've been playing a Conquest Paladin 6/ Divine Soul Sorcerer 14 at the 20th level for a while now, and although my experience might not be the most accurate to traditional play since its basically epic level, I think the combo is strong but for other reasons than spells (mostly). Having at-will flight with wings is irreplaceable, and the Favor of the Gods feature is also very strong. The real power spell to have access to in my opinion though is spiritual weapon, so versatile, and so much damage at high levels (and doesnt allow a save which is a plus to me). Having Sending is also absolutely required, but I suspect that is more specific to my campaign.

The spells you get access to are nice, but I find that I don't cast a ton of them that are specifically cleric ones. The old one-two punch of 2 attacks + a quickened GFB or BB while concentrating on haste, spirit guardians, or spirit shroud is a go-to that doesnt totally exhaust you quickly. I think the clockwork soul should do that just fine, maybe even better. But like others have said, the Divine Soul is and probably always will be a good option.

[Merudo]

I'm in the camp that wants that extra +2d4 on saves and eventual access to Extended Death Ward/Greater Restoration. Divine Soul for me.

Clockwork Soul also get Greater Restoration from their Clockwork magic :)

[Willie the Duck]

I think it is going to depend on your conception of being a gish -- are your spells there to support your combat prowess, to supplement it, or a mixture of the two? A clockwork soul sorcadin is much more likely to have a little breathing room in their spells know(/prepared, for the paladin side of things) to have a few spells like see invisible or knock or whatever else might help beyond laying down the smack and maybe a little healing/restoration support. So I guess the question is 'how many other spellcasters does the party have?' that determines my answer.

[MaxWilson]

Clockwork Soul also get Greater Restoration from their Clockwork magic :)

Ah, point taken.

Still, I do want the +2d4 saves and Death Ward. Maybe I'd want Spirit Guardians too, maybe not. Depending on how I do level progression I may want Revivify from DS 5 (as opposed to Paladin 9).

Overall, Clockwork Soul is more tempting to me as a sorlock than a paladorc.

[Hael]

I’d say it’s all a sidegrade. Certain paladin oaths synergize better with one vs the other. Eg crown would be better as a CS, whereas ancients seems better as a DS.

[Merudo]

The real power spell to have access to in my opinion though is spiritual weapon, so versatile, and so much damage at high levels (and doesnt allow a save which is a plus to me).

Upcasting Spiritual Weapon is usually a waste for a Sorcadin.

A level 6 Spiritual Weapon will do about 18.5 damage on a hit. Meanwhile, Quicken + either Booming Blade or Green-Flame Blade with a Longsword and no boost to damage, will do about the same damage, plus the rider effect.

If you instead quicken an Agonizing Eldritch Blast you are looking at 31.5 damage, 170% of the damage of SW.

[kingcheesepants]

Well it depends on what kind of a sorcadin you're aiming to be, each subclass has it's own advantages but I feel that clockwork soul is stronger overall. The bonus spells clockwork gets are the kinds of spells that a sorcadin is generally interested in taking to begin with (absorb elements, shield, haste, fly) and thus opens him up to take a number of other impactful options in addition. Furthermore while adding an extra 2d4 can save your butt when it comes to making an important save, getting rid of an enemies advantage or disadvantage (i.e. magic resistance) can be just as important and can be used more often and the number of uses scales with your level. Bastion of Law isn't something I would use too often as a sorcadin (too expensive and I'm already on a tight budget with SP) but honestly Empowered Healing isn't much better. The level 14 feature probably won't come into play in most games but if it does the clockwork feature is better by a huge margin for honestly any character but particularly for characters that are in the front lines.

[RSP]

Well it depends on what kind of a sorcadin you're aiming to be, each subclass has it's own advantages but I feel that clockwork soul is stronger overall. The bonus spells clockwork gets are the kinds of spells that a sorcadin is generally interested in taking to begin with (absorb elements, shield, haste, fly) and thus opens him up to take a number of other impactful options in addition. Furthermore while adding an extra 2d4 can save your butt when it comes to making an important save, getting rid of an enemies advantage or disadvantage (i.e. magic resistance) can be just as important and can be used more often and the number of uses scales with your level. Bastion of Law isn't something I would use too often as a sorcadin (too expensive and I'm already on a tight budget with SP) but honestly Empowered Healing isn't much better. The level 14 feature probably won't come into play in most games but if it does the clockwork feature is better by a huge margin for honestly any character but particularly for characters that are in the front lines.

Each subclass does have its advantages, but I’d disagree that the CS has a better 14th level ability. I’d take free, always available, Concentration-less flight over a one-minute dice-roll buff, every time.

Flying overcomes so many combat and out of combat issues, it’s not even close (at least in my opinion).

But this only matters to the OP if they’re taking Sorc to 14. Ultimately, I think, the answer to the OP involves what the mix of Paladin to Sorc they want, what level they’re going to, their playstyle, and what they want to be good at/able to do.