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Jeivar
2021-08-12, 11:31 AM
No, I'm not planning to convince my DM to let me play as Spidey. I just suddenly started thinking of Spider-Man on Faerun, and the thought occurred that there is almost nothing there that could threaten him.

Take just his Strength. The old number for his maximum lift weight is 10 tons, which is 20.000 pounds. In the game, maximum lift is 30 times one's Strength score. That comes out as his Strength being 666!! Absolutely nothing in the game even comes close to that. Going by the numbers, he could arm-wrestle a Storm Giant without the slightest effort. And that's on the low estimate of his full Strength.

Mentally, he is very smart, but not to "smartest man in the world" levels. Although, to be fair, he lives on the same planet as Reed Richards and Doctor Doom. Let's say, Intelligence: 16. His Wisdom isn't always perfect, but on the other hand he repeatedly powers through extreme challenges through sheer willpower. Let's say... Wisdom 12-14? Charisma-wise, being a big charmer isn't a major feature of his, but he IS famously good at riling enemies with mockery and banter. Let's say 12-14, again.

I don't even know what to say about his Constitution or Dexterity, since he can survive punches from the Hulk and dodge automatic gunfire and laser beams.

Obviously, he would have permanent Spider-Climb. I also think Uncanny Dodge, Evasion, and Elusive to simulate the Spider Sense.

What do you think? And do you think anything could actually pose a threat to him? Judging by how he goes through Hand ninjas, evil robots and whatnot, he could punch his way through an entire orc horde.

HolyDraconus
2021-08-13, 12:03 PM
I don't think this is the right area for this but I will bite anyway.

Spidey's strength in 5e is 30. Nothing, not even gods, can break the 30 threshhold, regardless of how much they can lift. Its a game mechanic. Similarly, his dex would also be 30. his con would most likely settle around 20. He's healthy but not to absurd degrees, and it doesn't accurately portray regeneration anyway. Int would be 18. He's made some incredible things over the years, but he's not competing with the absolute top directly. Wisdom is 16. There's some things that shouldn't have got to him that did. Charisma is 12. He applies himself so it seems more than it is, but he's average looking and doesn't just win people over with banter; it normally takes deeds. Any god from Faerun can take him, with Tiamat being the lowball case since they actually statted her. He's not solo'ing Acererak, who would most likely find the whole thing amusing. Elminster and Halaster would both roll him as well, with Elminster having a HIGH possibility of knowing WHO Spidey is, as well as his secret identity: He has in canon travelled the multiverse, which includes our Earth.


Basically, the Faerun version of Avengers would be able to take Spidey, but the others, like Drizzt and his crew, would need to get lucky but are capable of doing such.

Rater202
2021-08-13, 12:26 PM
1: For the sake of clarity, Spidey's maximum strength is not ten tons, that's his sustainable maximum. He can hold a ten-ton weight as long as he needs to.

His maximum lift has never been clocked but in his late teens he was able to lift a mass of metal and machinery that would have been about 120-160 tons off of himself and as an adult, he was able to support the eight of the Daily Bugel building long enough for it to be evacuated after one of its crucial supports was destroyed.

During the Superior Spider-Man arc, Doc Ock in Peter's body was strong enough that The Hulk(in his Doc Green Personality) and Jane Foster wielding Mjolnir tried to hold him down and he just kept walking while dragging them behind him.

2: Regarding his intelligence, he is explicitly the equal, if not the superior, of Reed Richards. It's noted that he has the same grades in the same classes that Reed did at the same school(and Reed was a full-time student, Peter was a full-time student, a part-time photographer, a full-time crime fighter, and his aunt's primary caregiver,) Reed has on more than one occasion gone to Pete for help in Peter's specific areas of focus, and saught Peter out for his Think-Tanks.

The reason Peter isn't constantly making world-changing inventions is partly becuase he's a hero first and a scientist second and partly becuase he doesn't have the time or money to get a PHD in literally everything, let alone spend all of his days tinkering with whatever, the way Reed does.

He also canonically has an IG of about 250, which isn't possible in real life becuase the world population isn't high enough to accurately measure that, but it's worth noting.

