Edition Anxiety: When Will All My Cool Builds be Useless?

[aadder]

Hello everyone,

Does anyone else get edition anxiety?

I've come to really love 5th, especially because i've finally found a very complex build to portray a fictional character I love. Unfortunately, it relies on a lot of subclass mechanics that are pretty specific, and that means that when 6th comes out, that character dies. That makes me, understandably, very upset.

Does anyone else feel that way, that each future edition is like a looming threat to your pet builds?

[JNAProductions]

Hello everyone,

Does anyone else get edition anxiety?

I've come to really love 5th, especially because i've finally found a very complex build to portray a fictional character I love. Unfortunately, it relies on a lot of subclass mechanics that are pretty specific, and that means that when 6th comes out, that character dies. That makes me, understandably, very upset.

Does anyone else feel that way, that each future edition is like a looming threat to your pet builds?

Just keep playing 5th. Even if 6th edition came out tomorrow... No one is going to confiscate your books. No one is going to break your door down for playing an older edition. You can just... Play 5th.

[nickl_2000]

Just keep playing 5th. Even if 6th edition came out tomorrow... No one is going to confiscate your books. No one is going to break your door down for playing an older edition. You can just... Play 5th.

*Blue* I plan on doing exactly that. I will also be stealing this person's favorite and hottest die.*/blue* (sorry, on a mobile)

Seriously, there are many people playing 3.5 still and it's been how long since 4e came out?

[Naanomi]

Seriously, there are many people playing 3.5 still and it's been how long since 4e came out?
I mean... All the people playing Pathfinder are functionally playing 3.51 right?

[Zhorn]

Plus WotC is still ramping up production of 5e with more content coming out each year.
People talk a lot about a hypothetical 6e on the forums, but that's not insider knowledge, it's just an umbrella topic for discussing possible changes some folks would like in the future.
We're going to have 5e stick around for a looooong while.
So long as 5e holds such a large sway over the total sales of D&D-esque properties, there's little reason to move on to 6e.

[ProsecutorGodot]

To take this from another angle, I'm sure that when 6e does come out it will have enough support as a default to allow you to emulate many/most fictional characters using the existing classes and subclasses, and if it doesn't it will in the future.

The builds you have for 5e will never be useless, because they are builds for 5e and you have at least a handful of years to enjoy them and assuming you can find a group past the end of 5e's publication (pretty likely imo) even longer than that.

[8wGremlin]

I've played since the beginning, and it's something I have to deal with every single time.
Yes you'll be able to continue to play, but the older edition games will become harder and harder to find. You'll have less and less forums that cater for your needs.

I've lost so may build, theoretical optimised builds etc, my advice copy everything you want to google drives, do them as docs, pdf, spreadsheets anything, but keep them under your control, and you won't lose them.

So other things, the way back when machine website is your friend.
You don't need to keep buying settings books, they don't tend to differ that much, or just build your own worlds and cherry pick what you need.

and yes, i still feel the Edition Anxiety, but embrace the change, hopefully it is for the better, KAIZEN - change for the better.

[Elves]

D&D revenue is still growing, won't be a new edition until it plateaus. They're ramping up content production so we are in a new phase of the edition's lifespan, but you can expect this to go on for a while, then be followed by a .5/essentials, then if nothing else by a playtesting phase. No way there's less than 4 years left.

[Dork_Forge]

With the ever growing audience and streaming thing, I can't see it changing editions anytime in the near future. I wouldn't be surprised if 5e went 15+ years.

Speculation: From what I understand 2e was basically mostly 1e, and you could use stuff from 1e. If/when 6e comes I wouldn't be surprised if it was built from the ground up with backwards compatability in mind.

[J-H]

I think we're more likely to get 5.5 (whether wanted or not) as a continued extension of the Tasha's changes and stuff. I'll probably take what I like from 5.5 and stick with 5e (different species have different biology and that makes more sense and has more interesting choices).

[P. G. Macer]

To add on to the general consensus here, according to Wizards of the Coast’s research, 5e is easily the most popular—and profitable—edition of D&D ever, by a pretty decisive margin apparently. And if there’s one thing the suits at Hasbro want, it’s profits. They aren’t going to kill the goose laying the golden eggs*. They’re going to milk 5e for all it’s worth, so I’d say we at least have half a decade more of 5e, unless there’s a sudden dip or plateau in sales. I’ve heard it argued pretty persuasively (IMHO) that we’re due for a 5.5e update “semi-edition” from a game design perspective, but from a business perspective to do so would be foolish, as the need** to buy new versions of the core books could turn off many nascent D&D fans from the brand.

