Discussion Thread: GitP Iron Chef-Style Character Builder Sheets

[mattie_p]

So I have freely released for public consumption a Google Sheets spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BG0-5sq4dL9Ooh7-QfXuyHzO4rXSz-CRcj29t6BeUVE/edit?usp=sharing) to help competitors in Iron Chef and Iron Chef-style (Appetizer E6, Zinc Saucier, Junkyard Wars, Villainous Competition, Monstrous Competition, etc) format and submit entries. Save a copy for yourself and feel free to use it!

Quick Summary of Features:

Uses the Standard Formatting Table for all similar competitions.
Optimized for Giant in the Playground Forum Tables.
Rows for Levels 1 - 20.
Optional Table for E6 entries.
Character Ability Scores (Including Level Ups and Templates).
Spells per Day Table - adaptable for Maneuvers, Soulmelds, Manifesting, or really anything similar. Several examples provided.
Skills - Change skill names up top, fill in the blanks for cross-class and skill points per level. Support for skill tricks.
Skills Error Checking - warns if your total assigned points exceeds your points earned at that level, and warns if a specific skill exceeds the maximum ranks allowed at a given level.
New: Reformatted skills in preparation for a way to allow judges to check skills.
Template included for posting build reveal table / judging scores / final results.


There's no reason you can't use it to build characters for things outside of these competitions either, just ignore the table formatting cells or hide the columns.

This is the discussion thread for suggestions, tips on how to use, requests for new features, etc. Thoughts? Not sure how to use it?

Credits
ciopo for some encouragement by example in making skill table easier to use
Thrice Dead Cat for skill tricks reminder

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Just in my own, admittedly brief, experience in using the last iteration of these spreadsheets, I found myself toying a lot with copying skills down to compare differences Int scores to see how low I could go and still meet various prestige class requirements.

I ended up doing something similar for spells per day and spells known, too. Personally, I found it easier to have both tables on the same tab, but that's just me.

Psionics could replace the "Extra Spells" column with "Power Points" and then your table would work well enough as a "Powers Known" option. I feel like binding, invocations, soulmelds, and maneuvers need more adjustments. Outside of Psionics, Martial Adepts probably are the next easiest to modify from your starting table. Multiclassing tends to complicate the process for them, but I don't think that's an insurmountable hurdle.

I'm just musing at the moment, but for Martial Adepts, I would probably replace the "Extra Spells" column with "Initiator Level" (and maybe copy it if/when I ever make a multiclass Martial Adept) and then chunk out the different disciplines instead of worrying about spells known/per day at each level. It'd also need "Total Maneuvers Known," "Maneuvers Readied," and "Stances Known" columns. The end goal is to have pretty much everything except the dreaded "Maneuvers Known" requirements for the different maneuvers.... I might fiddle with it myself later, now that I'm thinking about it.

[mattie_p]

Psionics could replace the "Extra Spells" column with "Power Points" and then your table would work well enough as a "Powers Known" option. I feel like binding, invocations, soulmelds, and maneuvers need more adjustments. Outside of Psionics, Martial Adepts probably are the next easiest to modify from your starting table. Multiclassing tends to complicate the process for them, but I don't think that's an insurmountable hurdle.

I'm just musing at the moment, but for Martial Adepts, I would probably replace the "Extra Spells" column with "Initiator Level" (and maybe copy it if/when I ever make a multiclass Martial Adept) and then chunk out the different disciplines instead of worrying about spells known/per day at each level. It'd also need "Total Maneuvers Known," "Maneuvers Readied," and "Stances Known" columns. The end goal is to have pretty much everything except the dreaded "Maneuvers Known" requirements for the different maneuvers.... I might fiddle with it myself later, now that I'm thinking about it.

So I don't know exactly how many people have used the spreadsheet yet, but I know there are several in the most recent Junkyard Wars, one even used the new skill table 24 hours after it was published. I'd be interested in real-world feedback on that. Obviously the skill table was the most recent focus of mine, as it really is a challenging portion of the table construction.

I haven't focused as much on the spell table, and I could probably enhance the instructions associated with that tab of the sheet. The point of the "spells" table isn't so much to use as-is, but to make it your own, depending on the character build. Below, I'll spoiler 3 different versions of that table, each one slightly different from each other, each of which I used in a recent competition. It's already public which ones are mine, so not telling tales out of school here.


