Is Polymorph really possible on ????? (DESCENT INTO AVERNUS SPOILERS)

[DaFlipp]

First, just to be clear - I haven't read the book, and our group is only doing a very truncated, modified version of Descent into Avernus, so I don't know how much the DM may have shifted things around.

That said, HERE THERE BE SPOILERS!

Our group just (like, session wrapped a few minutes ago) defeated the Demon Lord Yeenoghu... by Polymorphing him into a rabbit.

Now, first of all, I'm well aware that Polymorph doesn't actually kill a creature, just kinda puts it on time-out for an hour (or less if you decide to strike first). I'm also aware that we didn't *really* defeat Yeenoghu because it was some kind of vision/test rather than an actual pitched battle (which we passed once we short-circuited the Demon Lord's rampage via rabbitification).

But the session still ground to a halt for a bit as the DM grappled with the fact that, mechanically, it appeared that a Legendary Resistance-exhausted Yeenoghu (Prince of Gnolls, Lord of Savagery, Ruler of Ruin, Beast of Butchery, etc.) could, in fact, be turned into a widdle biddy bunny wabbit by an 11th level Druid, even temporarily, which is quite at odds with the degree of EPIC POWER Demon Lords are supposed to wield per D&D lore.

So I was curious - did our group overlook something? Is there some aspect to the Yeenoghu statblock, or even to the Polymorph spell itself, that should have decreed this wouldn't work (apart from Legendary Resistance, which, as noted, we'd forced him to burn through)? Or do the rules as written really allow this to take place?

Regardless, this should make a fun D&D anecdote for the future!

[BerzerkerUnit]

Looking at the statblock from OotA, you didn’t miss anything, it can be morphed without issue other than the +14 wisdom save and advantage on saves vs spells making failure an improbability.

I’m surprised snail wasn’t the preferred form and Disintegrate wasn’t the immediate follow up.

[DaFlipp]

Looking at the statblock from OotA, you didn’t miss anything, it can be morphed without issue other than the +14 wisdom save and advantage on saves vs spells making failure an improbability.

I’m surprised snail wasn’t the preferred form and Disintegrate wasn’t the immediate follow up.

Wait, does Disintegrate's "turn to dust at 0 HP" kick in before Polymorph's "turn back to normal at 0 HP"? Or did you just mean it'd make for a really easy hit?

Either way, our party didn't actually have access to Disintegrate - the only one who could theoretically learn it is our Sorcerer, and she took Mental Prison for her 6th level spell (which came in *very* handy against the Hezrou earlier in that combat sequence).

[Eldariel]

Wait, does Disintegrate's "turn to dust at 0 HP" kick in before Polymorph's "turn back to normal at 0 HP"? Or did you just mean it'd make for a really easy hit?

Either way, our party didn't actually have access to Disintegrate - the only one who could theoretically learn it is our Sorcerer, and she took Mental Prison for her 6th level spell (which came in *very* handy against the Hezrou earlier in that combat sequence).

It got erratad to not work. It used to. Power Word: Kill works though.

[Unoriginal]

First, just to be clear - I haven't read the book, and our group is only doing a very truncated, modified version of Descent into Avernus, so I don't know how much the DM may have shifted things around.

That said, HERE THERE BE SPOILERS!

Our group just (like, session wrapped a few minutes ago) defeated the Demon Lord Yeenoghu... by Polymorphing him into a rabbit.

Now, first of all, I'm well aware that Polymorph doesn't actually kill a creature, just kinda puts it on time-out for an hour (or less if you decide to strike first). I'm also aware that we didn't *really* defeat Yeenoghu because it was some kind of vision/test rather than an actual pitched battle (which we passed once we short-circuited the Demon Lord's rampage via rabbitification).

