Experienced help with Bard stats/skills.

[jackedjames123]

Very new player and I am having some issues regarding my bard and his skills.

My party and I are only level 4.
All of us our new to the game including our DM so its a learning curve for sure but with that being said my skill proficiency modifiers have come into question recently with my DM and other party members.

I have a half elf lore bard w/ charlatan background. I rolled semi-decent for my stats in the beginning (I can post them if it helps).

The issue came up last session on how my PC has +7 to deception and intimidation plus a few skills at +5 as well, I do have some very low skills as well or even zero so its not like all of my skill stats are pumped up that high. I have been tracking with a pencil and paper but using DnDbeyond to keep me honest and do the math for me.

I've been conversing with my DM every time we level up as well just to make sure I am doing it right and not fudging it up so I was a bit confused when my stats came into question.


I guess my question for more experienced bard player is: Does this sound like I screwed something up stat wise? I have no idea where my stats are supposed to be at this level so I have no reference point.

Thank you in advance.

[BoutsofInsanity]

MORE INFO Required.

Gimme the following.

Race -
Stat Scores
Str
Dex
Con
Wis
Int
Cha

Lastly give me the skills you are proficient in.

[chiefwaha]

A little more info would definitely be helpful, but +7 for a charisma stat on a bard at level 4 does not see out of line. My assumption is you expertised it and have a +3 charisma modifier. It would also explain the +5 stats, assuming they're also CHA based, but not expertised.

[RogueJK]

Intimidation and Deception both key off Charisma. The calculation for the bonus if you're proficient with them is Charisma Modifier + Proficiency Modifier.

A level 4 character has a +2 Proficiency Modifier.

So to have a +7 total bonus, you'd either need a 20 Charisma (for a +5 Charisma Bonus), or else have Expertise in those skills.

Bards get the Expertise ability in their choice of 2 skills at Level 3. Were Intimidation and Deception the two skills you chose? It looks like that's the case here.

If you have Expertise in a skill, then you get to double your Proficiency Bonus. That'd be +4 Proficiency Bonus, allowing you to have a total of a +7 bonus with just a 16 Charisma (+3 Charisma Modifier). 4+3=7

Whereas, if you don't have Expertise in a Charisma-based skill with which you're proficient, and have a 16 Charisma, that would just be a +5 total bonus. 2+3=5


The others are likely just confused because most other classes don't get Expertise to double their Proficiency Bonus on some skills (barring Rogues, and a couple other specific subclass exceptions). And they are very unlikely to have a 20 in a stat at Level 4. So other characters are probably maxing out at something like +5 or +6 on their best skills, and wondering why yours is better on those two skills.

Expertise is the key. It's one of the big perks of being a Bard or Rogue. You get to be better at a few skills than just about anyone else.

[jackedjames123]

I expertised deception and sleight of hand.
Jack of all trades helped a bit on the others.
College of lore helped with a few as well.

Half elf
strength: 0
dex: +2
con: -1
wis: 0
int: +2
Char: +5
(This is at level 4)

Skills:
Acro: +3
animal handling: 0
arcana: +4
Athletics: 0
Deception: +7
History: +4
Insight: +2
Intimidation: +7
Investigation: +2
Medicine: +1
Nature: +1
Perc: +2
Performance: +5
Persuasion: +5
Religion: +2
SoH:+7
Stealth: +3
survival:+1

[RogueJK]

Well, there you go. No Expertise needed. You have a 20 Charisma, which is a +5 bonus. Add in your +2 Proficiency bonus, and that's +7 total.


It's just uncommon for a Level 4 character to have a 20 Charisma. That's probably the source of the confusion. But the +7 bonus is legit.


However, I'm confused by some of your other skill bonuses. For example, Performance and Persuasion. Those are also Charisma-based skills. If you're proficient in that skill, that should be +7 too. And even if you're not proficient in Persuasion and/or Performance, Bards have the Jack of All Trades ability that lets them add half of their Proficiency bonus to any skill that they're not proficient. So your Persuasion and Performance bonuses should be 6 if not proficient (1+5) or 7 if proficient (2+5).

Then there's Sleight of Hand. It's a DEX skill, and you have a +2 DEX bonus. So if you're Proficient in Sleight of Hand, that should be +4 bonus (2+2). Even if you have Expertise in Sleight of Hand, it would only be +6 (4+2).

Also Religion. It's an INT skill, and you have +2 INT. Proficiency in Religion would give you +4 (2+2). Non-proficient with Jack of All Trades would be +3 (1+3).