Level Class Arcane 0th Arcane 1st Arcane 2nd ---- Divine 0th Divine 1st ---- Soulmelds (Incarnate) Soulmelds (Spinemeld) Essentia Chakra Binds
1st Changeling Rogue 1 - - - ---- - - ---- - - - -
2nd Duskblade 1 3 3 - ---- - - ---- - - - -
3rd Duskblade 2 4 4 - ---- - - ---- - - - -
4th Duskblade 3 5 5 - ---- - - ---- - - - -
5th Duskblade 4 6 6 - ---- - - ---- - - - -
6th Cloistered Cleric 1 6 6 - ---- 3 1+1 ---- - - - -
7th Warshaper 1 6 6 - ---- 3 1+1 ---- - - - -
8th Warshaper 2 6 6 - ---- 3 1+1 ---- - - - -
9th Incarnate 1 6 6 - ---- 3 1+1 ---- 2 - 1 0
10th Shaper of Form 1 6 6 3 ---- 3 1+1 ---- 2 - 1 0
11th Spinemeld Warrior 1 6 6 3 ---- 3 1+1 ---- 2 0 1 0
12th Spinemeld Warrior 2 6 6 3 ---- 3 1+1 ---- 2 0 2 0
13th Spinemeld Warrior 3 6 6 3 ---- 3 1+1 ---- 2 1 3 0
14th Spinemeld Warrior 4 6 6 3 ---- 3 1+1 ---- 2 1 4 0
15th Spinemeld Warrior 5 6 6 3 ---- 3 1+1 ---- 2 1 4 0
16th Spinemeld Warrior 6 6 6 3 ---- 3 1+1 ---- 2 1 5 0
17th Spinemeld Warrior 7 6 6 3 ---- 3 1+1 ---- 2 2 6 1
18th Spinemeld Warrior 8 6 6 3 ---- 3 1+1 ---- 2 2 7 1
19th Spinemeld Warrior 9 6 6 3 ---- 3 1+1 ---- 2 2 7 1
20th Spinemeld Warrior 10 6 6 3 ---- 3 1+1 ---- 2 2 8 1



Level Class Cleric 0th Cleric 1st Cleric 2nd --- Celebrant 1st (Known) Celebrant 2nd (Known) Celebrant 3rd (Known) Celebrant 4th (Known)
1st Cloistered Cleric 1 3 1+1 ---
2nd Cloistered Cleric 2 4 2+1 ---
3rd Cloistered Cleric 3 4 2+1 1+1 ---
4th Ranger 1 4 2+1 1+1 ---
5th Ranger 2 4 2+1 1+1 ---
6th Ranger 3 4 2+1 1+1 ---
7th Celebrant of Sharess 1 4 2+1 1+1 --- 0 (Charm Person, Hypnotism)
8th Celebrant of Sharess 2 4 2+1 1+1 --- 1 (Tasha's Hideous Laughter)
9th Celebrant of Sharess 3 4 2+1 1+1 --- 2 0 (Alter Self, Cat's Grace)
10th Ranger 4 4 2+1 1+1 --- 2 0
11th Beastmaster 1 4 2+1 1+1 --- 2 0
12th Wildrunner 1 4 2+1 1+1 --- 2 0
13th Celebrant of Sharess 4 4 2+1 1+1 --- 3 (Lesser Confusion) 1 (Heroism)
14th Arcane Hierophant 1 5 3+1 2+1 --- 3 2 0 (Good Hope, Charm Monster)
15th Celebrant of Sharess 5 5 3+1 2+1 --- 3 3 (Rage) 1 (Refreshment)
16th Celebrant of Sharess 6 5 3+1 2+1 --- 3 3 2 0 (Blinding Beauty, Rainbow Pattern)
17th Celebrant of Sharess 7 5 3+1 2+1 --- 3 3 3 (Confusion) 1 (Dominate Person)
18th Celebrant of Sharess 8 5 3+1 2+1 --- 3 3 3 2
19th Celebrant of Sharess 9 5 3+1 2+1 --- 3 3 3 3 (Hold Monster)
20th Celebrant of Sharess 10 5 3+1 2+1 --- 3 3 3 3


