[3.5] Cleric/Sacred Fist VoP build

[Thurbane]

So, just for idle curiously (and possible for a future PC or NPC), what would be an optimized (or at least, as optimized as VoP allows for) Cleric/Sacred fist build?

Reqs: primary casting class must be Cleric (or Cloistered Cleric), must have levels in Sacred Fist. Dips or other PrCs are fine (i.e. Monk 1 to help SF reqs). ACFs from allowed sources are OK. Race must be a standard PHB race, or MM1 variant of same. No templates. Assume elite array or 32 point buy.

Banned Sources: no PF, no Kalamar, Ravenloft or Dragonlance (apart from campaign setting book); no 3rd party, no homebrew. No flaws, traits or other UA alternatives (aside from Cloistered Cleric). No adaptations (i.e. no Unarmed Swordsage). Prefer to have no Dragon or Dungeon mag stuff, no psionics, no incarnum, no artificers.

I will be using the Worldly Focus feat to get around the dysfunction of VoP and holy symbols (the feat reqs regarding Sovereign Host are somewhat relaxed).

The aim is to have a full caster getting 9ths, but also be competent at unarmed combat. Some cheese is OK, but extreme cheese, NI loops etc. are not.

Cheers - T

[Anthrowhale]

The obvious choice is some form of persistomancer. Spelldancer costs 2 feats more than divine metamagic, but is typically more capable.

The Transformation domain is potentially extremely useful.

Maybe Changeling Monk 2/Cleric[Transformation, Planning] 4/Sacred Fist 3/Spelldancer 1/Sacred Fist 7/??

Feats:
1. Combat Casting
Monk 1: Improved Unarmed Strike
Monk 1: Stunning Fist
Monk 2: Combat Reflexes
3. Dodge
Planning domain: Extend Spell
6. Mobility
9. Endurance
12. Persistent Spell
...

[Albanymusicfund]

TBH the Sacred Fist class is fun flavorfully, but the Enlightened Fist class is more coherent mechanically speaking. I personally would recommend just homebrewing the Enlightened Fist class but for divine spells.

[Maat Mons]

If you dip Monk for Unarmored AC, and take all 10 levels of Sacred Fist, that's 3 lost caster levels. If you want to hit the benchmark of 9th-level spells at 20th level, that's the maximum number you can lose.

So that would make your build something like Monk 1 / Cleric 4 / Sacred Fist 10 / full-casting PrC 5. If the version of Cleric you use is the regular, non-Cloistered one, and the other PrC you choose gets 3/4 base attack bonus, you actually would hit +16 base attack bonus at 20th level. That's commonly considered a benchmark a "gish" should reach.

If you take the Superior Unarmed Strike feat, you could get your effective Monk level up to: 1 (monk) + 10 (Sacred Fist) + 4 (Superior Unarmed Strike) = 15. So 2d6 damage. That's actually what the Superior Unarmed Strike feat would give you without any Monk levels. This would just bump it up from kicking in at level 16 to kicking in at level 12.

Normally, having 2d6 unarmed damage from effective Monk level 15 would be more desirable that having 2d6 unarmed damage from Superior Unarmed Strike alone, because the former would allow you to get a Monk's Tattoo to up it to 2d10 damage. But this is a Vow of Poverty Character, so violating the spirit of VoP with an incredibly expensive tattoo might not go over well.

I'm not sure what you'd want to do for the 2nd PrC. I don't remember there being any full-base-attack-bonus divine PrCs that don't lose caster levels. So a full-casting, 3/4 base-attack-bonus PrC might be the best you can hope for. And there are scads of those to choose from.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Windwalker is full BAB and full divine casting, iirc. But its not particularily easy to qualify for, unfortunately.

[AnimeTheCat]

If you dip Monk for Unarmored AC, and take all 10 levels of Sacred Fist, that's 3 lost caster levels. If you want to hit the benchmark of 9th-level spells at 20th level, that's the maximum number you can lose.

That's not necessarily true. If you strictly adhere to "text trumps table" the text of the sacred fist spellcasting does not state that you do not progress spellcasting. In fact, it says,


When a new Sacred Fist level is gained, the character gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if he had gained a level in whatever spellcasting class in which he could cast divine spells before he added the prestige class.

So, if youre a strict adherent to "text trumps table", this text lacks anything that removes spellcasting levels at 4 and 8 of Sacred Fist, per the table. This is a typo either in the text of Sacred Fist (and Rainbow Servant, for that matter) spells entry, or in the Sacred Fist table entry, because the Hospitaler (in the same book) specifically calls out the levels which lack spellcasting progression.

I'm inclined to believe that it was in fact a text typo, because the Enlightened Fist is the closest similar class and it does take away 2 spellcasting levels. However, if it was a typo, it was never errata'd away, and the text stands. So... I'm good with it going either way personally and it has yet to negatively impact my games.

[Thurbane]

Interesting point, although our group would 100% play it as per the table (so 8/10 progression), same as we do for Rainbow Servant.

[Psyren]

With no Ur-Priest and the banned sources you listed, there isn't likely a way to hit 9ths with this build. That's not the worst thing in the world especially if you don't plan to go epic, but it is something to be aware of.

[Thurbane]

With no Ur-Priest and the banned sources you listed, there isn't likely a way to hit 9ths with this build. That's not the worst thing in the world especially if you don't plan to go epic, but it is something to be aware of.

I dunno, as Maat Mons said, Monk 1/Cleric 9/SF 10 gets 9ths (barely). Doesn't even have to be Cleric 9, could slot another PrC in there so long as it's full casting.

I'm not that hung up on hitting BAB +16, since DMM persisting Divine Power is an option.

[Psyren]

I dunno, as Maat Mons said, Monk 1/Cleric 9/SF 10 gets 9ths (barely). Doesn't even have to be Cleric 9, could slot another PrC in there so long as it's full casting.

I'm not that hung up on hitting BAB +16, since DMM persisting Divine Power is an option.

I actually messed up and thought SF needed the Still Mind feature as a prereq. Yeah given that you only need 1 level of monk this should be fine.