Which two skills did you take Expertise in?

[jackedjames123]

Well, there you go. No Expertise needed. You have a 20 Charisma, which is a +5 bonus. Add in your +2 Proficiency bonus, and that's +7 total.


It's just uncommon for a Level 4 character to have a 20 Charisma. That's probably the source of the confusion. But the +7 bonus is legit.


However, I'm confused by some of your other skill bonuses. For example, Persuasion. It's also a Charisma-based skill. If you're proficient in that skill, that should be +7 too. And even if you're not proficient in Persuasion, Bards have the Jack of All Trades ability that lets them add half of their Proficiency bonus to any skill that they're not proficient. So your Persuasion bonus should be 6 if not proficient (1+5) or 7 if proficient (2+5).

Also, which two skills did you take Expertise in?

I changed some of them because my DM did not allow it since there was confusion when I went college of lore and expertise.

Then everyone got pissed that I was arguing with the DM so I shut up.

Thats why this is frustrating/confusing from a player standpoint.

Deception and sleight of hand is my expertise.

[Aaron Underhand]

I expertised deception and sleight of hand.
Jack of all trades helped a bit on the others.
College of lore helped with a few as well.

Half elf
strength: 0
dex: +2
con: -1
wis: 0
int: +2
Char: +5
(This is at level 4)

Skills:
Acro: +3
animal handling: 0
arcana: +4
Athletics: 0
Deception: +7
History: +4
Insight: +2
Intimidation: +7
Investigation: +2
Medicine: +1
Nature: +1
Perc: +2
Performance: +5
Persuasion: +5
Religion: +2
SoH:+7
Stealth: +3
survival:+1

Need to know your proficiencies and expertise but lore bard half elf will be strong in skills (and soon dead with a con score <10 )

SoH should probably be 6 with expertise and dex +2. Make sure you didn't add Joat to it as well. You only get Joat if you are Not proficient

[RogueJK]

Deception and sleight of hand is my expertise.

Then both are wrong as posted.

Sleight of Hand would be +6. 2 Proficiency bonus, doubled to 4, plus 2 DEX bonus = 6.

Deception would be +9. 2 Proficiency bonus, doubled to 4, plus 5 CHA bonus = 9.

[jackedjames123]

Then both are wrong. Sleight of Hand would be +6. 2 Proficiency bonus, doubled to 4, plus 2 DEX bonus = 6.

Deception would be +9. 2 Proficiency bonus, doubled to 4, plus 5 CHA bonus = 9.

I will update those when I get my stat sheet.

I appreciate all the help everyone.

[Bobthewizard]

With Bold for proficiency and Red for Expertise, it looks like you have 7 proficiencies and 2 of those with expertise, but you missed Jack of All Trades on a couple skills. Expertise in SOH should get you to +6, and Deception +9.

Acro: +3
animal handling: 0 (+1)
arcana: +4
Athletics: 0 (+1)
Deception: +7 (+9)
History: +4
Insight: +2
Intimidation: +7
Investigation: +2 (+3)
Medicine: +1
Nature: +1 (+3)
Perc: +2
Performance: +5 (+6)
Persuasion: +5 (+6)
Religion: +2 (+3)
SoH:+7 (+6)
Stealth: +3
survival:+1

[Aaron Underhand]

With Bold for proficiency and Red for Expertise, it looks like you have 6 proficiencies and 2 of those with expertise, but you missed Jack of All Trades on a couple skills. Expertise in SOH should get you to +6, and Deception +9.

Acro: +3
animal handling: 0 (+1)
arcana: +4
Athletics: 0 (+1)
Deception: +7 (+9)
History: +4
Insight: +2
Intimidation: +7
Investigation: +2 (+3)
Medicine: +1
Nature: +1 (+3)
Perc: +2
Performance: +5 (+6)
Persuasion: +5 (+6)
Religion: +2 (+3)
SoH:+7 (+6)
Stealth: +3
survival:+1


That is nowhere near enough proficiencies for a half elf lore bard. 2 from background, 2 from race, 3 from bard and 3 extra from lore bard at 3rd level should be 10

[BloodSnake'sCha]

That is nowhere near enough proficiencies for a half elf lore bard. 2 from background, 2 from race, 3 from bard and 3 extra from lore bard at 3rd level should be 10

Some backgrounds don't offer skill proficiency but he still have only 6 out of the minimum of 8-10 he should have.



