Need help making a rival crew for the party

[Chimora]

currently thinking a dread necromancer leading them, with a fighter and bard as lackeys. Players are a dragon shaman elf, a duskblade dwarf, and a player who hasn't sent me their sheet yet, so they're a fun little wildcard. I believe our wildcard plans on playing some kind of party face, but not 100% sure. I've allowed any tricks or material the players could find that isn't homebrew, so any little tricks you can think of to boost up the rival party is much appreciated. currently the dread necromancer is also a lich who keeps blacksand in their boots. Bard will be taking Requiem and dragonfire to boost up undead, but I've never played a bard or fighter so any optimization help would be really helpful, or alternate class recommendations.

[Xervous]

Fighter is a two level class at most. What is it you want the character to do? If anything RAW is on the table this is 3.5 and things WILL get degenerate. Describe your desired optimization range and the playground will help you hit it.

Dragonfire inspiration Bard may be excessive, it can add a considerable amount of damage that might be outside your players’ optimization band.

[Kuulvheysoon]

I was going to ask what level of optimization you expect out of your players. You've given them access to all sources, sure, but that doesn't mean that they'll use them. The dragon Shaman, for instance, isn't too high of tier of base class though the duskblade is pretty solid.

But are they DFA optimization and straight up low-level DN lich with black sand abuse optimized?

[Chimora]

I mean, I've been trying to help them optimize as well, along with rerolls until level 5 in the event they wish to change characters, but along with all that these groups should be rivals, not enemies. if the players try to fight them that's one thing, but until later on they should just be a group they run into every once in a while, maybe hear stories about the adventures said group is going on in taverns, eventually decide to take them out if I end up having lich try to rule the world, and if they have a problem with lich ruling the world, which hopefully they will.

[Doctor Despair]

Consider giving the Dread Necromancer the Mother Cyst line of feats. Opens up a lot of options for you to have the rival party spy on the players, or communicate with/control the non-lich rival party members.

[Efrate]

DFI requim bard is decent if you have lots of minions which as a DN is pretty common. Using undead as meat shield to balance the duskblade might be okay, but something like a warblade/eternal blade might be a better fit.

[JoeNapalm]

What's your intent for the rival crew?

Is this a crew that will show up and poach their jobs? Reluctant team-ups? Toe-to-toe smackdowns?

Sounds like you're starting a new campaign, I'd strongly recommend any toe-to-toe action vs relatively equal adventuring crew be down the road a bit...unless you're okay with high body counts on the PC side.

Tactically, a DM has a huge advantage in that fight because their crew will fight with the Power of Teamwork(tm) whereas most PC crews need awhile to figure out how all their cogs mesh.


-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist

[Maat Mons]

The leader of the rival crew is a lich? You need caster level 11 to become a lich. If you're not starting the players off at level 11+, giving them a lich as a rival is going to make things a little lopsided.

Some possible 3-man teams:

Cleric, Druid, Wizard: All the best spell lists.
Cleric, Dread Necromancer, Wizard: All the flavors of necromancy.
Archivist, Wizard, Wu Jen: Spellbooks for everyone.
Ardent, Psion, Wilder: All the full manifesters.
Archivist, Psion, Wizard: Arcane magic, divine magic, and psionics all represented, all with an Int focus.

[Thurbane]

If your party is a Dwarf Duskblade and Elf Dragon Shaman, plus an unknown, I'm guessing your players aren't high-op types?

If you throw a group of optimized casters at them, it may be somewhat unfair.

When I create an "anti-party" for the PCs to face, I like to make them kind of distorted mirrors. So maybe Dread Necro (who seems to be set, and you don't know what player 3 is bringing), Hexblade, and DFA?

Or if you want a bit more optimized: DN, Warblade, and DFA.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Honestly, if your players are this unoptimized, it might be fun for you to take the opposite tact. Optimize the crap out of a OA/CW Samurai and Spellthief to pair with your DN? Keep yourself to T4 and below, if you can.

[Particle_Man]

Maybe an Assassin. "You see a figure in black. He pauses, just staring at you for 18 seconds. Then he attacks and misses." :smallsmile:

[Bonzai]

Oohh...