He's also canonically good-looking to a degree and able to make friends with people you really woulnd't think would get along with him...

Basically what HolyDraconus said, but bump the int up to... 25 and charisma up to a 16.

Rynjin
2021-08-13, 11:46 PM
Spidey's strength in 5e is 30. Nothing, not even gods, can break the 30 threshhold, regardless of how much they can lift. Its a game mechanic. Similarly, his dex would also be 30.

This is the absolute wrong way to look at things for a discussion like this. If a character is canonically able to do something that not even the gods of a specific universe can do, then they're simply better than the gods in that respect at least. So we know if nothing else Spider-man would win an arm wrestling contest with any of the deities in the setting since they apparently have a hard cap on their ability well below the threshold he's known to meet.

Peelee
2021-08-14, 12:04 AM
The Mod on the Silver Mountain: Moved to 5e.

Hytheter
2021-08-14, 12:19 AM
The old number for his maximum lift weight is 10 tons, which is 20.000 pounds. In the game, maximum lift is 30 times one's Strength score. That comes out as his Strength being 666!!

You forgot to account for his Supernaturally Powerful Build feature, which drastically increases carry capacity.

JackPhoenix
2021-08-14, 05:54 AM
This is the absolute wrong way to look at things for a discussion like this. If a character is canonically able to do something that not even the gods of a specific universe can do, then they're simply better than the gods in that respect at least. So we know if nothing else Spider-man would win an arm wrestling contest with any of the deities in the setting since they apparently have a hard cap on their ability well below the threshold he's known to meet.

No, *that* is the absolute wrong way to look at things. If you want to represent a character within certain ruleset, he needs to fit within that ruleset.

In other words, either Spider-man has to be modified in a way that fits 5e rules, regardless of his feats from unrelated media, or he can't exist in 5e.

That's why "how would you stat [character from unrelated fiction] in 5e" threads are stupid. 5e D&D is made for 5e D&D characters, nothing else.

Unoriginal
2021-08-14, 06:28 AM
No, *that* is the absolute wrong way to look at things. If you want to represent a character within certain ruleset, he needs to fit within that ruleset.

In other words, either Spider-man has to be modified in a way that fits 5e rules, regardless of his feats from unrelated media, or he can't exist in 5e.

That's why "how would you stat [character from unrelated fiction] in 5e" threads are stupid. 5e D&D is made for 5e D&D characters, nothing else.

To be fair, you could take the concept of Spider-Man, "smart guy get mutated by SCIENCE! and get superpowers, so he decides to put a mask on and to help people", and do it in 5e.


Which would probably mean... a Faceless Symic Hybrid Battle Smith Artificier.

KorvinStarmast
2021-08-14, 06:34 AM
Spidey's strength in 5e is 30. Nothing, not even gods, can break the 30 threshhold, regardless of how much they can lift. Its a game mechanic.
Not strictly true. Avatars of the gods, which are creatures, can't break 30. Gods aren't creatures, and don't have stat blocks. They have so far not made that mistake in this edition - giving gods stat blocks.

Chronos
2021-08-14, 07:38 AM
Back when 5e came out, and people were complaining about the lower power level, someone made the analogy "Some people prefer DC power levels, while some prefer Marvel", meaning that 5e was the lower-power Marvel version, and 3e was the higher-power DC version. I pointed out the same issue with Spider-Man being canonically far, far stronger than it's possible to be in 5e... and among Marvel characters, Spidey isn't even particularly noted for his strength. Off the top of my head, Hulk, She-Hulk, Captain Marvel, Thor, Beast, Thing, Colossus, Juggernaut, most Iron Man suits, and probably Valkyrie are all stronger than him.

Heck, we don't even need to go to superheroes. Real-world gorillas are also stronger than it's possible for any 5th edition creature to be. And it's not like gorillas are even the strongest animal in the world.

Jeivar
2021-08-14, 07:44 AM
No, *that* is the absolute wrong way to look at things. If you want to represent a character within certain ruleset, he needs to fit within that ruleset.

In other words, either Spider-man has to be modified in a way that fits 5e rules, regardless of his feats from unrelated media, or he can't exist in 5e.

