Mitchellnotes
2021-08-15, 11:19 AM
I'm interested in exploring what goes in to how people assess how effective different spells are. All casters are limited in terms of how many spells they can learn/prepare, so to a certain extent all casters do some sort of version of this. While there are well known guides that are out there, it also is apparant that not everyone agrees with how the authors of those guides assess spells.
Please note, this thread is NOT meant as a referendum on any specific community members advice, nor is it intended as a place to surface complaints about others. I would appreciate if we framed conversations around the criteria that goes into your own analysis, not disputing the criteria of others.
This analysis could be based on how we look at spells in general or how classes may view this choice differently. For instance, warlocks are likely going to be more interested in how a spell scales up to level 5, sorcerers are less concerned about spells that are only going to target 1 individual, wizards may be more interested in rituals, etc.
I'll share some of my general thoughts to start. So things i look for when looking at spells:
1) spells to counter specific threats if i know what they are and my character knows their capabilities. Making sure to have counterspell/dispel magic prepped vs. mages, a rakshasa or beholder will likely call for specific types of spells, etc
2) spells that are guarenteed to have an effect. Wall of force being a common example of this, but also things like conjure animals, tasha's summons, plant growth/transmute rock, etc
3) versatile spells. Basically a spell that you can do a lot with. Wish being the most powerful example of this, but also something like otiluke's sphere in that it can be defensively or offensively, or the additional options provided by find steed or find familiar
4) spells that have ongoing effects. These can be things that provide more than one opportunity to have an effect (web/evard's black tentacles/storm sphere/spirit guardians) or spells that provide an option turn by turn (sunbeam/eyebite/storm sphere)
5) spells that target weaker saves- i tend to look for int -> dex -> wis and try to avoid con saves. Str saves are interesting bc enemies tend to have either really high str saves or really low saves. Cha is similar except that higher CR enemies tend to have high cha saves, eo can be really good early on and then taper off. I also preference checks over saves (like telekinesis)
6) when and what happens on a save, taking into account things like fireball still doing damage on a save, or slow providing a save at the end of turn vs. hypnotic pattern not providing any additional saves
Edit: Forgot to include that rituals are great because you may not have to spend spell slots to use them (or even prepare them to use them), and spells that don't require concentration are also more valuable. Grease, plant growth, and transmute rock all have ok effects, but bc they don't require concentration, those spells become a whole lot more valuable
So as an example of this, comparing 3 3rd level spells - summon shadowspawn, slow, and hypnotic pattern.
-All 3 have elements that key off of a wisdom save (the shadowspawns fear)
-All 3 having the ability to impact multiple enemies, and all 3 causing a debuff.
-Slow and shadowspawns ability allow saves at the end of each turn, and both cause debuffs that don't completely take an enemy out of the fight.
-Slow isn't "typed" so is more broadly useful (pattern is a charm, shadowspawn a fear), and slow can be used without worry of friendly fire.
-Shadowspawn provides an ally even if the fear effect fails
-Hypnotic pattern can completely take a number of enemies out of the fight, but isn't as useful against 1 foe
They are all good spells, but I would likely go with the shadowspawn since you always get an effect, but it has the ability to possibly provide some of what the others do
What do others take into considerstion with spell choices?
Please note, this thread is NOT meant as a referendum on any specific community members advice, nor is it intended as a place to surface complaints about others. I would appreciate if we framed conversations around the criteria that goes into your own analysis, not disputing the criteria of others.
This analysis could be based on how we look at spells in general or how classes may view this choice differently. For instance, warlocks are likely going to be more interested in how a spell scales up to level 5, sorcerers are less concerned about spells that are only going to target 1 individual, wizards may be more interested in rituals, etc.
I'll share some of my general thoughts to start. So things i look for when looking at spells:
1) spells to counter specific threats if i know what they are and my character knows their capabilities. Making sure to have counterspell/dispel magic prepped vs. mages, a rakshasa or beholder will likely call for specific types of spells, etc
2) spells that are guarenteed to have an effect. Wall of force being a common example of this, but also things like conjure animals, tasha's summons, plant growth/transmute rock, etc
3) versatile spells. Basically a spell that you can do a lot with. Wish being the most powerful example of this, but also something like otiluke's sphere in that it can be defensively or offensively, or the additional options provided by find steed or find familiar
4) spells that have ongoing effects. These can be things that provide more than one opportunity to have an effect (web/evard's black tentacles/storm sphere/spirit guardians) or spells that provide an option turn by turn (sunbeam/eyebite/storm sphere)
5) spells that target weaker saves- i tend to look for int -> dex -> wis and try to avoid con saves. Str saves are interesting bc enemies tend to have either really high str saves or really low saves. Cha is similar except that higher CR enemies tend to have high cha saves, eo can be really good early on and then taper off. I also preference checks over saves (like telekinesis)
6) when and what happens on a save, taking into account things like fireball still doing damage on a save, or slow providing a save at the end of turn vs. hypnotic pattern not providing any additional saves
Edit: Forgot to include that rituals are great because you may not have to spend spell slots to use them (or even prepare them to use them), and spells that don't require concentration are also more valuable. Grease, plant growth, and transmute rock all have ok effects, but bc they don't require concentration, those spells become a whole lot more valuable
So as an example of this, comparing 3 3rd level spells - summon shadowspawn, slow, and hypnotic pattern.
-All 3 have elements that key off of a wisdom save (the shadowspawns fear)
-All 3 having the ability to impact multiple enemies, and all 3 causing a debuff.
-Slow and shadowspawns ability allow saves at the end of each turn, and both cause debuffs that don't completely take an enemy out of the fight.
-Slow isn't "typed" so is more broadly useful (pattern is a charm, shadowspawn a fear), and slow can be used without worry of friendly fire.
-Shadowspawn provides an ally even if the fear effect fails
-Hypnotic pattern can completely take a number of enemies out of the fight, but isn't as useful against 1 foe
They are all good spells, but I would likely go with the shadowspawn since you always get an effect, but it has the ability to possibly provide some of what the others do
What do others take into considerstion with spell choices?