Some npc's I have used in the past might help...

CE human Bard 11/ Zhentarim Spy
Feats: deceitful, Lyrical spell, subsonic, Arcane Strike, Spell Focus: enchantment, improved Initiative
Important Item: Ring of Chameleon power

The main point behind the Zhent Spy was the cover identity. It could be some one famous, or a close and trusted friend of the party. This build is designed to be sneaky, using his ring and abilities to take on disguises. Using his enchantments to make others do his dirty work for him . If he has to fight, he backs it up with Arcane strike enhanced spells.

This character can be your Necromancer's subtle tool. A spy, double agent, and assassin. Random people can suddenly turn on the party, thanks to his enchantments, and they would never even know that he was there.

CE Unseelie Fey Hexblade 12/ Blackguard 3
Feats: power Attack, cleave, improved sunder, bind vestige, improved bind vestige (focalor), Brutal Strike
Alternative Class Feature

This is your "fighter". With your Dark Companion, Focalor, aura of despair, and unseelie Fey Aura you get a persistent -6 +Cha bonus to saves, -2 attack, -2 ac, and -2 skills aura against anyone adjacent to him. You can then apply your hexblade curse for another -4 penalty to saves, and power Attack with brutal strike to make your opponent shakened for another-2 to saves and other things.

He is your melee muscle, but also he puts his opponents saves into the basement which let's the Bard and Necromancer tee off on them with their save or die/suck spells. He is also highly resistant with aura to unluck, Resistance, Mettle, and Dark Blessing (not including the debuffs on his opponents).

Hope these help.

[Bohandas]

I've got a party of three mid-level lowgrade ne'erdowells I statted up a while back and never got to use.

Statblocks and character descriptions in spoiler


A team of out-of-work adventurers of disreputable character, Warlock, Mimic, and Gorn Lord can be found almost anywhere, commiting middling crimes or abusively half-assing some odd job or another; whether selling magic items of dubious quality, ransacking and looting, creating magic items no-questions-asked, blackmailing more villainous ne’erdowells, abandoning the person who’s hired them as bodyguards, framing a random patsy when they tire of an investigation, or simply working at a local tavern and stealing from the till.

“Warlock”
HP 46 (13d6); Fiendish resiliance; DR 3/cold iron
Male Human Expert 1/Warlock 12
LE(LN) Meduim Humanoid (Human)
Init +0; Senses: Detect Magic; Listen +1, Spot +7
Languages: Comprehend Languages (written only); Common, Draconic, Dwarven, Infernal, Gnome
Resist: Fire 5, ????? 5
Fort +4 (0+4+0) Ref +4 (0+4+0) Wis +11 (2+8+1)
Speed: 30 feet, Fly 30 feet (good)
Ranged: Eldritch Hammer blast +9 (6d6)
Ranged: Brimstone blast +9 (6d6 fire plus ignition)
Base atk: +9
SA: Eldritch Blast, Invocations
SQ: Damage Reduction 3/cold iron, Detect Magic, Fiendish Resiliance, Imbue Item
Invocations:
Least- All-seeing Eyes, Beguiling Influence, Hammer Blast, Otherworldly Whispers
Lesser- Brimstone blast(?), Fell Flight
Greater- Dark Hand (See below)
Abilities: Str 11 Dex 11 Con 11 Int 18 Wis 12 Cha 10
Feats: Craft Wondrous Item, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Investigator, Jack of All Trades (CAdv), Magical Aptitude, Master of Knowledge (HoH)
Skills: Bluff +6 (6inv), Concentrate +2 (2sk), Craft (Alchemy) +20 (16skill+4int), Craft (blacksmithing) +17 (13sk+4int), Craft (Weaponsmithing) +16 (12sk+4int), Diplomacy +8 (6inv+2syn), Gather Information +2 (2feat), Heal +5 (4sk+1wis), Intimidate +7 (1sk+6inv), Knowledge (Arcana) +27 (16skill+4int+1feat+6inv), Knowledge (architecture) +5 (4int+1feat), Knowledge (Dungeoneering) +10 (5sk+4int+1feat), Knowledge (gepgraphy) +5 (4int+1feat), Knowledge (history) +5 (4int+1feat), Knowledge (local) +5 (4int+1feat), Knowledge (nature) +5 (4int+1feat), Knowledge (nobility) +5 (4int+1feat), Knowledge (religion) +27 (16sk+4int+1feat+6inv), Knowledge (The Planes) +17 (6sk+4int+1feat+6inv), Search +16 (4sk+4int+2feat+6inv), Sense Motive +17 (+16sk+1wis), Spellcraft +24 (+16sk+4int+2feat+2syn) +26 with scrolls (+16sk+4int+2feat+4syn), spot +7 (1wis+6inv), Survival +1 (1wis) +3 on other planes or underground (1wis+2syn), Use Magic Device +18 (16sk+2feat) +20 with scrolls (16sk+2feat+2syn)

