Silly Race Templating Case - Ruling?

[Phhase]

So I was looking at the Dhampir race, and I saw the note about being able to use it as a lineage, replacing most of another race's tratis with its own, and I immediately had the thought any rational entity would have. That being to apply Dhampir as a lineage to one of the few races for whom the concept of "lineage" as presented makes a bit less sense: Warforged.

So how the hell do you rule that? It's an interesting thought. After all, all of a Warforged's attributes are deliberate consequences of construction, not traits passed down through the genome of a biological progenitor. Sure, design schema may be based on earlier versions, but it's entirely possible to simply start from scratch or make radical revisions if one wishes, original schema be damned.

So as I see it, there are two options, both entertaining in their own ways:

1) The result inherits more of the Warforged race's traits than it normally would. The result is a ferocious, powerful hunter machine that is literally fueled with blood. More powerful than it likely ought to be, but hey.

2) Fully embrace the jank and use RAW. The result is a horrific fusion of flesh and metal that drains its enemies for food rather than fuel. Resembling no race mechanical nor biological, plates of metal and tubes of fluid are rudely grafted to, among, and through organs and muscles of a design all their own. Sort of like a Blood Golem of Hextor crossed with a Vivisector (if you're knowledgeable in the area of obscure 3.5 monsters)

[JackPhoenix]

There's the 3rd option: You can't combine them, because it doesn't make sense.

[Kvess]

It’d definitely lean towards making Option 2 something like an Eva — an attempt to restrain and control monstrous biology through technology. Maybe an early precursor to true Warforged; a failed experiment sealed away and forgotten.

[Phhase]

There's the 3rd option: You can't combine them, because it doesn't make sense.

Well yes, but that that's no fun and it implicitly implies that Warforged is being thrown by the wayside as per usual. I don't wanna do that because goddamnit robots are cool and even if WOTC somehow doesn't agree oh well.

[Witty Username]

By RAW, turning another race into a Dhampir is a possibility during play, not a character creation option. I would personally not allow it at all, but I like the idea of the war forged becoming mostly humanoid, like they gradually grow over there mechanical body to become a skeleton, and then are a generic mostly vampiric creature, probably without hair.

[Wizard_Lizard]

Well it's honestly a very interesting concept, perhaps you may use one of the 'dhampir hungers' that aren't bloodlust? Like they drain the very colour from things instead? If you want to make it more whacky, give them an aberrant mark too lol.

[Millstone85]

Indeed, it is difficult to find any connection between vampirism and a creature made of metal, stone and wood.


Behold the legacy of Gulthias the vampire: plants with a taste for blood.Well, would you look at that! Yes, according to the MM entry on blights, when the blood of a powerful vampire soaks into the wooden stake that slayed it, it can create a tree that animates the local flora with malicious intent.

So what if someone made a warforged out of a Gulthias tree?

[Seekergeek]

So what if someone made a warforged out of a Gulthias tree?

This is what I was all geared up to suggest, and I think it is a fantastic idea. Stones repurposed from the vampire’s sarcophagus; Gulthais tree harvested for the wood; holy symbols melted down for the metal. Sounds fun. Consider the concept Shanghai’d for my backup character!

[Phhase]

By RAW, turning another race into a Dhampir is a possibility during play, not a character creation option. I would personally not allow it at all, but I like the idea of the war forged becoming mostly humanoid, like they gradually grow over there mechanical body to become a skeleton, and then are a generic mostly vampiric creature, probably without hair.

Dhampir is a race/lineage option on page 16 in the new Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft supplement, explicitly under the heading of Character Creation. Where are you getting your source?

[Reach Weapon]

By RAW, turning another race into a Dhampir is a possibility during play, not a character creation option.
Dhampir is a race/lineage option on page 16 in the new Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft supplement, explicitly under the heading of Character Creation. Where are you getting your source?
I can't speak for Witty Username, but it's my understanding that provision is from the source you just quoted, under "Ancestral Legacy", if not additional places.

[RogueJK]

By RAW, turning another race into a Dhampir is a possibility during play, not a character creation option.

Dhampir is specifically an option at character creation too.

Under "Lineages" at the beginning of that section, it states:

"A character might choose a lineage during character creation, their transformation having occurred before play begins. Or, events might unfold during adventures that lead your character to replacing their race with this new lineage."

[Reach Weapon]

"A character might choose a lineage during character creation, their transformation having occurred before play begins. Or, events might unfold during adventures that lead your character to replacing their race with this new lineage."
dndbeyond.com says "Van Richten’s Guide to Ravenloft introduces all-new character creation options, including lineages. These can be used in place of a race at character creation or can replace your existing player character’s race mid-campaign."

Ancestral Legacy
If you replace a race with this lineage, you can keep the following elements of that race: any skill proficiencies you gained from it and any climbing, flying, or swimming speed you gained from it.
If you don’t keep any of those elements or you choose this lineage at character creation, you gain proficiency in two skills of your choice.
I don't know how to interpret that as anything short of no specific race when selected at character creation, just two proficiencies.