*Relatively speaking; Magic: The Gathering’s profits vastly exceed D&D’s from what I understand, but 5e is very lucrative still compared to prior editions.
**“Need” being used loosely here; there’s nothing stopping people from continuing to use 5.0 in the event of a 5.5 except peer pressure and fear of missing out.

[Zevox]

Hello everyone,

Does anyone else get edition anxiety?

I've come to really love 5th, especially because i've finally found a very complex build to portray a fictional character I love. Unfortunately, it relies on a lot of subclass mechanics that are pretty specific, and that means that when 6th comes out, that character dies. That makes me, understandably, very upset.

Does anyone else feel that way, that each future edition is like a looming threat to your pet builds?
That would require me to have "pet builds" in the first place, which I don't. I have subclasses I want to play at some point, but I can already tell I'll never get to all of them, due to the pace at which my group plays. (I've played only four different characters since 5E came out, and only been the DM for a few brief, short adventures in that time period, only one of which lasted longer than a month in real-time, and that only barely.)

That said, as others have said, a new edition doesn't worry me either. At this time, I have no interest in one, so if it did come, unless the rest of my group was gung-ho about moving to it, I'd just shrug my shoulders and keep playing 5E. And I don't see any reason to believe one is coming anytime soon, either.

[JonBeowulf]

I've played everything from OD&D through 5th edition. This is the last... I'm not playing whatever comes next. Unless it's free. I'll play if they give me the books.

I've designed several cool builds over the decades and I have no remorse about not playing most of them. I think building them is more fun than playing them. (Because they function perfectly in my theorycraft whiteroom.)

[aadder]

To take this from another angle, I'm sure that when 6e does come out it will have enough support as a default to allow you to emulate many/most fictional characters using the existing classes and subclasses, and if it doesn't it will in the future.


For most builds yes, eventually. But this build is 3 classes jammed together with very particular subclasses. Imagine if like you combined a Phantom Rogue with a Spore Druid and an Artillerist Artificer, 3 classes with very specific, hard-to-replicate abilities.

But I take your points, I guess it won't happen too soon.

[Toadkiller]

Go read about the Gulf Stream. Nothing about a tabletop game will seem like a big deal anymore.

But yeah, I have perfectly playable game system materials from 30 years ago. You can play 5e as long as you want. It’s all good!

[False God]

While the dark minions of WotC are at it, they'll also burn all your books, break all your minis, and delete all your backup data and scour the intenet of all information pertaining to now the edition that cannot be named.

Thus you will be left with no choice but to buy all their products, spin-offs, tie-ins and poorly pre-painted minis only now in NEW 6E packaging!!!

----


Okay but seriously just keep playing the edition you enjoy.

That's what all us 4E fans did.

[aadder]

Just keep playing 5th. Even if 6th edition came out tomorrow... No one is going to confiscate your books. No one is going to break your door down for playing an older edition. You can just... Play 5th.

Academically I know that, but a big part of what I enjoy doing is making builds and sharing them. If I didn't suck so hard I'd share a lot more. 5th ending means all my great builds that I worked really hard on would be of no interest to a lot of people, and less and less over time.

[Zhorn]

... 5th ending ...
This part here is probably the part you need come to terms with in your own perspective.
Not us telling you what to think, but you to sort out the thoughts as to why it is causing you anxiety.

What's making you think 5e is ending any time soon?
Who is telling you 5e is ending?

Sure, nothing lasts forever, but it does sound like there's some external thing whispering into your ear and driving this anxious feeling.

[Mork]

Academically I know that, but a big part of what I enjoy doing is making builds and sharing them. If I didn't suck so hard I'd share a lot more. 5th ending means all my great builds that I worked really hard on would be of no interest to a lot of people, and less and less over time.

Even if a 6th edition would come, no reason why people would stop playing 5e. Not only are there plenty of people still playing 3.5, the fora on this very website about 3.5 are still alive and active.

To parrot the opinion of Matt Colville, who played every edition of DnD, and worked in the TTRPG community for quite some time: 6th edition will come when Disney buys Hasbro. All this remaking of games usually comes from new directors wanting to put their own stamp on the compagny license.