But the session still ground to a halt for a bit as the DM grappled with the fact that, mechanically, it appeared that a Legendary Resistance-exhausted Yeenoghu (Prince of Gnolls, Lord of Savagery, Ruler of Ruin, Beast of Butchery, etc.) could, in fact, be turned into a widdle biddy bunny wabbit by an 11th level Druid, even temporarily, which is quite at odds with the degree of EPIC POWER Demon Lords are supposed to wield per D&D lore.

So I was curious - did our group overlook something? Is there some aspect to the Yeenoghu statblock, or even to the Polymorph spell itself, that should have decreed this wouldn't work (apart from Legendary Resistance, which, as noted, we'd forced him to burn through)? Or do the rules as written really allow this to take place?

Regardless, this should make a fun D&D anecdote for the future!


Three facts that are important to note:

1) Yeenoghu, even without Legendary Resistances, still have +14 to WIS save AND Magical Resistance, meaning that a Polymorph cast by a lvl 11 PC is not likely to land.

2) While Polymorph affects one's mental stats, it doesn't affect their personality. IMO even with 2 INT, 11 WIS is enough for the Lord of Savagery to do the "gnaw your own paws to escape" thing many animals do and as such destroy the Polymorph the next round.

3) Yes, Demon Princes wield incredible powers, but that doesn't mean it's all "statblock power".

For example: Yeenoghu can turn a Gnoll into a Fang of Yeenoghu, and create Gnoll Witherlings appear and obey the pack. That doesn't mean he can just do that in the context of a fight.

[Keravath]

I think you were just incredibly lucky :)

A level 11 druid with 20 wisdom has a spell DC of 17.

Yeenoghu has +14 on wisdom saves AND magic resistance which gives him advantage on such saves. This means that in order to fail the DM has to roll 2 or less on both d20s for the save. That only happens 1/100 times the dice are rolled.

Also, as pointed out, there is a decent chance that the bunny might choose to bite itself thereby ending the polymorph spell so it is often better to choose a form without teeth that can't harm itself. :) (However, this depends on how your DM interprets the polymorph spell and what aspects of the creature are retained in the new form).

P.S. The easiest spell to use on Yeenoghu would appear to be Banishment (which the sorcerer might have). It is a charisma save and Yeenoghu only has a +2 ... so even with magic resistance it stands a decent chance of failing.

[Chronos]

Quoth Eldariel:

It got erratad to not work. It used to. Power Word: Kill works though.
Of course, PWK is also a ninth-level spell.

Finishing off a polymorphed creature just might be the one and only valid use for Holy Word. Unlike PWK, it offers a save, but that's probably pretty low for a polymorphed creature (especially if you choose the creature to be one with a poor save).

[PattThe]

Sure, go for it. Yeenoghu is a punk loser and the weakest of the published demon lords. Also, if you can put you know who in a you know what from another campaign module as a main mechanic, then sure, put the doggo in a tiny plush prison of fluff. Unless older editions stated specifically that the Demon Lords of the Abyss have immunity to polymorph and not just a 95% magic resistance, then there shouldn't be a problem aside from the fact that Yeenoghu should be covered in gnolls and flinds and otherwise which should be able to bonk him back to normal pretty quickly with suicidal charges. But yeah. D&D is full of low level characters finding powerful legendary artifacts, always has been. If you can get a divination wizard in the party with someone using Mind Sliver to proc the polymorph right when the duration is about to end and land perfect polymorphs on a magic resistance demon for an entire day, why not create the lovely memory of spending time cuddling a little bunny demon lord that's furiously trying to murder you all?

Honestly, I want someone to get a true polymorph scroll on Yeenoghu and turn him into a hyena or canine and then someone slaps the pupper with a buffed-into-the-thirties Animal Handling check, squishing the leg and making it sit. Romping around Avernus with that floating elephant thing and a doggo best friend? Sounds on brand all things considered, get a side-car on your demon-fueled death motorbike for your doggo. That said, I have no idea the context in the adventure where you'd run into the Y boy, but I recall his weapons being mentioned in the appendix.