Level Class Bard 0th Celebrant of Sharess 1st Celebrant of Sharess 2nd Celebrant of Sharess 3rd Celebrant of Sharess 4th Sublime Chord 4th Sublime Chord 5th Sublime Chord 6th Sublime Chord 7th Sublime Chord 8th Sublime Chord 9th
1st Bard 1 2 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
2nd Celebrant of Sharess 1 2 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
3rd Celebrant of Sharess 2 2 1 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
4th Celebrant of Sharess 3 2 2 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
5th Celebrant of Sharess 4 2 3 1 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
6th Celebrant of Sharess 5 2 3 2 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- --
7th Celebrant of Sharess 6 2 3 3 1 -- -- -- -- -- -- --
8th Celebrant of Sharess 7 2 3 3 2 0 -- -- -- -- -- --
9th Celebrant of Sharess 8 2 3 3 3 1 -- -- -- -- -- --
10th Celebrant of Sharess 9 2 3 3 3 2 -- -- -- -- -- --
11th Celebrant of Sharess 10 2 3 3 3 3 -- -- -- -- -- --
12th Sublime Chord 1 2 3 3 3 3 2 1 -- -- -- --
13th Sublime Chord 2 2 3 3 3 3 2 2 -- -- -- --
14th Sublime Chord 3 2 3 3 3 3 3 2 1 -- -- --
15th Sublime Chord 4 2 3 3 3 3 3 3 2 -- -- --
16th Sublime Chord 5 2 3 3 3 3 3 3 2 1 -- --
17th Sublime Chord 6 2 3 3 3 3 4 3 3 2 -- --
18th Sublime Chord 7 2 3 3 3 3 4 4 3 2 1 --
19th Sublime Chord 8 2 3 3 3 3 4 4 3 3 2 --
20th Sublime Chord 9 2 3 3 3 3 4 4 4 3 2 1

Merely changing the title at the top of the table personalizes the table and allows the builder flexibility to make it their own. Adding or subtracting columns isn't too challenging, just insert or delete the columns from the middle of the tab, not from the left or right sides. You could even add or subtract rows, that's how I used the same sheet for a recent E6 entry.

Anyway, I can clarify the instructions for that sheet, especially as that tab, and pretty much every other tab other than the new skills sheet, has NO instructions.

Additional thoughts?

[mattie_p]

Based on your feedback, Thrice Dead Cat, I've added instructions for the level table and the subsystem table (spells per day). The subsystems gets a few examples included, one with more columns, one with fewer. Hopefully the additional options demonstrate the flexibility and allow for greater customization.

I also added a column on the skills table, allowing each competitor to enter the number of skill points they gain at each level, which they can then use for comparison with the skill points they assign at each level. The new column uses conditional formatting, such that if the number of skill points you assign at a given level exceeds the number of skill points attained at each level, the cell turns red at that level. This provides a warning system that you don't have enough skill points for what you are trying to do. (Make sure you quadruple at 1st level). Hopefully this helps as well.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

I very much appreciate the examples! It's a small thing, but it certainly helps me make sure that I doing things correctly. And you are right: it is fairly simple to copy and then either add or remove rows and/or columns. For example, I pretty much trimmed the table down to a single row to account for Maria's 1 bonus spell she gained as a 4th level Paladin.

I might play with the Initiator example table. I should really read up on the rules for multiclassed initiators first. I forget if you can mix and match which make you gained from one class and prepare them with another's "slots." My gut reaction is no, but it's honestly been too long since I got into those weeds.

If they have to be segregated, it wouldn't be too difficult to just copy the table down and have one for your Crusader levels and then another for your Warblade levels. That's little different than splitting out Arcane and Divine spells. If they’re intermingled, it's a little easier to keep it in one table. Prestige Classes complicate it either way, but that's neither here nor there.

At any rate, what you have currently is excellent. I honestly feel like I'm picking nits at this point and hope someone else throws in their two copper pieces.

[Paragon]

I have and still am using it. Thanks a lot mattie_p for this beautiful sheet !

As far as suggestions go, this is already saving me hours at the time so I wouldn't know how to improve it really... Maybe have a skill point counter to make sure you're in the clear ?
The user defines (2+Int, 4+Int, 6+Int, 8+Int) and which skills are cc and which are class skills and then you got your skill counter that tells you if you're math is right or not ?

