Melee Dragon Disciple Two-Handed-Fighting Build Help

[BjornBear]

Recently I have been working on a character. It's not an amazing concept, but it's something I'm beginning to hold dear to me. My main issue is trying to build this darn thing! A little bit of backstory for the character that may help with building. He's a Human (bland, I know), who's ancestor was a Great Wyrm Red Dragon titled Sanguine Sovereign. Sanguine Sovereign grew bored of doing nothing but torture, death, and fear, and instead turned to helping people disguised as a human. One thing led to another and over the centuries, Rorik (my character), came to be. There is only ever one living blood member of the Sanguine family. The character is a traveling chaotic neutral warrior who is constantly trying to be a good person, but constantly feels that innate urge to do violent, cruel things that a red dragon would. Character starts at level 9 (taking Dragon Disciple at level 6-15 for the full 10 in the class, this is a requirement). I'm wanting him to be, as the title says, a melee class built around two-handed-fighting (greatsword) that can keep up with the rest of my party. For reference, we all rolled 4d6 + 5 for stats (drop the lowest). We've got a dragonfire adept (gold variant, which is why I'm doing the red dragon disciple for a bit of a dynamic), a vow of nonviolence cleric, a summoner wizard, and my big boi named Lug. Lug has an HP total of 113 and is constantly dropped to 13 or so in every combat encounter, high AC or no. He is also the only character who has outputted enough damage to take down an enemy in the combats.

Stats for Rorik at level 9
Str: 28 (2 is from ogre gauntlets renamed and stylized to fit the remnants of his ancestor)
Dex: 18
Con: 22
Int: 19
Wis: 16
Cha: 15

As of right now, there are only two ways to get to this thing.
Full BAB Class/Spontaneous Arcane Class 1/Red Dragon Disciple 10
Duskblade 5/ Red Dragon Disciple 10

I'm trying to avoid the Duskblade because I don't want to ruin any encounters with how "OP" I've been told they are (that true strike does look real pretty though lol). I don't mind fighter, warblade, I'd prefer not barbarian. I am also not wanting to make this a trip or grapple build, because those always seem way too cheesy for me to enjoy personally. I just want this guy to keep up with the party instead of being a hindrance. Help would be greatly appreciated.

As an edit: I'm really looking into the Fighter 4/Duskblade1/Red Dragon Disciple 10 thing. Those extra feats going into specializing the greatsword is quite attractive.

[H_H_F_F]

I understand you expect this campaign to go to high levels, correct?

You know your group better than I do, but with 2 tier 1 casters in the mix, starting with 5ths, duskblade/dragon disciple really isn't op. It's weaker than pure duskblade, which should be far from op at that table too. Unless by "summoning wizard" you mean "a wizard who casts only summon monster, using phb options, while having no feats or items to help with summoning", this guy should blow you out of the water easily. That doesn't have to be a bad thing! Having such high power characters alongside you also means you get to build your character as strong as you'd like without worry.

As a duskblade 5/DD X, you'd be able to wear mithral full plate, cast lots of 2nd level spells, and have a pretty good attack routine with quick cast 1/day. It's the most obvious route to go with a melee dragon disciple, and it should be fun. Unless it's their first time playing a caster, it's almost impossible for you to overshadow the cleric and the wizard - so just have fun!

Also, if you're looking for build inspiration or creative ides, I recommend looking at the Dragon Disciple round of the Iron Chef. (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?246072-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-XXXIV/page5) 23 unique Dragon Disciple builds for you to draw inspiration from!

[Anthrowhale]

If you want a greater-than-great sword, you could use Exotic Weapon Proficiency[Heavy(Magic of Faerun) Full Blade (Arms&Equipment)], which you could get for free using the Exoticist Fighter variant (Dragon #310).

[RNightstalker]

I don't remember where they are at the moment, but there are some feats that give the ability to cast a couple spells a few times a day, which I don't know if they have the spellcasting class feature as a prerequisite, but something to look at.
I'm also partial to the fighter class, though I hope that you don't get the "why be a fighter" and worse replies. Go for it. Do the fighter4/sorcerer1 thing. Get that Weapon Specialization: Greatsword. It will open up Melee Weapon Mastery later on.

[H_H_F_F]

If you pick up Duskblade (which is a fine way to go) you have to take [spontaneous caster] feat

Duskblades are spontaneous casters.

