Official Sources on Androids?

[Palanan]

Is there any information on androids from official Paizo sources, apart from Inner Sea Bestiary and Bestiary 5?

I feel like there should be something more, maybe in an AP or a Players Companion?

[unseenmage]

The Iron Gods adventure paths should have some info on Androids as well.

[Calthropstu]

There's definitely a lacking. I think there may be some in a few of the pfs scenarios.

[Psyren]

Starfinder has a decent amount of lore on them if you're okay tailoring some of that. You can skip the society and government stuff, but things like mental outlook and attitude might be helpful.

[Palanan]

I appreciate the suggestions—Iron Gods is probably a good place to start.

It always seemed strange that androids weren’t fleshed out, so to speak, in the Advanced Race Guide. To me they seem much more interesting than, say, wayangs or suli.

[Calthropstu]

I appreciate the suggestions—Iron Gods is probably a good place to start.

It always seemed strange that androids weren’t fleshed out, so to speak, in the Advanced Race Guide. To me they seem much more interesting than, say, wayangs or suli.

Because they were largely rejected.

They caught a lot of flack from a lot of people and the feedback on them was very negative. And those that liked them were not very vocal about it.

Since I am squarley in the "keep your sci-fi out of my fantasy" camp, I am glad they didn't do too much of it.

[Psyren]

To me they seem much more interesting than, say, wayangs or suli.

Those two were pretty easy to flesh out though. The former has ready folklore to draw from, while the latter is "what if genasi, but based on jann?" Whereas Androids need a bit more setup for a quasi-medieval fantasy world.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Calthropstu
Because they were largely rejected.

They caught a lot of flack from a lot of people and the feedback on them was very negative. And those that liked them were not very vocal about it.

Interesting, I had no idea.

Where did all the flack and feedback happen?

[Calthropstu]

Interesting, I had no idea.

Where did all the flack and feedback happen?

Message boards, cons, mails, feedback messages. A lot of it in pfs events. You'd hear a lot of "you mean golems right?" wheen androids and robots were brought out. Some of the pfs gms rolled with it, a few fought back. Can't count how many times Krull was brought up.

[Palanan]

Okay, interesting.

In a recent Pathfinder game, we had one guy who would apparently hit the ceiling if gunpowder was even mentioned. The DM never brought it up. If that's the same type of reaction that androids faced, I can see why Paizo didn't spend more effort on them.

[Calthropstu]

Okay, interesting.

In a recent Pathfinder game, we had one guy who would apparently hit the ceiling if gunpowder was even mentioned. The DM never brought it up. If that's the same type of reaction that androids faced, I can see why Paizo didn't spend more effort on them.

Yes. That was exactly what happened.

[Raven777]

So you can head on a multiverse journey and meet devils and angels chatting philosophy together in Baraskal, or head to Yugalmot and chat up some Astral Plane aliens yourself, or literally go shopping in Heaven's Shore or Dis, but dwarven gunpowder from Alkenstar and humanoid robots from Numeria are too much for some people? Should we ever tell them by the time of PF2 there's an actual AI god?

[Calthropstu]

So you can head on a multiverse journey and meet devils and angels chatting philosophy together in Baraskal, or head to Yugalmot and chat up some Astral Plane aliens yourself, or literally go shopping in Heaven's Shore or Dis, but dwarven gunpowder from Alkenstar and humanoid robots from Numeria are too much for some people? Should we ever tell them by the time of PF2 there's an actual AI god?

PF2 has been thoroughly rejected by much of the community. The fact that roll20 still ranks PF1 far higher with more than triple the available games shows that.

So your examples are not exactly helping the case here.

[Raven777]

PF2 has been thoroughly rejected by much of the community. The fact that roll20 still ranks PF1 far higher with more than triple the available games shows that.

So your examples are not exactly helping the case here.

I know, I still play PF1 too. Distant Realms (the book detailing cosmolitan planar capitals) is a PF1 book, actually. So is taking a detour from fighting the witches of Irrisen to go flip tanks and punch Rasputin in 1917 Russia. ;)
PF is a giant kitchen sink of tropes cribbed from all over fiction, it's the setting's best feature imo.

[Calthropstu]

I know, I still play PF1 too. Distant Realms (the book detailing cosmolitan planar capitals) is a PF1 book, actually. So is taking a detour from fighting the witches of Irrisen to go flip tanks and punch Rasputin in 1917 Russia. ;)
PF is a giant kitchen sink of tropes cribbed from all over fiction, it's the setting's best feature imo.