That's why "how would you stat [character from unrelated fiction] in 5e" threads are stupid. 5e D&D is made for 5e D&D characters, nothing else.

That is a bit like saying the X-Men would lose their powers if they entered the Terminator universe, since mutants don't exist there.


Off the top of my head, Hulk, She-Hulk, Captain Marvel, Thor, Beast, Thing, Colossus, Juggernaut, most Iron Man suits, and probably Valkyrie are all stronger than him.


Yes to most of these, but unless there's been some major upgrade I'm not aware of, then Beast is AT MOST about as strong as Spider-Man. He is almost certainly weaker.

stoutstien
2021-08-14, 07:47 AM
That is a bit like saying the X-Men would lose their powers if they entered the Terminator universe, since mutants don't exist there.
I mean they would either lose their abilities because they don't exist in such a world or the world would no longer exist because the X-Men becoming part of said world would effectively end it.

So if you would to try to put something like spiderman into 5e while still using roughly the level of abilities he has either the world's logic/rules would need to shift or his abilities would readjust accordingly. I can practically fly on a planet that has little gravity but on Terra I can't so either I need to walk or stay away.

huttj509
2021-08-14, 07:53 AM
To be fair, you could take the concept of Spider-Man, "smart guy get mutated by SCIENCE! and get superpowers, so he decides to put a mask on and to help people", and do it in 5e.


Which would probably mean... a Faceless Symic Hybrid Battle Smith Artificier.

That's what we did with a Shadowrun adventure back in college. Pick comic/anime characters and build characters in the system that can do those things. My Peter Parker had some homebrew web shooters, a smattering of low level science knowledge skills, and stat allotment to fit the concept. Vash the Stampede's character had built to basically have a MASSIVE single shot capability, and sufficient hit chance to easily take a penalty for trick shots. That sort of thing.

Unoriginal
2021-08-14, 07:59 AM
Back when 5e came out, and people were complaining about the lower power level, someone made the analogy "Some people prefer DC power levels, while some prefer Marvel", meaning that 5e was the lower-power Marvel version, and 3e was the higher-power DC version. I pointed out the same issue with Spider-Man being canonically far, far stronger than it's possible to be in 5e... and among Marvel characters, Spidey isn't even particularly noted for his strength. Off the top of my head, Hulk, She-Hulk, Captain Marvel, Thor, Beast, Thing, Colossus, Juggernaut, most Iron Man suits, and probably Valkyrie are all stronger than him.

Marvel heroes aren't on a lower power level than DC heroes by any stretch, and how strong characters are depends on the writer, context, book, continuity, etc, but there are many times where Spider-Man is portrayed as physically stronger than the Beast, the Thing, Colossus, the Juggernaut, most Iron Man suits, and most Asgardians (possibly not Thor but I'm not sure). The Hulk and She-Hulk are stronger because they have no upper limit to how strong they can get.


That is a bit like saying the X-Men would lose their powers if they entered the Terminator universe, since mutants don't exist there.

If someone did a "Marvel vs Dungeons & Dragons" crossover where both parts of the crossover kept the same power levels as their source materials, then yes Spider-Man will be incredibly stronger than any humanoid.


If someone wants to build a Spider-Man-like character in the 5e system or setting, however, then this character would have to obey the rules of the system and setting.

Kvess
2021-08-14, 08:08 AM
I’d just like to point out that superheroes in published comicbooks weren’t designed with party balance in mind. Peter Parker wasn’t created for a fantasy world where you have roving bands of 4-6 adventurers who each filled a specific role — he’s a Silver Age pulp science fiction comicbook hero.

His superstrength is precisely strong enough to do something dramatic on a splash page. His intelligence is high enough for him to tinker will interesting-looking devices. His radiation-enhanced constitution is robust enough to survive the villain’s dramatic-looking death ray. You can go down the line on his stats, and see that his raw attributes have less to do with a spider bite and more to do with rule-of-cool.

EggKookoo
2021-08-14, 10:08 AM
One way to handle superhuman strength in 5e is rather than just straight up bump the ability to "illegal" levels, give the creature various tricks for resolving acts of strength. Like, for strength checks and saves, it can treat any result less than X as X. Give it Powerful Build. Give it advantage on contested strength checks against any creature that doesn't have the same kind of boosted strength. Give it a kind of Legendary Strength, where if it fails a strength check or save, it can just choose to succeed, up to 3x/day or something. It has Brutal Critical and/or Improved/Superior Critical for attacks that use STR. Stuff like that.