Eldritch Blast (Sp): The first ability a warlock learns is eldritch blast. A warlock attacks his foes with eldritch power, using baleful magical energy to deal damage and sometimes impart other debilitating effects.
An eldritch blast is a ray with a range of 60 feet. It is a ranged touch attack that affects a single target, allowing no saving throw. An eldritch blast deals 1d6 points of damage at 1st level and increases in power as the warlock rises in level. An eldritch blast is the equivalent of a spell whose level is equal to one-half the warlock’s class level (round down), with a minimum spell level of 1st and a maximum of 9th when a warlock reaches 18th level or higher
An eldritch blast is subject to spell resistance, although the Spell Penetration feat and other effects that improve caster level checks to overcome spell resistance also apply to eldritch blast. An eldritch blast deals half damage to objects. Metamagic feats cannot improve a warlock’s eldritch blast (because it is a spell-like ability, not a spell). However, the feat Ability Focus (eldritch blast) increases the DC for all saving throws (if any) associated with a warlock’s eldritch blast by 2. See page 303 of the Monster Manual.

Detect Magic (Sp): A warlock can use detect magic as the spell at will. His caster level equals his class level (12)
Damage Reduction (Su): Fortifed by the supernatural power fowing in his body, a warlock becomes resistant to physical attacks, gaining damage reduction 3/cold iron.

Deceive Item (Ex): A warlock has the ability to more easily commandeer magic items made for the use of other characters. When making a Use Magic Device check, a warlock can take 10 even if distracted or threatened.

Fiendish Resilience (Su): A warlock knows the trick of fendish resilience. Once per day, as a free action, he can enter a state that lasts for 2 minutes. While in this state, the warlock gains fast healing 1.

Imbue Item (Su): A warlock can use his supernatural power to create magic items, even if he does not know the spells required to make an item (although he must know the appropriate item creation feat). He can substitute a Use Magic Device check (DC 15 + spell level for arcane spells or 25 + spell level for divine spells) in place of a required spell he doesn’t know or can’t cast.
If the check succeeds, the warlock can create the item as if he had cast the required spell. If it fails, he cannot complete the item. He does not expend the XP or gp costs for making the item; his progress is simply arrested. He cannot retry this Use Magic Device check for that spell until he gains a new level.

Dark Hand
Greater Invocation
The warlock may use Telekinesis as the spell. Additionally they may make a free attempt to telekinetically grapple any creature they hit with eldritch blast

The other two members of the group refer to the warlock simply as “Warlock”. It is unknown if he really has no name or the others are simply too stupid to remember it. A scholar of all fields of study, Warlock is the brains of the group and its de facto leader. Except for when he is plotting the murder of a romantic rival or building an unsavory magic item for an even more unsavory client, he also is usually the conscience of the group (relatively speaking); he tries to steer the group towards adventuring and/or employment rather than outright stealing, extortion, and fraud.