I agree. The reverse isekai punching tanks was amusing. Once. But androids on Golarion just breaks the feel for me. It might be ok a couple of times, but full immersion just breaks the feel of a fantasy story. At least for me. And many others.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Calthropstu
PF2 has been thoroughly rejected by much of the community.

Does Paizo share this assessment? And if so, are they working on PF3, or are they sticking with PF2 for the foreseeable future?


Originally Posted by Raven777
PF is a giant kitchen sink of tropes cribbed from all over fiction, it's the setting's best feature imo.

As it happens, this is what I like least about Golarion, precisely because it’s such a jumble. I would much rather have an internally consistent setting than a randomly assorted hodgepodge.


Originally Posted by Calthropstu
But androids on Golarion just breaks the feel for me. It might be ok a couple of times, but full immersion just breaks the feel of a fantasy story.

Very much agreed. I can work with androids, depending on the circumstance, but the robots and cyborgs are definitely too much for a fantasy setting, to say nothing of AI demigods.

.

[Mnemius]

Some sort of ancient crashed starship and looting weird from it has been a trope for ages though. It's even in the old D&D cartoon.

I was hoping the pathfinder technology guide book would have more, but nope.

And I guess I ran into the opposite. I ran into pathfinder GMs who loved the tech year adventures and kept wanting to run them.

[torrasque666]

Some sort of ancient crashed starship and looting weird from it has been a trope for ages though. It's even in the old D&D cartoon.

And the adventure module Expedition to the Barrier Peaks. That's right, Sci-fi elements have been involved with D&D since 1980​.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Mnemius
Some sort of ancient crashed starship and looting weird from it has been a trope for ages though.

The basic notion is very Krull, but as noted it goes back even further.

More recently, there’s been at least one 3.0 web module based around this theme, although not very inspired. And in general it’s just not my thing.

[Calthropstu]

Some sort of ancient crashed starship and looting weird from it has been a trope for ages though. It's even in the old D&D cartoon.

I was hoping the pathfinder technology guide book would have more, but nope.

And I guess I ran into the opposite. I ran into pathfinder GMs who loved the tech year adventures and kept wanting to run them.

Yes. There are people who absolutely enjoy it. Yhere are others who are indifferent who will play it just cuz. But PFS took a huge hit that year. The group I played with went from about 20 - 30 each weeak running 4-5 tables to aboit 10-15 running about 2 maybe 3 tables.

And I know that robots played a part in that.

[Psyren]

Does Paizo share this assessment? And if so, are they working on PF3, or are they sticking with PF2 for the foreseeable future?

I can't speak to PF2's popularity relative to PF1 or the industry as a whole; Calthropstu cited the roll20 statistics which are probably the closest thing to a lay indicator we can get on how the edition is doing, especially with so many more virtual games happening thanks to COVID. I'll be going to DragonCon in two weeks and will see how many of each game are being run there as well.

What I will say is that , even if PF2 is truly underperforming, supporting it and gathering information on what their fans want is probably a good move. Even after WotC realized 4e wasn't setting the hobby on fire, it still gave them useful data that they could then apply to 5e.

...What were we talking about again?

[Calthropstu]

I can't speak to PF2's popularity relative to PF1 or the industry as a whole; Calthropstu cited the roll20 statistics which are probably the closest thing to a lay indicator we can get on how the edition is doing, especially with so many more virtual games happening thanks to COVID. I'll be going to DragonCon in two weeks and will see how many of each game are being run there as well.

What I will say is that , even if PF2 is truly underperforming, supporting it and gathering information on what their fans want is probably a good move. Even after WotC realized 4e wasn't setting the hobby on fire, it still gave them useful data that they could then apply to 5e.

...What were we talking about again?

DragonCon will likely deliberately inflate the number of 2e games because they will want to push the current (and thus profitable) version. A better indicator will be how full those tables get.

[Psyren]

DragonCon will likely deliberately inflate the number of 2e games because they will want to push the current (and thus profitable) version. A better indicator will be how full those tables get.

No argument here.

I myself will likely spend most of my tabletop time playing Starfinder :smalltongue:

[Calthropstu]

No argument here.

