Combat Reflexes and AoO's

[daggaz]

Ok, I just caught this little tidbit on the simple QandA thread and I was like, Whaaa?

Because everybody I know, and I mean Everybody, has been doing this wrong, according to RAW.

This just seemed so huge (and so commonly overlooked) that I thought it bared mention here. From the SRD:

Combat Reflexes and Additional Attacks of Opportunity
If you have the Combat Reflexes feat you can add your Dexterity modifier to the number of attacks of opportunity you can make in a round. This feat does not let you make more than one attack for a given opportunity, but if the same opponent provokes two attacks of opportunity from you, you could make two separate attacks of opportunity (since each one represents a different opportunity). Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn’t count as more than one opportunity for that opponent. All these attacks are at your full normal attack bonus.

My emphasis. Yeah, you read it correctly. An oppenent who is moving in thru the threatened area of a large sized fighter wielding a spiked chain (total reach 20 feet) only draws ONE AoO due to the movement. One. Regardless of combat reflexes and your dex score. You might get another due to some other action or feat, i dont know, but for plain movement vs combat reflexes, it is ONE attack.

Ill say it again. Everybody I have ever played with has gotten this rule wrong. Or am I missing something? Seems like the spiked chain blender routine has just bit the dirt, making improved trip all the better after all..

[Clementx]

Its just you. Everyone I know that has looked at the combat chapter for more than 10 minutes knows how it works.

[daggaz]

Its just you. Everyone I know that has looked at the combat chapter for more than 10 minutes knows how it works.

Umm.. yeah, thanks for the flame. While I have been playing tabletop for only a year or so, I can promise you that I spent a LOT more than ten minutes pouring over the many rules. I just happened to miss that one.

And if you had spent more than ten seconds reading my post, you would see that actually everybody I play with has made the same mistake. Thats in RL and on online forums, including other playground members here. So I was just curious how many other people may have missed this detail.

But umm..yeah, thanks for the snarky comment bro! =) You wins a internet snark award! (its not a cookie)

[Amiria]

Yes, it was only you and the people you played with. Combat Reflexes with some sort of reach is still very good, even without Improved Trip or Knock-Down. Just do enough damage with that one attack or have the Stand Still feat.

Edit: Was that flamy ? Probably snarky, but the rule was always pretty obvious for me, and you kinda invited such comments. :smallamused:

[daggaz]

Yeah, I am starting to see why people were talking about standstill now. Makes a lot more sense..

Edit: No I didnt think your comment was flamy, at least, I took no offensive. It was borderline snarky with the bit that it was only me and my friends, but thats ok, because I already know that "we" weren't the only ones..

[tyckspoon]

It's probably not an uncommon misreading, but I think most people catch it sooner or later (probably after the first time a reach-optimized AOO monkey hits somebody six times on the charge and somebody else goes "That can't possibly be meant to work that way.") The knowledge that it doesn't work that way would be why you see Improved Trip/Stand Still/Knockdown suggested for most of the AOO-focused builds around here.

[Kaelik]

Just to point something out. Try looking at the early Order of the Stick Comic where Roy fights a Spiked Chain wielding Half-Ogre. Apparently Rich himself has made that mistake.

[daggaz]

Just to point something out. Try looking at the early Order of the Stick Comic where Roy fights a Spiked Chain wielding Half-Ogre. Apparently Rich himself has made that mistake.

Yeah, I totally blame The Giant, actually. It was his fault I thought it worked that way! BAAAAAD RICH! BAAAAAAD RICH!

[cupkeyk]

So does a rogue only need to tumble past one square to avoid an AoO? It would save on his speed penalties since he can tumble only up to half his speed without penalties. A halfling would only need to tumble five feet(ten feet of his movement) and walk the rest of the ten even if he is approaching instead of disengaging.

[Jack Zander]

So does a rogue only need to tumble past one square to avoid an AoO? It would save on his speed penalties since he can tumble only up to half his speed without penalties. A halfling would only need to tumble five feet(ten feet of his movement) and walk the rest of the ten even if he is approaching instead of disengaging.

No, because the creature still threatens all of the squares. He can only make one AoO against each creature though.

If the rogue tumbles past the first square, the AoO isn't wasted, it never got a chance to happen. If the rogue continues to move without tumbling, the ability to AoO him is still present.

[tainsouvra]

Just to point something out. Try looking at the early Order of the Stick Comic where Roy fights a Spiked Chain wielding Half-Ogre. Apparently Rich himself has made that mistake. Yeah, I saw that too, and I think it was discussed in the thread for the comic (although I can't be sure). Some groups just aren't as rule-oriented as others, and this is a common rule to slip through the cracks when people play fast-and-loose.

[Jasdoif]

Ok, I just caught this little tidbit on the simple QandA thread and I was like, Whaaa?I wasn't kidding when I said it was often overlooked. It's basically slipped in the middle of a paragraph at the end of the section.

This is the kind of thing that deserves a repeat mention in Combat Reflexes' feat text.

[deadseashoals]

Just to point something out. Try looking at the early Order of the Stick Comic where Roy fights a Spiked Chain wielding Half-Ogre. Apparently Rich himself has made that mistake.

I figured it was satire... It is a pretty common mistake for new players, in any case.

[brian c]

Just to point something out. Try looking at the early Order of the Stick Comic where Roy fights a Spiked Chain wielding Half-Ogre. Apparently Rich himself has made that mistake.

Well, if you notice in that strip, Roy says "oh, sorry, I only got a C- in my Attacks of Opportunity class", so I think it's poking fun at people who don't understand the AoO rules, like Roy.

[KillianHawkeye]

This is also a problem for people who were more familiar with 3.0 rules, where this was never specified. When I got into 3.5, I guess there were a lot of places where I just kind of skimmed through looking for changes, so I never realized that this was the rule until I saw it in the Rules Compendium! I thought it was an errata, lol!

[Keld Denar]

That's not the only thing wrong with Rich's interpetation of the rules. The 1/2 ogre in the strip should still only have 10' reach, not 15' reach. A 1/2 ogre is still only a medium creature, despite its powerful build. Medium creatures with reach weapons reach 10' REGARDLESS of powerful build. Even if said 1/2 ogre WAS large, he would then have 20' reach, not 10' reach.

[Amiria]

Half-Ogres don't have powerful build. They are large.