[Paragon]

Ouhhhh it just hit me.

What would be golden would be to have a print function.

Hear me out.
You make up your build from 1 to 20. Then later on you select a level and click a print button that just gives you the sheet for the chosen level. Now THAT I would love (and have no clue if it's doable)

[Thrice Dead Cat]

One thing I just thought about, and very easily might have missed, but what about spending skills on skill tricks? I'm not saying there needs to be a list of every single skill trick, but just having a column to throw in 2 points at a time could help (and shouldn't be too hard to add after the fact by the end user, if need be).

Similarly, I think it's best to make the user add in their skill points per level. Things like Able Learner, Nymph's Kiss, and Open Minded mean you could have a level where you gain 7+Int skill points or are putting in ranks in a cross class skill at the class skill price.

Those are all niche cases, though. As an aside, would throwing in a -X skill points in a dummy column help with Able Learner?

[mattie_p]

I have and still am using it. Thanks a lot mattie_p for this beautiful sheet !

As far as suggestions go, this is already saving me hours at the time so I wouldn't know how to improve it really... Maybe have a skill point counter to make sure you're in the clear ?
The user defines (2+Int, 4+Int, 6+Int, 8+Int) and which skills are cc and which are class skills and then you got your skill counter that tells you if you're math is right or not ?

So you may have missed it, but there's a new column where you can enter in the skill points earned at each level, and it automatically sums the skill points that you spend at each level. The columns change to red if you spend more than you earn.


One thing I just thought about, and very easily might have missed, but what about spending skills on skill tricks? I'm not saying there needs to be a list of every single skill trick, but just having a column to throw in 2 points at a time could help (and shouldn't be too hard to add after the fact by the end user, if need be).

Similarly, I think it's best to make the user add in their skill points per level. Things like Able Learner, Nymph's Kiss, and Open Minded mean you could have a level where you gain 7+Int skill points or are putting in ranks in a cross class skill at the class skill price.

Those are all niche cases, though. As an aside, would throwing in a -X skill points in a dummy column help with Able Learner?

For able learner, it may be easiest to assume that the class skill isn't cross class. That's how I would do it. Just ensure you don't go over your max ranks. If someone has a better idea, I'm open to it.

I ... forgot about skill tricks. It helps that you can only learn one per level, so I might be able to make that work. There's a couple of prestige classes that earn bonus tricks, allowing a character to exceed that maximum, but I think I can exclude those for now.

I believe I have a way to add this option in, let me play around with it and test on my private sheet first.

Edit: Skill Tricks are in. 1 per level (Max). They get added to the end of the skills list. It auto-deducts 2 skill points per level when you add a skill trick at a given level. Let me know.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

When I used it for the Junkyard comp, I noticed that for skills some of the rows' "total spent" were based on ranks and some were based on skill points (specifically, rows 14, 16, and 18-23 were giving values one too small)... but that appears to be fixed, so what am I even on about.

Thanks again for the great resource!

[mattie_p]

Another quick update, I've been picking some low-hanging fruit today. If you exceed the skill cap for your level / hit dice, it will warn you by turning the skill points red at the level(s) where you exceed. Because under some circumstances this is legal (Primary Contact), it will let you do this, so the red is a warning not a prevention measure.


When I used it for the Junkyard comp, I noticed that for skills some of the rows' "total spent" were based on ranks and some were based on skill points (specifically, rows 14, 16, and 18-23 were giving values one too small)... but that appears to be fixed, so what am I even on about.

Thanks again for the great resource!

That was probably a copy/paste error in the functions which seems to have corrected itself, probably when I made some minor update. But glad it's helpful.


Ouhhhh it just hit me.

What would be golden would be to have a print function.

Hear me out.
You make up your build from 1 to 20. Then later on you select a level and click a print button that just gives you the sheet for the chosen level. Now THAT I would love (and have no clue if it's doable)

So ... I saw this and I'm not ignoring it, but it's not exactly low-hanging fruit. I could probably (eventually) build a separate sheet with a stat-block builder that vaguely resembles a character sheet. At the top you could put in a level (from 1-20) and it would populate the blocks below using the character at that level. Would certainly take some time. If anyone wants to collaborate on something like this I'd be open to it.