I myself will likely spend most of my tabletop time playing Starfinder :smalltongue:

I hear you can find a few of them at the signing booths...

[Psyren]

DragonCon will likely deliberately inflate the number of 2e games because they will want to push the current (and thus profitable) version. A better indicator will be how full those tables get.

I'm here at DragonCon and wanted to provide an update on this as I gradually sober up from night one.

The best way to view the current event schedule is via the official app. (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.coreapps.android.followme.dragoncon 14)

Based on the gaming events section, there appear to be exactly two PF2 games scheduled for the whole Con, taking place on Saturday and Monday. Compare that to 4x PF1 and 5e games/2x 3.5 games on Friday, 5x PF1 and 5e events on Saturday, 3x PF1/5x 5e events on Sunday, and 2x 5e/PF1 events on Monday.

All in all, to me this doesn't bode too well for PF2 from a popularity perspective compared to its predecessor.

[Calthropstu]

I'm here at DragonCon and wanted to provide an update on this as I gradually sober up from night one.

The best way to view the current event schedule is via the official app. (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.coreapps.android.followme.dragoncon 14)

Based on the gaming events section, there appear to be exactly two PF2 games scheduled for the whole Con, taking place on Saturday and Monday. Compare that to 4x PF1 and 5e games/2x 3.5 games on Friday, 5x PF1 and 5e events on Saturday, 3x PF1/5x 5e events on Sunday, and 2x 5e/PF1 events on Monday.

All in all, to me this doesn't bode too well for PF2 from a popularity perspective compared to its predecessor.

Wow. That is far from what I expected. I expected a bunch more with near empty tables.

Them not even putting the tables forth is genuinely acknowledging that pf2e is a failure.

[Eldonauran]

Wow. That is far from what I expected. I expected a bunch more with near empty tables.

Them not even putting the tables forth is genuinely acknowledging that pf2e is a failure.I expected as much from the start. A few good things have come out of my experience with PF2, namely certain gameplay mechanics (3-actions, reactions, scaling cantrips, heightened spells and others). I even found a version of the alchemist that I actually like. There is just something about the 3.x edition gameplay and mechanics that just feel ... right. 5th edition does feel right. PF1 is a near perfect match for me.

[Calthropstu]

I expected as much from the start. A few good things have come out of my experience with PF2, namely certain gameplay mechanics (3-actions, reactions, scaling cantrips, heightened spells and others). I even found a version of the alchemist that I actually like. There is just something about the 3.x edition gameplay and mechanics that just feel ... right. 5th edition does feel right. PF1 is a near perfect match for me.

True, but I expected them to atleast TRY to promote its play at GenCon. If they aren't trying there, then they aren't trying at all. Which does not speak well for the future of Paizo.

[Arutema]

Anyway, in an attempt to re-rail this thread;

The best resource for PF1 androids is probably the "Ecology of the Android" article in the backmatter of the first volume of Iron Gods. The campaign outline in the same volume has some backstory on the crashed ship that brought a limited number of androids to Golarion.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Calthropstu
Them not even putting the tables forth is genuinely acknowledging that pf2e is a failure.

…If they aren't trying there, then they aren't trying at all. Which does not speak well for the future of Paizo.

That does raise the question—if not P2, then what is Paizo’s future? But perhaps a question that deserves its own thread (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?636079-PF2-and-the-Future-of-Paizo&p=25185464#post25185464).


Originally Posted by Arutema
The best resource for PF1 androids is probably the "Ecology of the Android" article in the backmatter of the first volume of Iron Gods. The campaign outline in the same volume has some backstory on the crashed ship that brought a limited number of androids to Golarion.

Thank you. I didn’t mind the detour into convention-land (however exactly that happened) but I appreciate the specific reference.

It looks like there’s also material on androids in People of the Stars and Inner Sea Races, so that’s promising.

.

[Calthropstu]

That does raise the question—if not P2, then what is Paizo’s future? But perhaps a question that deserves its own thread (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?636079-PF2-and-the-Future-of-Paizo&p=25185464#post25185464).



Thank you. I didn’t mind the detour into convention-land (however exactly that happened) but I appreciate the specific reference.

It looks like there’s also material on androids in People of the Stars and Inner Sea Races, so that’s promising.

.

Yeah, there's a little bit out there. A few of the PFS scenarios from that year has some stuff if I recall correctly.