Eldrich Adept rules question

[Foxydono]

If you take a feat that grands you the ability to cast a spell (magic initiate for example) or if you take a race that can cast a spell (Drow for example), do you qualify for the prerequesite of the Eldrich Adept feat?

I ask this also in the light of the 'attunement errata' regarding p.136 which states when you are considered a spellcaster regarding the attunement of magical items.

Is there an official ruling regarding this subject? And how would you rule this both RAW and RAI?

[Quietus]

If you take a feat that grands you the ability to cast a spell (magic initiate for example) or if you take a race that can cast a spell (Drow for example), do you qualify for the prerequesite of the Eldrich Adept feat?

I ask this also in the light of the 'attunement errata' regarding p.136 which states when you are considered a spellcaster regarding the attunement of magical items.

Is there an official ruling regarding this subject? And how would you rule this both RAW and RAI?

If your concern is the line "If the invocation has a prerequisite of any kind, you can choose that invocation only if you're a warlock who meets the prerequisite.", then no, taking Magic Initiate : Warlock doesn't get you past that. The only way to be a Warlock, is to take a level of Warlock.

[Bobthewizard]

By RAW, I don't think so. The magic items require attunement "by a spellcaster" which is broader than requiring the "spellcasting or pact magic feature." Feat and racial spells don't give you the spellcasting feature.

Having said that, when I DM, I would certainly let anyone take the feat. Devil's sight on a shadow monk would be a lot of fun.

[Quietus]

By RAW, I don't think so. The magic items require attunement "by a spellcaster" which is broader than requiring the "spellcasting or pact magic feature." Feat and racial spells don't give you the spellcasting feature.

Having said that, when I DM, I would certainly let anyone take the feat. Devil's sight on a shadow monk would be a lot of fun.

Oh! That prerequisite! Apologies, just woke up - as Bob notes here, this is asking for the Spellcasting feature, or Pact Magic feature. That means you must have something from a class that grants that ability. Compare to the War Caster feat's prequisite, "Ability to cast at least one spell".

[Foxydono]

Oh! That prerequisite! Apologies, just woke up - as Bob notes here, this is asking for the Spellcasting feature, or Pact Magic feature. That means you must have something from a class that grants that ability. Compare to the War Caster feat's prequisite, "Ability to cast at least one spell".
No problem and thanks for the reply. Were does it state that the ability to cast a spell must come from a class and not a race or a feat?

[Foxydono]

By RAW, I don't think so. The magic items require attunement "by a spellcaster" which is broader than requiring the "spellcasting or pact magic feature." Feat and racial spells don't give you the spellcasting feature.

Having said that, when I DM, I would certainly let anyone take the feat. Devil's sight on a shadow monk would be a lot of fun.
Thanks for the reply. Even if spellcasting is less broad then 'a spellcaster', it doesn't say what this means specificly. Or at least I can't find it.

Does it mean the ability to cast a spell or does it mean the spellcasting class feature?

I would personally think the former or they should have specified it more clearly, but that's just me. And yes, a drow shadow monk is just what I am looking for :)

[solidork]

The fact that they had to specify Spellcasting AND Pact Magic indicates that they intended the feat only for people who have levels in a class that grants one of those two features and not just the ability to cast a spell. If it was the latter, they wouldn't have had to specify that Pact Magic also qualifies, since obviously you can cast spells if you have pact magic.

[Foxydono]

The fact that they had to specify Spellcasting AND Pact Magic indicates that they intended the feat only for people who have levels in a class that grants one of those two features and not just the ability to cast a spell. If it was the latter, they wouldn't have had to specify that Pact Magic also qualifies, since obviously you can cast spells if you have pact magic.
Can't argue with that. Guess my question is awnsered, but I'll check with the DM regardless :)

[Hytheter]

Thanks for the reply. Even if spellcasting is less broad then 'a spellcaster', it doesn't say what this means specificly. Or at least I can't find it.

It's not just looking for 'spellcasting' but specifically naming a feature which is called 'Spellcasting'. If the feature that grants you spells isn't called 'Spellcasting' (because it's called 'Magic Initiate' or 'Drow Magic' for example) then it doesn't qualify. I'm pretty sure only casting classes get this.

[RogueJK]

It's not just looking for 'spellcasting' but specifically naming a feature which is called 'Spellcasting'. If the feature that grants you spells isn't called 'Spellcasting' (because it's called 'Magic Initiate' or 'Drow Magic' for example) then it doesn't qualify. I'm pretty sure only casting classes get this.

Correct. It's talking about the Spellcasting class feature specifically, not just being able to cast spells from any source. There are even subclasses that grant the ability to cast some spells, but who do not grant specifically the Spellcasting class feature, like Shadow, Sun Soul, or Four Elements Monks, the Psi Warrior Fighter, or Totem or Ancestral Guardian Barbarians, for example.

Compare to the Eldritch Knight Fighter or Arcane Trickster Rogue, or any of the various caster classes like Rangers, Druids, Paladins, Bards, Clerics, Artificers, Wizards, or Sorcerers, all of which gain the Spellcasting class feature. (Or the Pact Magic class feature in the case of Warlocks.)