[aadder]

What's making you think 5e is ending any time soon?
Who is telling you 5e is ending?


Honestly it's just pretty old. We just hit 7 years. In my experience playing Warhammer since 3rd and dnd starting with 4e, editions don't typically last much longer than that. How much more can they possibly add? They've got at least 7 different subclasses for each class and they're starting to bleed into one-another pretty heavily. It just seems like there's a finite amount of stuff they can add before they get bored with the earlier parts of the edition and feel the need to redo it.

Tasha's breathed a lot of life into the original PHB, but my understanding is that a lot of people hate Tasha's and don't consider it canon, so who knows how long that will buy them. I don't want it to end but it seems pretty close to me.

[Zhorn]

Honestly it's just pretty old. We just hit 7 years. In my experience playing Warhammer since 3rd and dnd starting with 4e, editions don't typically last much longer than that. How much more can they possibly add? They've got at least 7 different subclasses for each class and they're starting to bleed into one-another pretty heavily. It just seems like there's a finite amount of stuff they can add before they get bored with the earlier parts of the edition and feel the need to redo it.

Tasha's breathed a lot of life into the original PHB, but my understanding is that a lot of people hate Tasha's and don't consider it canon, so who knows how long that will buy them. I don't want it to end but it seems pretty close to me.
New editions are not done because the company is 'bored' with them. They come out when the company is not making a worth while profit off the current product.
4e was released because 3.5e's market presence was decreasing and had been for a few years before they made the jump.
4e didn't take off and stagnated for most of its life, leading to it's abandonment in favour of 5e. Again, it was a few years of underperforming before a transition took place.

Now as far as Tasha's, that didn't breath new life into the edition, it didn't need to. 5e was going VERY strong before it came out and continued to do so afterwards. Market growth has been on an upward streak 7 years in a row, and the number of books (supplements and modules) being released each year has grown noticeably in the past couple of years in particular. D&D profits for last couple of years alone; 2019-2020 was up +35%, and 2020-2021 was up another +24% (very significant since lockdowns were making in person gatherings to play more difficult), with Q2 reports for WotC saying they have double profits in that quarter than what they have during the same time the year before.

Numbers will have to start tanking HARD for WotC to start dedicating any serious resources into 6e. Like so hard that it would have to convince them that the edition as a whole could not be saved.
Now post-Tasha's there's a possibility of a 5.5e on the distant-distant-horizon, but even that is unlikely to invalidate much of 5e as the core system is pretty solid and it would be a bad business move to do anything to invalidate 5e with how accessible and successful it has been in bringing in so many new players.

Anxiety sucks, I get that and you have my deepest sympathies on that front. But sometimes it's all just in our heads and has nothing to be founded on. hence my earlier comment on looking inwards and finding where this anxiety is coming from, because externally evidence is pointing to 5e living for a long time yet.

[Kane0]

It doesnt matter. Some day i'll perfect my own cobbled together homebrew system that I can use forevermore, all on my own with whatever poor souls I can strap into a chair.

*Maniacal laughter*

Edit: in fact; the more editions the better! Anything released is just fodder my mighty Ctrl + C / Ctrl + V combo!

[Zhorn]

It doesnt matter. Some day i'll perfect my own cobbled together homebrew system that I can use forevermore, all on my own with whatever poor souls I can strap into a chair.

*Maniacal laughter*

Edit: in fact; the more editions the better! Anything released is just fodder my mighty Ctrl + C / Ctrl + V combo!

I for one welcome our future "Kane0s and Kennawhats" overlord system

[Xervous]

It doesnt matter. Some day i'll perfect my own cobbled together homebrew system that I can use forevermore, all on my own with whatever poor souls I can strap into a chair.

*Maniacal laughter*

Edit: in fact; the more editions the better! Anything released is just fodder my mighty Ctrl + C / Ctrl + V combo!

I hope you don’t have the same headaches I’m dealing with.

Player: “I think that line of effect shouldn’t be in the game “
Me: “so can I fireball through the wall or not?”
Player: “GM will decide”
Me: “for every ability?”
Player: “yes”

But on topic. People play AD&D still. The one thing you might have lamented in prior years was a loss of interest among potential players but with the reach of the Internet even obscure games are flourishing. And trust me, 5e is not going to be obscure anywhere inside of 20 years.