OP, talk to your DM about it, show him what Bobthewizard wrote.

Your skills are a mess, you should stick to what d&d byound gave you and make sure you choose all your skills and expertises.

[Bovine Colonel]

Some backgrounds don't offer skill proficiency but he still have only 6 out of the minimum of 8-10 he should have.

The OP specified Charlatan, which gives 2 skill proficiencies.

The strangest thing about all this, to me, is that the OP's group is somehow surprised that a half-elf lore bard is good at skills?

[chiefwaha]

The OP specified Charlatan, which gives 2 skill proficiencies.

The strangest thing about all this, to me, is that the OP's group is somehow surprised that a half-elf lore bard is good at skills?

OP said his group is all new to the game.

[Bovine Colonel]

OP said his group is all new to the game.

Oops, missed that.

[Emongnome777]

May also help to post a link to your character in DDB. In the character sheet view, click on your pic on the top left, then click shareable link. We can pull it up from the link if it’s set to public.

[Bobthewizard]

That is nowhere near enough proficiencies for a half elf lore bard. 2 from background, 2 from race, 3 from bard and 3 extra from lore bard at 3rd level should be 10

I missed Arcana, so it's up to 7. Changed my post above.

[Chronos]

Every background gives two skills. What varies is tools and/or languages: Some get two tools, some get two languages, and some get one of each.

[quindraco]

I expertised deception and sleight of hand.
Jack of all trades helped a bit on the others.
College of lore helped with a few as well.

Half elf
strength: 0
dex: +2
con: -1
wis: 0
int: +2
Char: +5
(This is at level 4)

Skills:
Acro: +3
animal handling: 0
arcana: +4
Athletics: 0
Deception: +7
History: +4
Insight: +2
Intimidation: +7
Investigation: +2
Medicine: +1
Nature: +1
Perc: +2
Performance: +5
Persuasion: +5
Religion: +2
SoH:+7
Stealth: +3
survival:+1

I think this was already posted, but your bonuses are incorrect. Correct values:

Half elf
strength: 0
dex: +2
con: -1
wis: 0
int: +2
Char: +5
(This is at level 4)

Skills:
Acro: +3 (jack)
animal handling: 0 +1 (jack)
arcana: +4 (proficient)
Athletics: 0 +1 (jack)
Deception: +7 +9 (expertise)
History: +4 (proficient)
Insight: +2 (proficient)
Intimidation: +7 (proficient)
Investigation: +2 +3 (jack)
Medicine: +1 (jack)
Nature: +1 +3 (jack)
Perc: +2 (proficient)
Performance: +5 +6 (jack)
Persuasion: +5 +6 (jack)
Religion: +2 +3 (jack)
SoH:+7 +6 (expertise)
Stealth: +3 (jack)
survival:+1 (jack)

That's only 7 ability check proficiencies, which shouldn't be possible. You should have 3 from bard and 3 from lore you literally can't say no to. Your race should provide 2 stock, and if you're a variant and didn't tell us, it should provide 0 - getting you to 6 or 8, not 7. You said you're a charlatan, which is another 2 proficiencies. So you should have 10 proficiencies, or 8 if you're a variant subrace and didn't tell us. 7 is right out.

[Theodoxus]

Others have worked out your skills, but I'm far more interested in how you've managed to make it to level four with a -1 Con mod! Does your party have a dedicated healer, or are you just lucky?
Side topic: what spells did you take? Lore is my favorite flavor of Bard, even if it is just basically "MOAR BARD!!!". Always curious how others play it :smallbiggrin:

[jackedjames123]

I expertised deception and sleight of hand.
Jack of all trades helped a bit on the others.
College of lore helped with a few as well.

Half elf
strength: 0
dex: +2
con: +3
wis: 0
int: +1
Char: 18 total
(This is at level 4)

Skills:
Acro: +3
animal handling: 0
arcana: +4
Athletics: 0
Deception: +7
History: +4
Insight: +2
Intimidation: +7
Investigation: +2
Medicine: +1
Nature: +1
Perc: +2
Performance: +5
Persuasion: +5
Religion: +2
SoH:+7
Stealth: +3
survival:+1


I fudged up my base scores so I am sorry for the confusion. Talking to my DM now with my stat sheet.

[Corvino]

If in doubt, you could use the DnDbeyond.com character sheets. Lore Bards and Half-elves are core so you don't need to pay to use them.

The online character sheet will do all the calculations for you, and remind you of you've got things left to do. And if your DM wants to check your homework then you can share them online.