MultiClass Warlock Pact

[Chalkarts]

I'm working on a build that would require the DM to take the ride with me and I wanted to bother you all for advice.

I'm planning a Multiclass Rogue/Warlock
I will play rogue to 3rd for Arcane Trickster and the Mage Hand Legerdemain. Then RP his meeting and dealing with a Patron to switch to Warlock. I'm liking Genie as a Patron but Fey is nice as well. He will still be a thief. He will fulfill every role that a thief can fill as well as being decent magical support and ranged fire.
My difficulty is in which pact to choose.
I know I don't want Blade, he's just not that kind of character.
But Both Tome and Chain have their benefits for this build.
Tome would give me more magical versatility,
but chain will give me an intelligent familiar for scouting and thieving.

Any suggestions from the group?

[Slipjig]

Well, don't with the genie and the familiar combination unless you are willing to take a LOT of Aladdin jokes. Thouvh you could always lean into it by having the familiar be a monkey.

[Fredaintdead]

Well, as a Rogue there's something to be said for using Chain to get an Imp. Keep the Imp invisible while it uses the Help action (it's invisible until attacks or loses concentration, so using Help and staying invisible is RAW at least) so you've got Sneak Attack on anything you want with minimal risk to the familiar (they could take a swing at the invisible target, but hey, that's at least a worse action for them than swinging at anyone else in your group). Plus, all the other benefits that come with an invisible flying familiar.

[Joe the Rat]

For the scouting side of things, Chain is going to be hard to beat. Tome can get a familiar by spending an invocation, but yours will still be better (unlimited range telepathy, for starters). Plus it gives you a roleplay buddy.

Blade can work for you if you want to play to the blades in the dark side of things... or be a back ranks shooter. Improved pact weapon will let you manifest a ranged weapon, which with the right circumstances can let you keep using that 2d6 sneak attack. This approach backs away from the eldritch blast spamming, which will give you a little room in your invocations to play.

Tome will, hands down, add the most utility. There are some... unique tricks outside of the Book of Ancient Secrets. The value drops some if you have a Wizard or Artificer in play.

I'm just exploring Talisman, but it works best as a buddy booster, particularly on a partial rogue where there isn't much you really need to succeed at that you don't at least have proficiency. You need at least one talisman Invocation to make it really worthwhile.

Feylock will feed more into being tricksy - almost an extension of the Arcane Trickster. Genilock adds a little punch and gives you a great place to stash things you don't need on a daily basis, but is otherwise rather variable: Daolock and Marilock make terrain messy, Djinlock has some control effects, and Efreelock is straight up extra blasty.

[Kvess]

As a thief, it’s hard to go wrong with the genie patron. You immediately gain access to a large extradimensional space that you can disappear into and use to stash items that you’ve stolen. Genie’s wrath will stack with your attack rolls.

I am currently playing a tomelock with a genie patron in an Out of the Abyss game, but for a rogue multiclass I would strongly recommend the chain pact, especially if you want a reliable source of advantage for sneak attack. I would also recommend either taking Mask of Many Faces or Misty Visions, which give you considerably more options during scouting and infiltration.

[Keravath]

Are you planning on more rogue or more warlock? From a story perspective it could go anywhere from 17 rogue/3 warlock to 3 rogue/17 warlock - the characters are very different though. If you want to play into the magical thief concept then AT rogue has a lot of good features and you could go with 15 rogue/5 warlock or something similar at the end. The advantage to rogue/warlock is that it will play reasonably well with most combinations through the lower levels.

Also, keep in mind that as an AT rogue, you can pick up the find familiar spell at level 3 so if you want a familiar it doesn't have to be from warlock.

Finally, the prevalence on magic weapons and whether the rogue side and sneak attack are important to you. If you only ever go 3 levels in rogue then you are probably boosting charisma more than dex for your spellcasting since your sneak attack won't increase and you'd probably rely on Agonizing blast for damage.

On the other hand, if you lean into rogue then going with blade pact gives you the improved pact weapon invocation which will give you any +1 weapon you like (and proficiency with it) and it includes long bows and heavy crossbows if you want to be a ranged rogue. Use your abilities like help action from a familiar, hide bonus action, (faerie fire if you choose fae warlock), steady aim bonus action, to try to guarantee yourself advantage on every attack which by itself enables sneak attack. If you go to level 5 warlock you can pick up thirsting blade for two attacks during the attack action which gives you more opportunity to land sneak attack.

Anyway, it is a fun combination :) ... lots of ways to mix and match it :)

[Petelo4f]

Arcane Trickster Daolock is awesome. Honestly a 1 level dip is all you need. Get the bludgeoning damage to 1 attack and take the crusher feat at some point. Then hit the enemy with a Booming Blade either gotten via Arcane Trickster or your Warlock Cantrips. The enemy is now slid away from you and booming bladed, so if they want to close they have to move taking additional damage. And since they have been slid away, often you don't have to worry about using your bonus action on disengaging, you could instead use it to dash or hide for even more fun.