Jeivar
2021-08-14, 10:12 AM
If someone did a "Marvel vs Dungeons & Dragons" crossover where both parts of the crossover kept the same power levels as their source materials, then yes Spider-Man will be incredibly stronger than any humanoid.

If someone wants to build a Spider-Man-like character in the 5e system or setting, however, then this character would have to obey the rules of the system and setting.

I guess I should have been clearer in my original post. I mean the former. Ie, what Spidey would actually be like in comparison to the people and monsters of Faerun, if a fight in a mad scientist's lab resulted in him being teleported into another dimension. Or as superheroes call it, Tuesday.

theNater
2021-08-14, 10:25 AM
And do you think anything could actually pose a threat to him?
He's got no special protection from magic, and as you note his Wis and Cha are well within standard human range, so magical effects targeting those saves(or providing no save at all) would work normally on him. Some examples:

A sufficiently large barrage of Magic Missiles kills him outright.
Imprisonment can disable him indefinitely.
He can be Polymorphed, temporarily dropping his stats to mere mortal levels.
The less said about the effects of Clone on him, the better. :smallwink:

Unoriginal
2021-08-14, 10:32 AM
He's got no special protection from magic, and as you note his Wis and Cha are well within standard human range, so magical effects targeting those saves(or providing no save at all) would work normally on him. Some examples:

A sufficiently large barrage of Magic Missiles kills him outright.
Imprisonment can disable him indefinitely.
He can be Polymorphed, temporarily dropping his stats to mere mortal levels.
The less said about the effects of Clone on him, the better. :smallwink:

Lolth would also likely be more than able to pull Madame Web-style mental meetings on him, and other nasty influences.

paladinn
2021-08-14, 12:44 PM
5e isn't the game to play if you want to play a superhero. Bounded accuracy means seriously-bounded power levels. If you want to play supers in a D&D game, you need 3e. Actually I'd recommend Silver Age Sentinels D20. It's almost Exactly what we're talking about, without some of the digressions of Mutants & Masterminds.

In SAS, Capt. America would have about a 25 STR (+7), about the same as in 3e. Spidey would have about 49 (+19). Thor would be about 66 (+28). I think a lot of these end up similar to Champions as well.

Zhorn
2021-08-14, 08:47 PM
Take just his Strength. The old number for his maximum lift weight is 10 tons, which is 20.000 pounds. In the game, maximum lift is 30 times one's Strength score. That comes out as his Strength being 666!! Absolutely nothing in the game even comes close to that. Going by the numbers, he could arm-wrestle a Storm Giant without the slightest effort. And that's on the low estimate of his full Strength.
Preface before this is I'm agreeing with JackPhoenix general comment

... If you want to represent a character within certain ruleset, he needs to fit within that ruleset.

In other words, either Spider-man has to be modified in a way that fits 5e rules, regardless of his feats from unrelated media, or he can't exist in 5e....
There are some upper limits to what Spiderman will have if statted up in 5e.
Now the Powerful Build trait is accessible to players, so that will get us a little closer if applied.
30 STR plus Powerful Build will net him a carry capacity of (30 x 15 x 2) 900 lb. and a lift capacity of (carry x 2) 1800 lb.
While not comic book levels of spidey strength, it is still firmly planted in the superhuman range.

For the folks at home that didn't do the math and want the comparison:
Storm Giant's with a STR of 29 and Huge (two size categories above medium)
Carry capacity of (29 x 15 x 2 x 2) 1740 lb.
And a lift capacity of (carry x 2) 3480 lb.

