Best level for bard to dip into hexblade?

[Thoughtcandle]

Hey everyone, hope you’re well.

Starting a level 1 campaign playing MOST LIKELY a lore bard (not opposed to sword or valor, but lore just seems better overall) and looking to dip into hexblade warlock for story reasons + better viability in combat to round out the party.

Let’s assume I have to start bard, because I know people recommend hex 2/bard x.

Looks like the general consensus is either bard 1/hex 2/bard x OR bard 5-6/hex 2/bard x

If anyone can give me some solid input, it would be much appreciated - thank you!

Rest of party is barbarian (not sure subclass), moon druid, arcane trickster rogue, and life cleric

[Bobthewizard]

Bard 1, Hex 1 for med. armor, shield and EB, then Bard X. I'm not sure Warlock 2 is worth it anymore for a Lore Bard and I'd rather not delay bard abilities any further. If you really want an invocation, you can take the feat.

[Thoughtcandle]

Bard 1, Hex 1 for med. armor, shield and EB, then Bard X. I'm not sure Warlock 2 is worth it anymore for a Lore Bard and I'd rather not delay bard abilities any further. If you really want an invocation, you can take the feat.

Do you mind telling me what feat?

[Keravath]

Ideally you want to take warlock first primarily for wisdom saving throw proficiency rather than dex. Later on, con and wis are typically more important while dex is mostly associated with mitigating AoE damage.

If you want two invocations like devils sight+agonizing blast then two levels of hexblade may make sense. However, if you only want a single invocation like agonizing blast then the eldritch adept feat will allow you to pick up just that one at the cost of an ASI.

lore bard X/ hexblade 2 is a fun combination. You will lean into the ranged single target damage with agonizing blast combined with whichever spell seems the most appropriate. If you go 1 bard/ 1 hexblade/ 4 or 5 more bard you get to level 6 with 3rd level spells. Level 5 may feel a bit lackluster but you will still have eldricth blast with two bolts for ok single target damage (or good damage if you use your level 4 ASI for Eldritch adept).

Starting variant human or a customized lineage from Tasha's lets you start with a feat at level 1. Level 1 warlock with eldritch adept then lore bard the rest of the way lets you boost your charisma at character level 5 and would probably be the most efficient option.

[Thoughtcandle]

Ideally you want to take warlock first primarily for wisdom saving throw proficiency rather than dex. Later on, con and wis are typically more important while dex is mostly associated with mitigating AoE damage.

If you want two invocations like devils sight+agonizing blast then two levels of hexblade may make sense. However, if you only want a single invocation like agonizing blast then the eldritch adept feat will allow you to pick up just that one at the cost of an ASI.

lore bard X/ hexblade 2 is a fun combination. You will lean into the ranged single target damage with agonizing blast combined with whichever spell seems the most appropriate. If you go 1 bard/ 1 hexblade/ 4 or 5 more bard you get to level 6 with 3rd level spells. Level 5 may feel a bit lackluster but you will still have eldricth blast with two bolts for ok single target damage (or good damage if you use your level 4 ASI for Eldritch adept).

Starting variant human or a customized lineage from Tasha's lets you start with a feat at level 1. Level 1 warlock with eldritch adept then lore bard the rest of the way lets you boost your charisma at character level 5 and would probably be the most efficient option.

Should have initially mentioned, but race is going to be warforged envoy if that makes any difference.

DM is more about story/plot >>> mechanics and min/max as well

[KorvinStarmast]

Starting variant human or a customized lineage from Tasha's lets you start with a feat at level 1. Level 1 warlock with eldritch adept then lore bard the rest of the way lets you boost your charisma at character level 5 and would probably be the most efficient option. You read my mind. Nice post. :smallsmile:

[diplomancer]

I don't know if it's the loss in caster levels or my general dislike of cheese, but I have a strong feeling against this combo. That said, when I was considering it with my Lore Bard, and weighing it against Knowledge Cleric 1 (which I eventually chose) I only did it after Bard 6. I wouldn't do it before Bard 5. Nothing is worth being a level 5 caster without even 3rd level slots, let alone spells.

More so if your DM makes the mistake of giving you access to a humble, uncommon, Instrument of the Bards :p

[Keravath]

Just to add ... one level of knowledge cleric (as diplomancer mentioned) is also a good combination for a lore bard. You pick up a variety of useful spells. Expertise in two more skills and only delay your spell progression by one level. If you don't want to go for the agonizing blast option then knowledge cleric is a very good and thematic option for a lore bard.

As for character development, role playing and back story, it is relatively easy to come up with a character development that can justify the choices of starting either warlock, cleric or bard while ultimately developing as mostly a bard. Your first class could be your upbringing or an event that happened in the past (like starting as a knowledge cleric or hexblade) while the character's real dreams lie in entertainment and knowledge so they train as a lore bard. It is obviously up to you and your DM to sort out but there is nothing that would prevent the character from acquiring most of the training they require for other classes as part of their backstory.

e.g. A warforged originally built for battle but finding themselves intrigued learning about the world around them. They start at a monastery or temple with a large library. They aren't as much interested in the faith itself but the knowledge found within, perhaps they work as a librarian by day. They live in the town and meet many people. They take to socializing and gather knowledge in the town establishments, learning from travelers and others. They find the camaraderie, music and boisterous nature of these places fun and while studying/working by day, they begin to learn to converse, entertain, interact and extract the truth from the many stories they hear. They learn to play an instrument and perhaps sing or at least talk on many subjects. When an adventuring group with a fascinating story comes along they decide to join them, give notice at the monastery and head out. Initially they rely on their cleric skills but as time goes by, it is the bardic abilities that increase since that is what they are using on their journey.

Similar stories are possible for starting as either a warlock or a bard. It is always easy to come up with a background story for taking a first level different from all the rest. It can actually be more challenging from a character story point of view to justify a one level dip into something else later in the character's progression unless you have added hooks for it already into the character background or an event occurs during the adventure that spurs such a decision.

[Bobthewizard]

Do you mind telling me what feat?

Eldritch Adept from Tasha's gives you one Warlock invocation. You'll need the level of Warlock first if you want agonizing blast.

[Merudo]

Personally I'm not fond of the Bard / Hexblade multiclass.

You lose too much by not staying Bard, and what you get from Hexblade is minimal.

The Hexblade dip works best with the Paladin (for CHA based melee attacks) or with the Sorcerer (double eldritch blast via quicken is really strong).

[Thoughtcandle]

Personally I'm not fond of the Bard / Hexblade multiclass.

You lose too much by not staying Bard, and what you get from Hexblade is minimal.

The Hexblade dip works best with the Paladin (for CHA based melee attacks) or with the Sorcerer (double eldritch blast via quicken is really strong).

Not necessarily looking to min/max, just gives me more combat viability + I really like the flavor