[Foxydono]

Correct. It's talking about the Spellcasting class feature specifically, not just being able to cast spells from any source. There are even subclasses that grant the ability to cast some spells, but who do not grant specifically the Spellcasting class feature, like Shadow, Sun Soul, or Four Elements Monks, the Psi Warrior Fighter, or Totem or Ancestral Guardian Barbarians, for example.

Compare to the Eldritch Knight Fighter or Arcane Trickster Rogue, or any of the various caster classes like Rangers, Druids, Paladins, Bards, Clerics, Artificers, Wizards, or Sorcerers, all of which gain the Spellcasting class feature. (Or the Pact Magic class feature in the case of Warlocks.)
After thinking about it, I respectfully dissagree. I'll concede, as stated earlier, it is what they intented, but it isn't specified anywere they are talking about a class feature.

If you look at the Drow for example, they even say 'Charisma is your spellcasting ability'. If they do not specificy they are talking about a class feature anywere in the feat (or erratta), then RAW this is not the case. Even if it makes the 'pact magic' prerequesite redundant.

[Hytheter]

After thinking about it, I respectfully dissagree. I'll concede, as stated earlier, it is what they intented, but it isn't specified anywere they are talking about a class feature.

"Prerequisite: Spellcasting or Pact Magic feature"

The word feature here is referring to both Spellcasting and Pact Magic. In the same way that when I say "you can wear long or short pants" both long and short are types of pants.

[Gignere]

After thinking about it, I respectfully dissagree. I'll concede, as stated earlier, it is what they intented, but it isn't specified anywere they are talking about a class feature.

If you look at the Drow for example, they even say 'Charisma is your spellcasting ability'. If they do not specificy they are talking about a class feature anywere in the feat (or erratta), then RAW this is not the case. Even if it makes the 'pact magic' prerequesite redundant.

Open up your PHB go to any and/or all of the casting classes or subclasses there is always a feature called Spellcasting. That is what the feat is referring to. Warlocks doesn’t get this feature that’s why they called out Pact Magic specifically because this is the feature that warlocks get not Spellcasting.

[Foxydono]

"Prerequisite: Spellcasting or Pact Magic feature"

The word feature here is referring to both Spellcasting and Pact Magic. In the same way that when I say "you can wear long or short pants" both long and short are types of pants.
I don't follow your reasoning. Pact magic isn't the same as casting a spell and is inherently different as it is a power granted. If you break it down, you simply have a prerequesite that say you can take the feat if you have A or B.

RAW, if I am not mistaken, you don't need to look at any link between A or B. If that's the case, only one question remains: what is 'spellcasting'?

If I use Google for a definition, it means: 'The ability to cast a spell'. Since there is no erratta or other legal source stating otherwise, RAW you should be able to take the feat of you can cast a spell. Nothing more, nothing less.

Am I missing something?

[Hytheter]

RAW, if I am not mistaken, you don't need to look at any link between A or B. If that's the case, only one question remains: what is 'spellcasting'?

It's not a question. 'Spellcasting' is the Spellcasting feature.

"Prerequisite: Spellcasting or Pact Magic feature"

Just as "short or long pants" can be read as "short pants or long pants" this sentence can be read as "Spellcasting feature or Pact Magic feature." Not repeating the noun in a case like this is well-established in English and there are other such instances in the rules. I admit it can be read ambiguously as "[Spellcasting] or [Pact Magic feature]" but I think it obvious from context that the correct reading is [Spellcasting OR Pact Magic][feature]."

[Keravath]

I don't follow your reasoning. Pact magic isn't the same as casting a spell and is inherently different as it is a power granted. If you break it down, you simply have a prerequesite that say you can take the feat if you have A or B.

RAW, if I am not mistaken, you don't need to look at any link between A or B. If that's the case, only one question remains: what is 'spellcasting'?

If I use Google for a definition, it means: 'The ability to cast a spell'. Since there is no erratta or other legal source stating otherwise, RAW you should be able to take the feat of you can cast a spell. Nothing more, nothing less.

Am I missing something?

It is just the way a compound clause is formed in English.

"Prerequisite: Spellcasting or Pact Magic feature."

is the same as

"Prerequisite: Spellcasting feature or Pact Magic feature."

The "Spellcasting feature" is not the same as the ability to cast a spell.

You are trying to read it as "Spellcasting" or "Pact Magic feature". However, what does "Spellcasting" mean in the 5e rules?

If you look in the PHB there is a specific feature called "Spellcasting". Sub-headings in this section include "Spellcasting ability". Having a spellcasting ability does not mean a character has the Spellcasting feature. The "Spellcasting" heading in the PHB is a definition of what "Spellcasting" specifically means in the D&D 5e rules. Google may have a different definition.

The class features table with spells known and slots available include "Spellcasting" in the table for classes that receive that ability.

"Spellcasting" in 5e means one specific ability - while "spellcasting" is the process of casting spells.

Eldritch Knight and Arcane Trickster Rogue both have sections titled "Spellcasting".