Mastikator
2021-08-14, 09:03 PM
I think rather than giving him a mega-high strength score you give him a custom ability "can lift 20k pounds over head".
And "Spidey sense: negates advantage from attacking while unseen, all attacks are with disadvantage against Spiderman. Dexterity saves are always with advantage, if a saved dexterity save would do half damage, instead do no damage".
Web shooter: can shoot spiderweb with the following effects

ranged weapon attack, hit causes restrained condition. Requires strength save to end. Can target up to 2 targets each round using both hands
as a bonus action shoot a spider web on a surface to create a rope to swing, then use his move action to move up to 90 feet
as an action can create a webbed area, a surface is created that restrains anyone who enters


I'd probably give him


Strength
29


Dexterity
29


Constitution
20


Intelligence
18


Wisdom
20


Charisma
16


Martial arts: Spider man can as an action make three attacks using his fists and legs, dealing 1d8 + 9, with a +15 to hit
Spiderclimb: Spider man always has spider climb effect
AC: 19
Initiative: +9
hitpoints: 300 (20d10 + 100)

Legendary action: (3 charges)
(2 charges) spider man can use his web attack
(1 charge) spider man can move 30 feet
(1 charge) spider man can make one melee attack
charges reset on spider man's turn


IMO don't try to "physics" the rules, D&D rules are not in-game physics, they are narrative and game mechanics tools.

Zhorn
2021-08-14, 09:16 PM
While I agree that if you want the most accurate version, homebrew is the way to go (Zee Bashew did a video in a spiderman homebrew a while back that's unfortunately now private), but adding custom features that are not present in the game and accessible to players via official means won't go over that well table-to-table.

HolyDraconus
2021-08-15, 11:43 AM
Not strictly true. Avatars of the gods, which are creatures, can't break 30. Gods aren't creatures, and don't have stat blocks. They have so far not made that mistake in this edition - giving gods stat blocks.

Tiamat was statted. It wasn't a clone. It was her. And its one of the first books too for 5e so yeah, they broke that rule pretty fast.

Follow that up with Orcus, Demogorgon, and Yeenoghu being downgraded and statted as well. Big A and Lolth are the main ones im concerned about, cause if they stat them, its over.

Unoriginal
2021-08-15, 11:47 AM
Follow that up with Orcus, Demogorgon, and Yeenoghu being downgraded and statted as well.

None of those three are gods in this edition, though.



Big A and Lolth are the main ones im concerned about, cause if they stat them, its over.

I don't get what you mean.

Kvess
2021-08-15, 12:05 PM
Tiamat was statted. It wasn't a clone. It was her. And its one of the first books too for 5e so yeah, they broke that rule pretty fast.

Follow that up with Orcus, Demogorgon, and Yeenoghu being downgraded and statted as well. Big A and Lolth are the main ones im concerned about, cause if they stat them, its over.
The players can kill Auril in Rime of the Frostmaiden.

I'm actually okay with gods being slayable. I don't love the assumption that the mayor of a town or the president of a nation is always the most powerful warrior or spellcaster in the land, or that something responsible for making reality necessarily has complete mastery over it. Why couldn't the ruler of hell himself just be the greatest wheeler and dealer of all time, with tremendous political power? Isn't that more interesting?

Unoriginal
2021-08-15, 01:23 PM
The players can kill Auril in Rime of the Frostmaiden.

Auril's physical form can be killed, but the only way to actually destroy her is to kill all her worshipers.



And like ToA and other D&D works show, even being killed and having 0 worshiper doesn't mean a god can't stay around or even make a come back.




I'm actually okay with gods being slayable. I don't love the assumption that the mayor of a town or the president of a nation is always the most powerful warrior or spellcaster in the land, or that something responsible for making reality necessarily has complete mastery over it.

There's a difference between being an emperor and being a god. DnD deities aren't just in charge of a concept, they kind of *are* that concept to a degree, and their power is proportional to how many worshipers they have.

For example, Auril is the deity of winters in the Forgotten Realms. Since everyone who has to deal with winter has to give her a bit of worship or suffer the consequences, that grants her a pretty decent amount of power, which allows her to do many things including but not limited to:



- Plunge a whole region into eternal winter night

- Empower mortals

- Sense when she's being disrespected anywhere in the region

- Summon, create or send monsters to punish people who disrespected her, even if it's miles away from her physical form

- Control how hash the winter is

- Instantly transport people to locations where they'll be tested as her heralds

- Make people unable to rest/recover while resting

And despite spending all that power still has enough for a pretty decently strong physical form.