[Darg]

I don't remember where they are at the moment, but there are some feats that give the ability to cast a couple spells a few times a day, which I don't know if they have the spellcasting class feature as a prerequisite, but something to look at.

Precocious Apprentice does, but magical training requires being a regional human/elf or ranks in regional knowledge skills to qualify.

That said, dragon blood races + dragon tail (or a normal human with the dragontouched feat) gets you a tail attack and qualifies you early for the multiattack feat (TWF with UAS + tail = 3 natural attacks). + it fills out the dragon aesthetic.

Focusing on a single weapon would be a disservice to the natural weapons at your disposal by level 7. If I did, I like the blood-spiked charger feat which allows you to do 3.5x strength damage on a charge with a two handed heavy spiked shield. If at level 1 you take dragon wings and get improved dragons wings, you can make a dive charge (a dive normally only applies to natural weapons only) and double all that damage. You can skip TWF and get gloves of the balanced hand instead.

Sample:

Silverbrow human fighter/DD

Elite array: 15/14/13/12/10/8

1) magical training, dragon wings, weapon focus (spiked shield)
2) power attack
3) improved bull rush
4) weapon focus (spiked armor), +1 str
6) blood-spiked charger, improved dragon wings
7) DD level 1
8) claws and bite attacks, +3 str
9) improved flight
10) +2 str
12) multiattack, +2 con and +1 str
14) +2 int
15) improved multiattack
16) +13 str and other half dragon traits.

If people try to say that DD and the half-dragon template don't stack, tell them you'll take the template from level 1 instead because that will give you 7 extra class levels to do something else even more ridiculous (at level 15/16 the benefits stacking are hardly worth a second glance anyway). Level up bonuses stack with racial bonuses by RAW and it also seems silly to say that it takes 10 levels to do something that actually costs only 3 levels.

[RaiKirah]

Honestly, the way you've got this set up is pretty good for what you want to do while sticking to unambiguous RAW. Duskblade is great, and Fighter or Warblade 4/Sorcerer 1 gives you a lot of options

Another thought, assuming you can work with your DM or have access to Dragon Mag materials to deal with the alignment portion, would be to go Paladin 5/Dragon Disciple 10, using Magical Training to qualify for DD. The Bonus Spells don't specifically require being added to an Arcane class, so you could get extra Paladin slots, which can be fantastic even at only level 1 (Rhino's Rush is a swift action for double damage on a charge). There's a CN variant in DragMag 310 I believe, and there are so many Alternative Class features scattered around that you can make nearly any flavor of Paladin you want. This would also give you Turn Undead, which you can use to fuel Devotion feats, which are both good and flavorful.

[Paragon]

You can find 2 Dragonborn build to get inspired off over here (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13m4hw6j_Y8Nt7H5e9OuCBUb1OOARbaCA4TjSfY0GI9I/edit?usp=sharing) in the Customizable sheet. They're mine after your post inspired me :D

[BjornBear]

I'm glad I could inspire some positive stuff!

As a sidenote, to Darg, I don't think you can use Silverbrow because your race has to be nondragon and I believe you can't have the dragonblood subtype. I wanted to do Silverbrow at first as well lol

[Darg]

I'm glad I could inspire some positive stuff!

As a sidenote, to Darg, I don't think you can use Silverbrow because your race has to be nondragon and I believe you can't have the dragonblood subtype. I wanted to do Silverbrow at first as well lol

You can't be the dragon type. Dragonblooded is wholly separate from being a dragon. The rules even state that once you become a dragon you lose the dragonblooded subtype. In this way you can indeed become a dragon disciple as any of the dragonblooded races or if you have the dragontouched feat.

[Particle_Man]

If you want to add a little dark flavour, you might consider Hexblade.

But if there is only one living blood relative at a time of the red dragon, be careful about pregnancies. Could be hazardous to your health!:smallsmile:

[BjornBear]

As a reply to the hexblade comment, hexblade's are super cool. They are also charisma casters. They also don't get spontaneous casting until level 4 and are really weak. I'm playing one in a separate campaign where the DM was super kind and allowed one of Mike Mearl's fixes where you get 1+Cha times per day for your curse. He is also allowing me to take curse feats (that stack with my curse, as per his ruling) as Hexblade Bonus Feats. I must say, I would always recommend a Hexblade for flavor and character, actual statwise? Not at all.