5e differentiates between Spellcasting (the feature) and the general rules on spellcasting (which are described in chapter 10). The shadow monk and the 4 elements monk for example have the ability to cast spells using the rules on spellcasting but do NOT have Spellcasting as a feature.

Paladins and Rangers DO have Spellcasting.

The multiclassing rules have a good example of why this can be confusing:

"SPELLCASTING
Your capacity for spellcasting depends partly on your combined levels in all your spellcasting classes and partly on your individual levels in those classes. Once you have the Spellcasting feature from more than one class, use the rules below. If you multiclass but have the Spellcasting feature from only one class, you follow the rules as described in that class."


The War Caster feat uses the following wording:
"Prerequisite: The ability to cast at least one spell"

The Eldritch Adept feat uses the wording:
"Prerequisite: Spellcasting or Pact Magic feature"

Since they COULD have chosen to word the prerequisite the SAME as War Caster and thus include the ability to cast a spell from any source (race, class, feat) - the fact that they chose NOT to do so is meaningful. They do not mean spellcasting as an ability to cast a spell in this context - they specifically mean the "Spellcasting feature" otherwise they would word the prerequisite the same as War Caster which covers all the other cases.

Anyway, bottom line, as always is to ask your DM. RAW, Eldritch Adept requires the Spellcasting class feature but DMs are free to run their game however they like.

[Foxydono]

It is just the way a compound clause is formed in English.

"Prerequisite: Spellcasting or Pact Magic feature."

is the same as

"Prerequisite: Spellcasting feature or Pact Magic feature."

The "Spellcasting feature" is not the same as the ability to cast a spell.

You are trying to read it as "Spellcasting" or "Pact Magic feature". However, what does "Spellcasting" mean in the 5e rules?

If you look in the PHB there is a specific feature called "Spellcasting". Sub-headings in this section include "Spellcasting ability". Having a spellcasting ability does not mean a character has the Spellcasting feature. The "Spellcasting" heading in the PHB is a definition of what "Spellcasting" specifically means in the D&D 5e rules. Google may have a different definition.

The class features table with spells known and slots available include "Spellcasting" in the table for classes that receive that ability.

"Spellcasting" in 5e means one specific ability - while "spellcasting" is the process of casting spells.

Eldritch Knight and Arcane Trickster Rogue both have sections titled "Spellcasting".

5e differentiates between Spellcasting (the feature) and the general rules on spellcasting (which are described in chapter 10). The shadow monk and the 4 elements monk for example have the ability to cast spells using the rules on spellcasting but do NOT have Spellcasting as a feature.

Paladins and Rangers DO have Spellcasting.

The multiclassing rules have a good example of why this can be confusing:

"SPELLCASTING
Your capacity for spellcasting depends partly on your combined levels in all your spellcasting classes and partly on your individual levels in those classes. Once you have the Spellcasting feature from more than one class, use the rules below. If you multiclass but have the Spellcasting feature from only one class, you follow the rules as described in that class."


The War Caster feat uses the following wording:
"Prerequisite: The ability to cast at least one spell"

The Eldritch Adept feat uses the wording:
"Prerequisite: Spellcasting or Pact Magic feature"

Since they COULD have chosen to word the prerequisite the SAME as War Caster and thus include the ability to cast a spell from any source (race, class, feat) - the fact that they chose NOT to do so is meaningful. They do not mean spellcasting as an ability to cast a spell in this context - they specifically mean the "Spellcasting feature" otherwise they would word the prerequisite the same as War Caster which covers all the other cases.

Anyway, bottom line, as always is to ask your DM. RAW, Eldritch Adept requires the Spellcasting class feature but DMs are free to run their game however they like.
I did a bit of searching in the PHB and found this sentence: "If you have both the Spellcasting class feature and the Pact Magic class feature from the warlock class"

I'll concede this is enough to justify your reading of the Eldrich Adept feat, sadly :(
I still find it very vague, as I see spellcasting as a race feature just a much as a class feature. But as there is no mention of a race feature named spellcasting, I don't have much ground to stand on :)

[Joe the Rat]

I still find it very vague, as I see spellcasting as a race feature just a much as a class feature. But as there is no mention of a race feature named spellcasting, I don't have much ground to stand on :)

They have been really particular about not calling innate racial magic "Spellcasting." But if you can find a racial feature simply named "Spellcasting" (or Pact Magic, but that one would be really unlikely), I say take it and run with it.

[Segev]

I will also submit that you could, if you want the feat, talk to your DM about waiving the prerequisite. I honestly don't understand why it's there, since the restriction on requiring Warlock levels to take any Invocations with any prerequisites at all pretty well limits it, anyway.

[RogueJK]

They have been really particular about not calling innate racial magic "Spellcasting." But if you can find a racial feature simply named "Spellcasting" (or Pact Magic, but that one would be really unlikely), I say take it and run with it.

Yeah, there's no racial "Spellcasting" feature. All of the racial abilities that grant the ability to cast spells are called something entirely different. There's only one that's close... Yuan Ti Purebloods get racial "Innate Spellcasting".