[PF1] ... looking for a unicorn (aka the Warlock)

[Volfogg]

Hey All

I have been searching lately for a PF1E equivalent to the Warlock, I've managed to find a few, however, none of them sit "well" with me. I am looking for the tried and true original take on it, that of an eldritch practitioner which forms a pact and can shoot magical beams (oh and lets not forget about the invocations). The closest one that I have found, and one which I truly like is The Avowed, only problem is that it's not done as far as I can tell. :( So, please share any and all warlock type base classes, whether they are 3rd party or homebrew, bring em on.

Cheers
Volf

[Psyren]

Which other ones have you found and what didn't you like about them? That might help focus our search; for example, if you tried Spheres of Power (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/using-spheres-of-power) already and didn't like it, we could avoid that one. (In case you haven't - Spheres is an attempt at a balanced magic system built around at-will themed powers that can then be modified to alternative or more traditional resource expenditures.)

My personal recommendation would be to just finish (or at least flesh out) the Avowed yourself/with the help of the community, as I don't think any other attempts got much closer than it did. Certainly the chassis of that class comes closest to what I envisioned a true PF warlock being.

[Eldonauran]

I allowed using the Warlock class from 3.5e in a Pathfinder game I ran a while ago (several years). It performed just fine when compared to the classes available at the time (Advanced Player's Guide was just released then). Just tweak the skills and HP to match the core PF rules, and you are pretty much good to go.

Now, it MIGHT be better to slap on some minor spellcasting ability to it, similar to an Occultist or Medium to help even off the edges with all the newer classes, but I haven't tested that out just yet.

[Volfogg]

Which other ones have you found and what didn't you like about them? That might help focus our search; for example, if you tried Spheres of Power (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/using-spheres-of-power) already and didn't like it, we could avoid that one. (In case you haven't - Spheres is an attempt at a balanced magic system built around at-will themed powers that can then be modified to alternative or more traditional resource expenditures.)

My personal recommendation would be to just finish (or at least flesh out) the Avowed yourself/with the help of the community, as I don't think any other attempts got much closer than it did. Certainly the chassis of that class comes closest to what I envisioned a true PF warlock being.
Spheres of Power has a warlock base class?!? Going to check that out asap.

As for the Warlock classes I found, please see blow:

The Dread Codex Warlock
Strange Brew (this was a kickstarter and this version of warlock is one of the absolute worst!)
Into the Breach Oracle (this one has a warlock base class which is a variant of the oracle iirc)
Vigilante Archetype (this is interesting, just not what I am looking for)
The Avowed (which is the best as far as I can tell)


I think you are right @Psyren, just going to fine tune the Avowed and use that. The writing for it is amazing, wonder what happened to the author ... he should Kickstart the book!

Cheers
Volf

[Heavenblade]

Kineticists are probably your best bet here - a tad more complicated than a warlock, with a couple of small sub mechanics you need to learn before enjoying the class.

Its one of my favorite classes in pathfinder - the basic skeleton of "Blast, modifications, utility stuff" which can be costumized in a thousand ways, including a classic 3.5 warlock.

The "pact" part you'll have to fluff, but that was pretty much only fluff in 3.5 as well.

[Psyren]

EDIT: As above, Kineticist isn't a flavor match for the Warlock but mechanically it's your closest bet, and I've seen a number of tweaks and fixes for that that should make that closer to what you want to see.


Spheres of Power has a warlock base class?!? Going to check that out asap.

Er, kind of... there are some that are more thematic starting points you can use as a base like Incanter, but getting to something that feels "warlock" will probably involve a bit of finesse on your part to mix and match abilities from various spheres. I'll defer to someone much more knowledgeable on the subject like SangoProduction or Kitsuneymg.


I think you are right @Psyren, just going to fine tune the Avowed and use that. The writing for it is amazing, wonder what happened to the author ... he should Kickstart the book!

Cheers
Volf

I'm interested in the Avowed and have the half-finished PDF as well. If you're interested in crowdsourcing suggestions, feel free to make a thread over in Homebrew Design (https://forums.giantitp.com/forumdisplay.php?15-Homebrew-Design) for us to tinker with it, and link to that thread here; I'll be happy to swing by if you do.

[Melayl]

I have a mostly finished Pathfinder 1E warlock.

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?608270-Pathfinder-Warlock

While I didn't go for the "pact" feel, the (incomplete) bloodlines could be changed to pacts.