“Mimic”

“Mimic”; Mimic Warshaper 1; Large Aberration (Shapechanger)HD 7d8+1d8+56; HP 92; Init +1; Speed 10ft; AC 15 (-1 size, +1 Dex, +5 natural), touch 10, flat-footed 15; Atk +9 melee (1d8+4, 2 slams); SA adhesive, crush, morphic weapons; SQ Darkvision 60 ft., immunity to acid, mimic shape, morphic immunities; AL CN; SV Fort +11 (+2HD+7con+2class), Ref +5(+2hd+1dex+2feat), Will +3 (+5HD-2wis); Str 19 Dex 12 Con 24 Int 8 Wis 6 Cha 10
Skills and Feats: Climb +6 (2sk+4str), Disguise +10 (2sk+0cha+8rac), Escape Artist +2 (1sk+1dex), Listen +3 (3sk-2wis+2feat), Spot +3 (3sk-2wis+2feat); Alertness, Lightning Reflexes, Weapon Focus (slam)

Special Attacks:
Adhesive (Ex): A mimic exudes a thick slime that acts as a powerful adhesive, holding fast any creatures or items that touch it. An adhesive-covered mimic automatically grapples any creature it hits with its slam attack. Opponents so grappled cannot get free while the mimic is alive without removing the adhesive first.
A weapon that strikes an adhesive-coated mimic is stuck fast unless the wielder succeeds on a DC 16 Reflex save. A successful DC 16 Strength check is needed to pry it off.
Strong alcohol dissolves the adhesive, but the mimic still can grapple normally. A mimic can dissolve its adhesive at will, and the substance breaks down 5 rounds after the creature dies.

Crush (Ex): A mimic deals 1d8+4 points of damage with a successful grapple check.

Morphic Weapons (Su): As a move action, a warshaper can grow natural weapons such as claws or fangs, allowing a natural attack that deals the appropriate amount of damage according to the size of the new form. These morphic weapons need not be natural weapons that the creature already posesses, for example, a warshaper polymorphed into an ettin (Large giant) could grow a claw that deals 1d6 points of damage, or horns for a gore attack that deals 1d8 points of damage.

If the warshaper’s form already has a natural weapon of that type, the weapon deals damage as if it were one category larger. For example, a warshaper who used wild shape to become a dire wolf (Large animal) could grow its jaw and snout, enabling a bite attack that deals 2d6 points of damage (as a for Huge animal), not the normal 1d8. A warshaper can change morphic weapons as often as it likes, even if it is using a shapechanging technique such as the polymorph spell or the wild shape class feature that doesn’t allow subsequent changes after the initial transformation.

Special Qualities:
Mimic Shape (Ex): A mimic can assume the general shape of any object that fills roughly 150 cubic feet (5 feet by 5 feet by 6 feet), such as a massive chest, a stout bed, or a wide door frame. The creature cannot substantially alter its size, though. A mimic’s body is hard and has a rough texture, no matter what appearance it might present. Anyone who examines the mimic can detect the ruse with a successful Spot check opposed by the mimic’s Disguise check. Of course, by this time it is generally far too late.

Morphic Immunities (Ex): A warshaper is adept at distributing her form’s vital organs around her body to keep them safe from harm. Warshapers are immune to stunning and critical hits.

“Mimic” is an unusually dumb mimic prone to taking on non-apropos disguises or accidentally disguising himself as the wrong thing. The Gorn Lord is fond of tricking him into turning into offensive shapes that enrage onlookers and even more fond of tricking him into doing the dirty work for its half-baked schemes. When out adventuring he has the useful quality of being able to get the others into hard to reach places

“The Gorn Lord”
The Gorn Lord; CE Intelligent Everfull Mug (Magic Item Compendium pg.160; A mug that can fill itself with cheap booze 3/day; base price 200gp); Int 9, Wis 6, Cha 6; Speaks Common; Sight 120 ft and hearing; 10 ranks in Bluff, 10 ranks in Profession(Cook);

Moderate Conjuration; CL 15th; Craft Wondrous Item, Create Water;11700 gp

The Gorn Lord is white stoneware tankard with a carved face and an elaborately wrought golden lid. The tankard has a reprehensible personality, and left to its own devices it will swindle people, verbally abuse people, make inappropriate advances towards women (despite the fact that it lacks genitals), and attempt to trick people into injuring themselves. Its only useful trait, other than its ability to generate cheap alcohol, is its inexplicably extensive knowledge of cooking.


And these three are of course based heavily on Frylock, Meatwad, and Master Shake from Aqua Teen Hunger Force