If you did go level 3 warlock, I would take pact of the chain. The main reason being to be able to abuse Darkness/Devil's Sight for both you and your (Imp) familiar. Talk with your DM about how they read "Voice of the Chainmaster," but if they consider it to always be on, you don't have to worry about taking Devil's Sight yourself since you can use your Imp's senses in combat. Investment of the Chain Master would let your familiar attack as well and give it some more movement options, which is super nice on an invisible scout.

[Sorinth]

Any class can steal things so you still have to decide whether you are a Warlock with a Rogue dip or a Rogue with a Warlock dip or even a more balanced multiclass.


It's hard to beat a Sprite + Investment of the Chain Master so long as you actually have a good Warlock Spell DC. What are your stats like? Arcane Trickster/Warlock is MAD but some DMs let Warlock use Int instead of Cha, so it's worth asking if that's a possibility.

[Reach Weapon]

Arcane Trickster/Warlock is MAD but some DMs let Warlock use Int instead of Cha, so it's worth asking if that's a possibility
Last I checked, you can build a pretty solid catrip-1st level Arcane Trickster spellbook, without needing any Int. I'd probably stick a Cha/Dex ability focus myself.

[Chalkarts]

It's hard to beat a Sprite + Investment of the Chain Master so long as you actually have a good Warlock Spell DC. What are your stats like? Arcane Trickster/Warlock is MAD but some DMs let Warlock use Int instead of Cha, so it's worth asking if that's a possibility.

I was going to go with Cha/Dex heavy and lean it towards an infiltration/face type. Smoothtalk his way in, load up on goods and riches, then Irish goodbye the whole place. Avoid combat if possible, but if the group gets into some hairy situations, I was going to give him a lot of board control stuff, push/pull/pin type stuff.

[Sorinth]

I was going to go with Cha/Dex heavy and lean it towards an infiltration/face type. Smoothtalk his way in, load up on goods and riches, then Irish goodbye the whole place. Avoid combat if possible, but if the group gets into some hairy situations, I was going to give him a lot of board control stuff, push/pull/pin type stuff.

In that case I would probably focus on Warlock and only have Rogue as a dip. So focus on Cha, invest enough Dex to be decent and maybe boost it a bit at high levels only. For the Wizard spells, focus on things that don't require attacks or saves so Int can really be anything, I'd probably put it 4th or 5th.

[Chalkarts]

In that case I would probably focus on Warlock and only have Rogue as a dip. So focus on Cha, invest enough Dex to be decent and maybe boost it a bit at high levels only. For the Wizard spells, focus on things that don't require attacks or saves so Int can really be anything, I'd probably put it 4th or 5th.

Oh, yeah, I should have mentioned, it was only goind to be the 3 rogue levels. The concept as a whole could be done as a pure Warlock, but I really wanted the super mage hand for him.

[Sorinth]

Then yeah I would go Genie (Dao) and Pact of the Chain taking the Sprite as the familiar. Choose a vessel that the Sprite can carry.

Ask the DM, but if your character steals something that once belonged to a powerful Dao that allows the Dao to communicate with the wearer/bearer that would be the hook for the warlock pact. The item can double as your vessel once the pact is made.

[Chalkarts]

Then yeah I would go Genie (Dao) and Pact of the Chain taking the Sprite as the familiar. Choose a vessel that the Sprite can carry.


Why Dao over Djinni?

[Sorinth]

Why Dao over Djinni?

You mentioned wanting to push/pull enemies around the battlefield. Dao gives you spike growth which is perfect for that strategy, and the bludgeoning damage works with the Crusher feat giving you even more movement control if you wanted it.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Arcane Trickster Daolock is awesome. Honestly a 1 level dip is all you need. Get the bludgeoning damage to 1 attack and take the crusher feat at some point. Then hit the enemy with a Booming Blade either gotten via Arcane Trickster or your Warlock Cantrips. The enemy is now slid away from you and booming bladed, so if they want to close they have to move taking additional damage. And since they have been slid away, often you don't have to worry about using your bonus action on disengaging, you could instead use it to dash or hide for even more fun.

I'm afraid that your combo doesn't work. For the extra damage from booming blade to trigger, they need to move willingly. Something like dissonant whispers would trigger it, but the Crusher feat would not.

[PhantomSoul]

I'm afraid that your combo doesn't work. For the extra damage from booming blade to trigger, they need to move willingly. Something like dissonant whispers would trigger it, but the Crusher feat would not.

Them (Willingly) Moving back within Reach of you is what triggers the damage, rather than the Forced Movement from Crusher in this strategy.