If Auril's worshipers all got killed while she wasn't, she'd be just a shadow with a bad temper and a temperature to match.



Isn't that more interesting?

I mean, it can be just as interesting, but I don't see why it would inherently be more interesting.

Kvess
2021-08-15, 01:46 PM
I mean, it can be just as interesting, but I don't see why it would inherently be more interesting.

I personally feel that every realm, mortal or otherwise, being controlled by the biggest, baddest spellcaster/warrior is boring. Why would the incarnation of malevolent bureaucracy need to be someone who can beat The Incredible Hulk in an arm-wrestling match? What about the god of commerce? The god of beauty? It's a weird assumption that the gods need to all be unkillable juggernauts.

For what it's worth, even in Forgotten Realms lore, the gods of death and murder seem to have a high turnover rate.

EggKookoo
2021-08-15, 01:49 PM
I personally feel that every realm, mortal or otherwise, being controlled by the biggest, baddest spellcaster/warrior is boring. Why would the incarnation of malevolent bureaucracy need to be someone who can beat The Incredible Hulk in an arm-wrestling match? What about the god of commerce? The god of beauty? It's a weird assumption that the gods need to all be unkillable juggernauts.

Kind of deviating from the thread, but it depends a bit on what you consider a god to actually be. Is a god essentially a very powerful creature that has somehow just taken control of some aspect of reality? Then sure, killable at least in theory. Is a god created by an aspect of reality that is revered and worshipped by mortals? Then probably unkillable in any permanent sense, without removing those worshippers or moving their devotion to something else.

Unoriginal
2021-08-15, 02:49 PM
I personally feel that every realm, mortal or otherwise, being controlled by the biggest, baddest spellcaster/warrior is boring.

If it happens every single time, I can see why it's boring.

It makes sense that *some* authorities figures are the strongest in the land, either because they conquered it/were given it thanks to their great deeds, because the culture values strong people and as a result give them authority, because their power comes from the same source that gives their the authority (ex: Drow Matrons get both their magic and their political influence due to being favored by Lolth, and would have neither without her favor), because being powerful politically/economically allowed them access to training and ressources others wouldn't have (ex: previous king had his kid taught by the best wizard in the country, then the kid inherited the throne) or just because coincidently the person in charge had a career before (ex: a sorcerer who decided to use their charisma to get into politics).


If it happens every time it can become a joke (although less so in settings like Tolkien's, where there is inherently a direct correlation between personal power and the authority you wield)

But I don't think it works the same way to non-mortal entities who essentially are the power itself.



Why would the incarnation of malevolent bureaucracy need to be someone who can beat The Incredible Hulk in an arm-wrestling match? What about the god of commerce? The god of beauty? It's a weird assumption that the gods need to all be unkillable juggernauts.

It's not that they need to, it's mostly a consequence.

A god of commerce will get more powerful from being worshiped, and some of that power translate into capacities that are useful in a fight. A god of war with the same amount of worship will undoubtly be a better combatant than the god of commerce, but if the god of war of a 1000 people town tries to take on the god of commerce of a billion people, the god of war has no chance.

For other entities, well, beings like Devils, Demons, Elementals, etc. are all collectively personifications of an universal concept, and basically it comes down getting a bigger "share" of that concept. A Djinni Lord is more powerful than a regular Djinni because the Lord is *more* the Plane of Air than the regular Djinni.

To use a non-deity example: Titivillus is an Archdevil, and he's essentially ruling Dis while Dispater is busy with his paranoia. In a straight fight, he's much weaker than a Pit Fiend, despite his higher rank, because his considerable powers are tailored for mind-control and manipulation, and he would get stomped into the ground with little effort by pretty much any other Archdevil. That doesn't mean Titivillus would be unable to win a straight fight against a devil who is entirely combat-focused yet is much weaker overall than the Archdevil. Both that weaker devil and Titivillus are personifications of lawful malevolence and malevolent lawfulness, but Titivillus is a bigger part of that concept.




For what it's worth, even in Forgotten Realms lore, the gods of death and murder seem to have a high turnover rate.