[Witty Username]

Yeah that.
You can be a Dhampir from the get go, but you won't have a "base" race unless you become a Dhampir during play. At least by RAW.

[Mastikator]

I think there are some facts that could allow you to make a Dhampir warforged.


All warforged contain living parts, not just living plant matter but also blood like alchemical substance inside them. (and probably synthetic organs)
Dhampir hunger does not have to be blood, it can also be: flesh, cerebral spinal fluid, psychic energy, dreams, life energy
And Dhampir origins don't have to be "you are a vampire blaarg". One in particular is very relevant to Warforged: "A radical experiment changed your body, making you reliant on others for vital fluids."


So you have a Warforged Dhampir who needs to constantly replenish their internal alchemical bloodlike fluids with real blood. OR a Warforged Dhampir who needs to siphon off dreams or life energy or psychic energy. OR a Warforged Dhampir who needs to consume cerebral spinal fluid to keep their synthetic brain going.

By RAW a Warforged Dhampir wouldn't get any of the bonuses of a Warforged, so unlike a Warforged this Dhampir would still have to eat, drink and sleep. You're basically trading +1 AC (very awesome) and sentry rest for spider climb and vampire bite. IMO it might just be a downgrade

Edit-
Other possible origins for Dhampir I think makes sense are: "Your pact with a predatory deity, fiend, fey, or spirit causes you to share their hunger". (only if warlock with fey, undead or fiend patron) and "A parasite lives inside you. You indulge its hunger.". The others rely on you having parents, being born or infected with a disease which make no sense for a Warforged.

You could also be a Warforged Reborn depending on your origin:
"Stitches bind your body’s mismatched pieces, and your memories come from multiple different lives." (basically frankenstein's monster but using more plant matter than flesh)
"You awoke in an abandoned laboratory alongside complex designs for clockwork organs. " Possibly made from other Warforged

I really like the openness of the flavor for both these races, you can do some whacky things that still make sense :smallcool:

[Kane0]

I like the concept of 1, a warforged that runs on blood.

[nickl_2000]

Let me thrown an option 4 out there that is more interesting than the "don't allow it."

I personally think that a Wizard did it. They were created by an group of Necromancers and Artificers exiled (or were they?) from House Cannith for the insanity they were showing. This group decided that a Warforged made of wood, metal, and stone was not good enough. They wanted to see if they could enhance the Warforged further and make them out of flesh to blend into normal society. They were designed and trained as spies and assassins.

The original experiments with them were failures. The spark of life was created, but they rapidly degraded. The decaying and flesh falling from the metal bon structure. So, they pushed the limits even further. Instead of using the flesh of humanoids, they captured beings that could regenerate themselves. First they tried troll flesh, which turned out to be a step in the right directly. The flesh re-grew on the limbs and regenerated, but they were monsters. They didn't have the ability to reason, they just wanted to kill. These beasts were released into the Last War and used on the battlefield for much effect, raging and destroying all in their path.

However, this wasn't the goal. The madman pushed it further, needing a creature that was more intelligent and more coherient to get a true final result. They captured a vampire, holding them in a small dark cell constantly and completely surrounded by a sunlight spell to keep them in check. They harvested it's skin and sinew, feeding it enough blood to regenerate and remain its state of undeath. With a combination of alchemy and the necromantic arts, they bonded the harvested pieces to the metal skeleton, which immediately attached and started regenerating on their own to fill in the missing pieces. They made an army of fleshy warforged from the poor, tortured vampire on the next year. Collecting them, inactivated in the bowels of the cave complex they were working in.

Rumors of the experiments ranged through the nearby cities, stories told of the primal screams of the captive vampire and trolls. One day a group of adventurers investigated the rumors, hearing of the evil and wanting to make the area safe once again. They found the Necromancers and an epic battle ensued. During the battle, one of the adventurers loosed a mighty lightning bolt. The bolt passed through a group of Artificers, bouncing off the walls (it was an earlier edition, so sue me) into the depths of the caves. The bolt bounced endlessly, finally passing through the deactivated vampire warforged, giving them the power they needed to activated.

Hundreds of glowing eyes turned on in the darkness as this new breed of hyper intelligent warforged woke from their slumber. They stumbled through the darkness, finding their way up out of the cave. They found the looted remains of their creators, and felt the hunger at the sight of the blood. They fell on them, feasting on the blood of those that were left and found their way into the world. The experiment worked, they appeared as normal people and could blend into society. They were intelligent and crafty, but the hunger from the vampire used to create them remained.

[Joe the Rat]

Given the mechanics of the Ancestral Legacy (keep skill proficiencies and movement), there's not a lot of Warforged left.

Basically a Blood-Powered Steampunk Flesh Golem. You were never truly a Warforged, but you were built.