Hexjurer - Hexblade & Abjurer combination

[Ir0ns0ul]

The Hexvoker or Nuclear Wizard ( https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=23998967&postcount=170), brilliantly crafted by master Ludic, is one of the most effective and powerful “aggressive” Wizard builds out there. Hexblade and Evoker are like spaghetti and cheese.

I was wondering about a similar interaction, taking advantage of the same capabilities, but through the tankiness provided by Abjurers.

The main combination would be Armor of Agathys (always upcasted) + Arcane Ward. Huge pool of protection generated with THP and the Ward with great retributive damage on top! You’ll still be able to do all the NW & God Wizard shenanigans, perhaps not so well, but enemies would regret big time whenever they hit you at melee and eat 15 from AoA upcasted + 2d8 from Fire Shield + 2d10/half from Hellish Rebuke. And then you just finish one of them with Hexblade Curse + Magic Missile for guaranteed reliable damage (36 avg with a level 4 spell slot). I’m just worried about Action economy and setup.

Have you guys tested this concept? Would Evoker synergize better with Hexblade nevertheless? Tell me your vision!

(PS: AoA + Arcane Ward can be fully accomplished by going Mark of Warding Dwarf, just as a sidenote).

[heavyfuel]

It's a well-known combo, especially with the Armor of Shadows invocation allowing you to heal your ward between every fight.

Post-Tasha's you don't even need Warlock, as you can pick Armor of Shadows through a feat.

One of my current characters is a V.Human Abjurer that picked the feat at level 1, and as early as level 2 (the level we started at) he was the party's tank and crowd-controller. I thought about dipping Cleric 1 for Shield and Med. Armor Proficiency, but decided the delayed spell progression plus lower Ward HP wasn't worth the +3 AC, especially since every HP the Ward has is refreshed every fight.

I went for Int first and Dex second. You don't even need a good Con score since damage done to the Ward doesn't force Concentration saves (although I still went for a 12 Con)

[Chronos]

I thought about dipping Cleric 1 for Shield and Med. Armor Proficiency...
You can actually get heavy armor proficiency from a 1-level cleric dip, since that's a subclass feature (which you get all of from multiclassing), not a class starting proficiency, even though you get it at level 1.

[DarknessEternal]

Why would enemies ever attack you when it's going to kill them/they do no damage, when they have all your juicy partymates to kill instead?

[heavyfuel]

You can actually get heavy armor proficiency from a 1-level cleric dip, since that's a subclass feature (which you get all of from multiclassing), not a class starting proficiency, even though you get it at level 1.

Yeah, but then I'd need 15 Str. Plus, I'd have lower Initiative, which sucks for a Controller

[Sception]

Why would enemies ever attack you when it's going to kill them/they do no damage, when they have all your juicy partymates to kill instead?

I mean, you're the wizard. Your concentration will often be maintaining spells that win entire fights, like web, hypnotic pattern, black tentacles, and wall of force. If the enemy /isn't/ targeting you, there's a good chance they're losing anyway.

But even beyond that, I mean, you're the /wizard/. The wizard is, at least theoretically, the squishiest party member. The one that the usual party tanks are tanking /for/. If an enemy is targeting the fighter, barbarian, or paladin instead of you then, again, there's a good chance they're losing anyway.

Granted, if your party has like a rogue or monk or sorcerer or non-hex-warlock or non-sword/valor-bard then enemies choosing to attack someone other than you could actually be a problem, but the same aoe concentration control spells that make you a prime target can also often be used to prevent enemies from attacking anyone at all, and other classes have their own defensive options they could take advantage of (rogues can fight at range and re-hide each round with a bonus action, rangers can fight at range and are usually pretty tough by default, clerics have subclass options for extra armor proficiencies and are always in range of their own healing and buffing effects, bards and warlocks have defensive spell options and can pick up armor and shield proficiencies via subclass choice, monks can burn ki to dodge as a bonus action, etc).

[Ir0ns0ul]

Why would enemies ever attack you when it's going to kill them/they do no damage, when they have all your juicy partymates to kill instead?

At first glance, you should appear as the most squishy person since you are The Wizard, as Malisteen said. After some rounds enemies could simply ignore you, which is fine.

[Chronos]

Yeah, a party is only as tough as its squishiest member, so increasing the survivability of one individual doesn't matter unless it's the squishiest individual... but in this case, it is.

[stoutstien]

Why would enemies ever attack you when it's going to kill them/they do no damage, when they have all your juicy partymates to kill instead?

Then you still win because most likely you are having a direct role in inhibiting the enemy's progression. Not likr wizards are all that soft of a target to begin with as cheap as armor prof are and the ability to drop a spell and avoid the bulk of direct confrontations.

[DarknessEternal]

You guys are far down the slippery slope/circular reasoning.

Your contention is that a fight is an automatic win if the wizard doesn't get attacked because they'll be maintaining some awesome control spell that prevents everyone else on his team from being attacked. Yet your claim is also that this awesome control spell can't also protect the casting wizard, so he needs to be hard to damage.

Why wouldn't this awesome control spell be protecting the wizard? And if it can, the wizard is invincible by your awesome control spell.

Nothing you are saying contains any sound logic.

[stoutstien]

You guys are far down the slippery slope/circular reasoning.

Your contention is that a fight is an automatic win if the wizard doesn't get attacked because they'll be maintaining some awesome control spell that prevents everyone else on his team from being attacked. Yet your claim is also that this awesome control spell can't also protect the casting wizard, so he needs to be hard to damage.

Why wouldn't this awesome control spell be protecting the wizard? And if it can, the wizard is invincible by your awesome control spell.

Nothing you are saying contains any sound logic.

It's called redundancy. Mitigation works in layers so the more you stack them the better they function and the more layers you have the less likely that the removal of a single one will cause of loss of control of the momentum of a challenge.

If a wizard is concentrating on a spell that is effectively cutting an encounter in half then they've effectively reduced the challenge in half if not more thanks to the way the action economy works. As long as they maintain concentration they are "tanking" everything that is on the other side plus anything directed at the wizard in the attempt to bring down that wall.

[DarknessEternal]

It's called redundancy. Mitigation works in layers so the more you stack them the better they function and the more layers you have the less likely that the removal of a single one will cause of loss of control of the momentum of a challenge.

If a wizard is concentrating on a spell that is effectively cutting an encounter in half then they've effectively reduced the challenge in half if not more thanks to the way the action economy works. As long as they maintain concentration they are "tanking" everything that is on the other side plus anything directed at the wizard in the attempt to bring down that wall.

Where's the redundancy on control? OP is spending the first 3 rounds of combat casting shields.

[stoutstien]

Where's the redundancy on control? OP is spending the first 3 rounds of combat casting shields.
AoA lasts an hour and fire shield lasts 10 minutes if you wanted to stack that on as well. One would rarely need to spend an action in an encounter to do anything but renew them.
Nothing about the build requires using those spell either so as long as you are feedings the ward you already have a decent pool of easy to replace super HP. thanks to a certain invocation that is a breeze.

Overall the evoker/hexblade is still a more effective build but abjuration adds some personal protection to the mix alongside some enhanced CS/dispel magic if that's important to someone.

[Witty Username]

Why would enemies ever attack you when it's going to kill them/they do no damage, when they have all your juicy partymates to kill instead?

Warcaster + Booming Blade?


I mean, you're the wizard. Your concentration will often be maintaining spells that win entire fights, like web, hypnotic pattern, black tentacles, and wall of force. If the enemy /isn't/ targeting you, there's a good chance they're losing anyway.
Ooh, wall of force for a cage match Rorschach style, I'm not locked in here with you style.