One of my favorite bit of 5e lore is how the Yuan-ti have a path for mortals to achieve apotheosis, and from time to time one of them successfully pull it of. Meaning that the low echelons of the Yuan-ti pantheon's ladder are shifting pretty dynamically for a pantheon, since on top of semi-regular newcomers, the gods at that level are constantly squabbling for power and it's not uncommon for them to get killed and eaten by their rivals.

JackPhoenix
2021-08-15, 06:52 PM
He's got no special protection from magic, and as you note his Wis and Cha are well within standard human range, so magical effects targeting those saves(or providing no save at all) would work normally on him. Some examples:

A sufficiently large barrage of Magic Missiles kills him outright.
Imprisonment can disable him indefinitely.
He can be Polymorphed, temporarily dropping his stats to mere mortal levels.
The less said about the effects of Clone on him, the better. :smallwink:

I mean, we know he dies to a single Disintegrate....


I personally feel that every realm, mortal or otherwise, being controlled by the biggest, baddest spellcaster/warrior is boring. Why would the incarnation of malevolent bureaucracy need to be someone who can beat The Incredible Hulk in an arm-wrestling match? What about the god of commerce? The god of beauty? It's a weird assumption that the gods need to all be unkillable juggernauts.

For what it's worth, even in Forgotten Realms lore, the gods of death and murder seem to have a high turnover rate.

Historically, if we go back to Gygax' and Arneson's times, because if they aren't the baddest parentfornicators around, someone who is will show up to beat them up and replace them. Conan, after all, got to be the king of Aquilonia because he decided he wanted the throne, and there was nobody capable of stopping him. And he's a much bigger inspiration for early D&D than any of Tolkien's characters.

Unoriginal
2021-08-15, 08:59 PM
Historically, if we go back to Gygax' and Arneson's times, because if they aren't the baddest parentfornicators around, someone who is will show up to beat them up and replace them. Conan, after all, got to be the king of Aquilonia because he decided he wanted the throne, and there was nobody capable of stopping him. And he's a much bigger inspiration for early D&D than any of Tolkien's characters.

Not wrong, although strictly speaking him getting Aquilonia's crown was more a question of him getting very popular while the king of the time was a monstrous tyrant who pissed off basically everyone. As much of a badass Conan is, he couldn't have beaten everyone into submission if his Aquilonian allies had turned on him once the coup was a success.

Now Conan *keeping* the crown (and/or the head to wear it) is definitively due to him being the most badass thing around.

TheMango55
2021-08-15, 09:14 PM
One important thing to note that hasn’t been mentioned yet is Spider-Man is under the effect of a permanent Foresight spell.

BerzerkerUnit
2021-08-15, 10:45 PM
For the OP: Do you want to try and model Spidey and all his comic nonsense in Dnd rules or do you want a functional character that plays like Spidey.

If former, good luck, if latter, here you go:

A Playable Spider-Man (https://ddb.ac/characters/56385164/S3hhe9)for 5e.

For those not wanting to take the link or that can't use D&D Beyond.

I decided to accept an amalgam of different eras Spider-Man including his earliest appearances and wild changes like Big Time and Superior. For that we have the following points buy:

8, 13, 14,14, 14, 8, in that order. Rationale:
STR was nothing special till "powers"- all powers will be the result of spells, equipment, or class features.

DEX is above average but the mechanical effects will be replicated with Proficiency and equipment (in DnD there is no mechanical difference between a Dexterity or Equipment based AC, roll under the number and it's a miss).

CON even as puny parker he could take a beating. He also survived a Radioactive Spider Bite.

INT invented his own equipment, alt reality versions have been billionaires and highly successful serial killers. This will also cover some bases with the Flash of Genius feature.

WIS since Spider Sense is hard to model if you can't find your way out of a paper bag, this got a bump as well.

CHA Spidey's enemies might respect him, but they also Haaaaate him. He has one rogue known for staying on job when he shows up while all the rest stop robbing the bank or escaping to instead "kill Spider-Man." His relationships almost always blow up in his face spectacularly. He was shot down by the F4, Avengers, and is routinely treated like comic relief by friends. Like half of his rogues don't even really do other crimes, they only show up to Kill Spider-Man TM. This is a dump stat.