[Willie the Duck]

And if there’s one thing the suits at Hasbro want, it’s profits. They aren’t going to kill the goose laying the golden eggs*. They’re going to milk 5e for all it’s worth, so I’d say we at least have half a decade more of 5e, unless there’s a sudden dip or plateau in sales.
That's right, they're going to keep milking those geese for all they got. Er, hold on...:smalltongue:


For most builds yes, eventually. But this build is 3 classes jammed together with very particular subclasses. Imagine if like you combined a Phantom Rogue with a Spore Druid and an Artillerist Artificer, 3 classes with very specific, hard-to-replicate abilities.
Have you considered branching out into other RPGs? There's nothing in that build that can't be replicated in Hero System, Savage Worlds, Mutants and Masterminds, Fate, etc...


Honestly it's just pretty old. We just hit 7 years. In my experience playing Warhammer since 3rd and dnd starting with 4e, editions don't typically last much longer than that.
If you cherry pick examples which match your anxieties, of course you will reinforce them. As counter examples, BECMI edition D&D and 1st and 2nd edition AD&Ds all lasted about 12 years each. GURPS 3rd edition lasted 16 years. Call of Cthulhu has technically had 7 editions, but the rules have stayed remarkably the same for 40 years (such that a 1st edition character and a 6th, if not 7th, edition character would be hard to distinguish).

My main point is that there's no script for this. No 'how it works.' Each tabletop war- or role-playing- game and each edition has had a different market situation, different financial setup, different corporate environment, and different set of buyer expectations.


Tasha's breathed a lot of life into the original PHB, but my understanding is that a lot of people hate Tasha's and don't consider it canon, so who knows how long that will buy them. I don't want it to end but it seems pretty close to me.

First and foremost, a lot of very opinionated obsess-over-every-facet and love-it-until-they-hate-it superfans on the intar-webs hate it. Whether the general D&D buying population love it, hate it, or consider it just another gamebook is something we really don't know. Regardless to that, I don't think a single character option book which fans may or may not love or hate is a strong indicator of an editions longevity. Both editions of AD&D had a set of books (Unearthed Arcana, Wilderness Survival Guide, and Dungeoneers Survival Guide for AD&D; the 'Player's Options:_____' series for 2nd Edition) come out vaguely in the middle of their lifespan. In both cases they were hit-or-miss with the player base, with plenty of people saying they didn't like them, didn't get them, or bought them but then practically never used them. However, also in both cases, there isn't much strong evidence that they had a significant impact (one way or another) on the longevity of the editions (excepting that their revenue kept the lights on at TSR, so I suppose they stopped the editions from collapsing along with the company).

[KorvinStarmast]

No one is going to confiscate your books. No one is going to break your door down for playing an older edition. You can just... Play 5th. Or plead the fifth, if they catch you playing an old edition. :smallbiggrin:

So long as 5e holds such a large sway over the total sales of D&D-esque properties, there's little reason to move on to 6e. Money talks, and rubbish walks.

D&D revenue is still growing, won't be a new edition until it plateaus. No way there's less than 4 years left. That's the way I am betting.

Speculation: From what I understand 2e was basically mostly 1e, and you could use stuff from 1e. Yes, at least in core. Players Option created something like 2.5e but I didn't get that far into buying 2e stuff, life was changing at the time.

Thus you will be left with no choice but to buy all their products, spin-offs, tie-ins and poorly pre-painted minis only now in NEW 6E packaging! And you'll only be able to by rules in booster packs (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0049.html).

People play AD&D still. I have a friend who lives near the Twin Cities. We started D&Ding together in the late 1970's, AD&D, during our university years (where we met). He still plays, basically, AD&D 1e (plus his own mods and hacks) to this day.

[Kvess]

The only thing anyone currently knows about upcoming editions is they will probably also be called Dungeons & Dragons. It hasn’t been announced, there haven’t been public playtests, we don’t know when it might be released — my guess is sometime after revenue from 5e begins tapering off.

My advice is don’t worry about switching over until you have a reason to switch over. If you don’t know anything about the mechanics or design philosophy of 6e, you don’t have a reason to switch over.

[Witty Username]

I plan on doing exactly that. I will also be stealing this person's favorite and hottest die.
Seriously, there are many people playing 3.5 still and it's been how long since 4e came out?

I Coming in with the assist.