[loky1109]

Needs "Total" in Ability Score.

[daremetoidareyo]

I’ve been toying with this, I still haven’t broken out of my comfortable copy paste copy paste delete some method as the learning curve is slowing me down.

But I do have an out there suggestion: a sources column on the far right the sheet that doesn’t get calculated into the main spreadsheet but will format a sources table for you to copy and paste.

[mattie_p]

I've made a couple of tweaks to the skill table entry. At the start of the block of text for each level, I put the number of skill points that the user assigned at a given level. For now, this should provide the judges a little easier time in error-checking an entry. I also changed the location and formatting of newly assigned skill points.

Old Format: Disable Device (+4) 4;

New Format: 4: {+4} Disable Device: 4;

The curly braces should stand out from the skill name, I hope. And I plan to use that for a further optimization for judges. More on that as it develops.

I've become aware that people are using this to build characters for things other than Iron-Chef style comps, which is just fine by me. I do that too! So I'm branching the skills table to account for that.

Skills V1 contains no BBCode.
Formatted Skills will contain BBCode highlighting.

Still only support for 13 unique skills + 1 skill trick per level. If there's demand for additional then please let me know. I'm working on a factotum for personal use that might indeed need more columns anyway so you might get it as a freebie.

Thoughts - please let me know!





EDIT: Had more time today than I expected, or the second part of what I was working on I picked up easier than I thought. I have a new tab just for judges. Judges should be able to copy the whole build table into the sheet and have it essentially reverse-engineer what the entry looked like. It's a little janky but it works. It is only compatible with the entries submitted using the newest version of this sheet.

PLEASE let me know how it works! I'm excited for these changes and hope you are too!

[Saintheart]

Well, I can't speak for the newest-newest changes to the sheet, but I came into the sheet as a newbie to Iron Chef as well as the sheet itself. And I'm really pleased with how useful it was! I found the skills table sort-of taught you how to fill it out, which was solid, but it otherwise made it really easy to track your skills and spent points. Thanks for making this resource available, it really made the character building process a lot easier, and I've got a feeling I'll be using it for other purposes too.

One suggestion, optional extra, not essential: maybe a column in the Ability Scores table that updates the ability score total across 20 levels? Sure, I can add up numbers, but I am lazy :D

[mattie_p]

One suggestion, optional extra, not essential: maybe a column in the Ability Scores table that updates the ability score total across 20 levels? Sure, I can add up numbers, but I am lazy :D

I'm actually working on something for this. Because acquired templates can be arbitrarily added at any level, and some classes provide ability score bonuses, I'm finding the standard table insufficient as well.

Look for something like this in the near future. I'll be trying to incorporate all aspects of character building into essentially a character sheet or creature stat block,where the user selects the desired level and it pulls automatically from the rest of the sheets and combines everything into a single page. But that's still to come.

[mattie_p]

Team, I made a couple of updates to the original spreadsheet today. If you have a work in progress and don't want to update everything, the primary change that might concern you is I added support for another 7 individual skills (now up to 20 + a group for skill tricks).

I've also added something for Ability Scores level by level. Just add the changes at each level and it does the sums for you. Eventually plan on using this to build a stat-block by level.

Finally, there's a readme page with some administrative data there.

Happy constructing!

[daremetoidareyo]

I’ll check it out on the next contest

[mattie_p]

Fans of the sheet. Newest version released today. All the changes were in the skills page, but what a change!

For those skillful characters out there, I increased the number of total skills supported in the table from 20 to 30, in case you're doing something odd.

I've added a cell with a drop-down for the ability mod used for that skill. Additionally, there's a new column in the skills table, specially marked for use outside of competitions. It will calculate the sum of your ranks + your ability mod, level by level, for every skill you list ranks in. This is very useful for an NPC statblock or something like that. It does require the use of the stat sheet within the same spreadsheet but hopefully you all can figure it out.

Let me know if you have questions or comments!

Until next update ....

[H_H_F_F]

Thank you for your work, mattie_p. Always appreciated.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

^ Ditto. The skills in particular remain a lifesaver.

[Saintheart]

Also ditto. This just makes it so painless.