Ancestry: Custom Lineage "Human Mutate" +2 Int, Athletics, Alertness feat (does most of our heavy lifting for Spider-Sense and reflexes).

Background: I took Folk Hero (can't readily swap out the Vehicle proficiency, I did gave him Weaver's Tools for making his own costume. I know Spidey can't drive despite the existence of the Spider-Buggy), but really Criminal, Sage/Scholar, or Hermit can all work. Pirate isn't bad either if you can ditch the water vehicles or Bounty Hunter is okay.

Class: Artificer Armorer 10 (I stopped here since most campaigns do BUT the character is Flavor Functional at level 3 (Spider Climb, Enhance Ability, Web and Thornwhip complete the illusion).

This also gives us 2 ASIs, I took Fighting Initiate Blind Fighting @ 4 since Spider-Sense is supposed to be advanced enough to allow him to fight invisible opponents with relative ease. If you want to take See Invisible as a spell at 5th (though your 2nd level slots are already cramped for all spider powers), you might choose Unarmed Style instead, but that's actually a downgrade since your Str is bad and your Int can only be used for attacks with the Armor gauntlets or gems.

Bumped Int at 8th to 18.

Subclass feature choices for powers:
3rd level: Infiltrator option grants advantage to Stealth, so you'll succeed more often than not, but a guy in Red and Blue spandex isn't focused on it. "Taser Web Shooters" (like from the Movies!) and it can be worn under normal clothes (that's major thematic schtick).

the Armor of Magical Strength (from level 2) and Enhance Ability Spell will get you by. At 7th you get Flash of Genius as well, With all those up you're considered large so for lift, carry, drag, your Str is effectively 16 (add proficiency in athletics to the Str score for some benefit to being trained, that would roll it to 19). However, feats of strength usually require a check instead of raw numbers and for one of those you Roll with advantage and have a +10 at 8th level.

You want a suit of Platemail ASAP, until then I'd use Mirror Image for all its worth. Spidey's ability to make foes feel like he's everywhere and all the "after images" in his comic panels make this pretty good at modeling it.

Helm of Alertness is Advantage on Initiative checks, so you're not likely to go last, and pretty likely to go first. You can flash of Genius that too.

3rd level slots can be used to cast Aid, increasing your own toughness and reflecting how your good cheer helps allies fight on when they'd normally be through.

At 10, Guantlets of Ogre Power come online with Slippers of Spider Climbing which can both be integrated into the Armor. You have to make do with spells or momentary buffs till then, but it's rare continuous strength checks of 20+ are required for anything.

Dex is only 13 bc Infusions, Feats, and Heavy Armor do the work (subclass allows us to ignore Str requirement).

In addition to Alertness there's the Helm of Alertness which gives Advantage on Initiative. Knowing this is waiting at level 2 might make it worth dumping the Alertness feat for something you like better. I think there are maybe 3-4 creatures resistant to lightning damage, can't imagine Elemental Adept is worth it here.

Witty Username
2021-08-15, 11:24 PM
Well we got
Shoot web
Unarmed fighting
High str and good athletics
Supernatural Senses

I think ranger is a good base,
Thrown weapons plus entangling strike for shoot web (I would use darts).
We want expertise in athletics, and perception so 2 levels in rogue is probably called for. Unarmed fighting style and maybe a level in monk for unarmored defense.
And we will be more MAD then Venom.

BerzerkerUnit
2021-08-16, 08:37 PM
Well we got
Shoot web
Unarmed fighting
High str and good athletics
Supernatural Senses

I think ranger is a good base,
Thrown weapons plus entangling strike for shoot web (I would use darts).
We want expertise in athletics, and perception so 2 levels in rogue is probably called for. Unarmed fighting style and maybe a level in monk for unarmored defense.
And we will be more MAD then Venom.

Here’s a Venom. It doesn’t have to be MAD, but I went for form over function. All in all I think it could bump it down to 3 levels of warlock but I think the end result is Barb 9/Lock 11 for the 2d8 tentacles, a 6th level spell and 3rd slot for Armor of Agathys or Bigby’s.

https://ddb.ac/characters/56437068/iBWazI