circlet of persuasion question

[Mordante]

Does a Circlet of Persuasion

"This silver headband grants a +3 competence bonus on the wearer's Charisma-based checks."

work with Snowflake Wardance

"once activated, you add your Charisma modifier to your attack rolls with any slashing melee weapon you wield in one hand"

and or Slippers of Battledancing?

"Charisma modifier instead of his Strength or Dexterity modifier for attack rolls and damage rolls with one-handed or light weapons"

Also does that combination work?

[AvatarVecna]

Attack rolls are not ability checks, so no, Circle Of Persuasion would not apply to attack rolls even if the attack was made to be Charisma-based.

[Kurald Galain]

The game distinguishes betweeen attack rolls, saving throws, and ability (or skill) checks. Even though all of them are 1d20 modified by (among other things) an ability score modifier, a roll is still not a check. The distinction basically exists because not everything that gives a bonus to throws should also give a bonus to checks, and so forth. For similar reasons, a weapon that adds +2 to your rolls is 8000 gp, whereas a masterwork item that adds +2 to your checks is 50 gp.

[Mordante]

Attack rolls are not ability checks, so no, Circle Of Persuasion would not apply to attack rolls even if the attack was made to be Charisma-based.


The game distinguishes betweeen attack rolls, saving throws, and ability (or skill) checks. Even though all of them are 1d20 modified by (among other things) an ability score modifier, a roll is still not a check. The distinction basically exists because not everything that gives a bonus to throws should also give a bonus to checks, and so forth. For similar reasons, a weapon that adds +2 to your rolls is 8000 gp, whereas a masterwork item that adds +2 to your checks is 50 gp.


Thank you both, that does make sense.

What about vestige binding? I guess the circlet also doesn't work for that either? I want to do one level binder with one of my characters. But a DC15 is kind of hard for a 1 level binder to pass reliable. My character has a charisma score of 16.


To make a pact with your summoned vestige, you must make a binding check (1d20 + your effective binder level + your Cha modifier). This process requires 1 minute, but you can choose to make a rushed binding check as a full-round action at a —10 penalty. The DC for this check is provided in the description of each vestige (see pages 16—49). You must make your perilous pact alone; others cannot aid you in any way.

[Aracor]

A binding check is definitely a charisma based check.

[Zanos]

If it says charisma-based checks and not charisma ability checks, it would apply to any roll that included charisma in it, IMO.

[Khedrac]

To make a pact with your summoned vestige, you must make a binding check (1d20 + your effective binder level + your Cha modifier). This process requires 1 minute, but you can choose to make a rushed binding check as a full-round action at a —10 penalty. The DC for this check is provided in the description of each vestige (see pages 16—49). You must make your perilous pact alone; others cannot aid you in any way.

What about vestige binding? I guess the circlet also doesn't work for that either? I want to do one level binder with one of my characters. But a DC15 is kind of hard for a 1 level binder to pass reliable. My character has a charisma score of 16.
Sadlly the text you quote makes a binding check a casterbinder-level check not a charisma check.

However, remember that failing the check merely results in a poor pact - this means you have to act according to the vestige's desires or take a -1 penalty on attacks, saves and checks. So long as you choose vestiges that will not require things you don't want to do, all you really suffer is the sign.

[Mordante]

Sadlly the text you quote makes a binding check a casterbinder-level check not a charisma check.

However, remember that failing the check merely results in a poor pact - this means you have to act according to the vestige's desires or take a -1 penalty on attacks, saves and checks. So long as you choose vestiges that will not require things you don't want to do, all you really suffer is the sign.

I think you are correct. That according to RAW the circlet doesn't work for a Binding check. I was thinking of doing 1 lvl binder for a Hellfire Warlock. But the feat Soulmeld with Strongheart Vest would a better option I think.

[Rijan_Sai]

A binding check is definitely a charisma based check.
^This^


If it says charisma-based checks and not charisma ability checks, it would apply to any roll that included charisma in it, IMO.
While I (sadly) must agree that it would not work with the attack rolls of Snowflake Wardance and Slippers of Battledancing, I most certainly agree that Caster/Binder/Etc-level checks that are CHA-based (Sorcerer, Binder, etc.) would qualify!


I think you are correct. That according to RAW the circlet doesn't work for a Binding check. I was thinking of doing 1 lvl binder for a Hellfire Warlock. But the feat Soulmeld with Strongheart Vest would a better option I think.
See above for my opinion on Binding checks.
As for the soulmeld, it is (very hotly) debatable. While I am among those who agree that it does work, I can see the rather compelling evidence from those who say it does not. This is one that hits the dead-center bullseye of "Ask Your DM."

[Dalmosh]

It would definitely work on checks to attack using Iaijutsu Focus

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Refer back to Kurald Galain's reply. Attack rolls and saving throws are distinct from checks. Any check which adds charisma, including a binding check, is a charisma-based check. The big limiter to the circlet is that it adds a competence bonus, so you run into stacking issues.

Re: Binder and build choices: Unless you're going Anima Mage, succeeding on the binding check doesn't matter too much. For instance, the influence of Naberius only requires you to obnoxiously chew scenery at every opportunity, which many characters would be doing anyway. In addition, actually taking-then-healing the Con damage seems more likely to avoid DM wrath than negating it entirely.