[Gnaeus]

If 3pp is available (since we are discussing spheres)
Dreamscarred press has a couple of at will arcane casting types. My favorites are the Mystic (path of war, which used to be tome of battle) and the Vizier (akashic mysteries, which used to be magic of incarnum)

[StSword]

Getting a Warlock out of spheres of power would be from casting traditions. You'd probably be better off making your own tradition.

Pact Magic is probably the closest official analogue, it represents someone whose magic talents represents summoning spirits they have pacts with and the spirits then cast the spells.

Wouldn't really take much to change the fluff so that it represents a single pact with a being with minions.

So say a fire blast might represent the aide of a fire demon for an infernal pact, or the aide of fire sprites of the Unseelie court from a fey pact.

If you want to blast things, well the Destruction sphere (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/destruction) basically works pretty much exactly like a Warlock's destructive blast.

As for classes, well you could take your pick but Elementalist (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/elementalist) is all about blasting stuff, and Thaumaturgists (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/thaumaturge) are all about forbidden magic types.

Or maybe look at a Sphere Witch (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/sphere-witch) or Sorcerer (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/sphere-sorcerer) to pick up appropriate hexes or bloodline abilities.

[Psyren]

I have a mostly finished Pathfinder 1E warlock.

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?608270-Pathfinder-Warlock

While I didn't go for the "pact" feel, the (incomplete) bloodlines could be changed to pacts.

I think bloodlines are a decent starting point to make various pacts or bargains from, despite warlock powers not being as closely tied to genetics/heritage as sorcery is. I'll take a look at yours.

[Melayl]

I think bloodlines are a decent starting point to make various pacts or bargains from, despite warlock powers not being as closely tied to genetics/heritage as sorcery is. I'll take a look at yours.

Let me know what you come up with (and if you have any suggestions for mine).

I was going to add Bonus Invocations for high Charisma, like Bonus Spells. At 1st, 2nd, and every even level until they run out of +modifier.

[Ramza00]

Not what you are asking for but it plays as one.

Wilder can really be boosted into the Stratosphere with Dreamscarred Press adapation of Psionics into Pathfinder.


Wilder Base Class +1/+2/+3/+4/+5/+6 at HD 01/03/07/11/15/19
Favored Class Benefit can boost it +1/+2/+3/+4 at HD05/10/15/20, with the specific race the Lurker from Dreamscarred Bloodforge book. Lurkers are variants dwarf, elf, gnome, halfling, or humans but with different abilities than dwarves, elves, gnomes, and halflings.
Surge Crystal Items can boost +1/+2/+3 for GP 15k, 30k, and 60k on the open market but since Psychic Reformation is even better in PF you are your own crafter and thus the real cost are 7.5k, 15k, and 30k after HD08.


Thus at HD08 you can surge via +3, have a +1 FCB, and a +1 Item for 5 free manifester levels. At HD 10 this is +3/+2/+2 for 7 free manifester levels, and HD 11 it is +8 free ml.

You can always choose to just donate 1 single power point and make that 5 free power points at HD08 be a 6 pp power, likewise you can donate 2 single power points and make it a 7 pp and thus a near 4th level power.

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Likewise Mindstones and Greater Mindstones can give you more Powers Known. Psychic Reformation at ML 13 allows you to swap any of your powers known within 10 minutes.
Also the psionic power Shape the Shade (2nd level) if augmented high enough allows you to grab any Summoner Eidolon ability of 2 CP or less, and a bonus feat for Expanded Knowledge or another feat is always a great choice. It takes 10 ML (thus 3 pp and 7 ML boost, or 5 pp and 5 ML boost) to grab this feat and it lasts for 10 hours if your ML is 10. There is a downside you look like a ghost from ghostbusters, but at 14 ML this downside disappears.



The only cost is psychic enervation, but the wilder books help with that where you can be dazzled instead of dazed when you psychically enervate (student wilder). Note it also gives you a few more expanded knowledges but not at the best levels.

Furthermore there is a feat Biokinetic Feedback that makes you lose HP at your choice instead of losing PP, in addition Biokinetic Feedback allows you to Overchannel plus Wild Surge at the same time with a Psychic Enervation chance of 20%. (Reminder Overchannel does not give you free PP but it does helping you nova at HD08 for 2 higher ML is nice and HD15 it is 3 higher ML)

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Oh also there is Efficent Surge wilder which is the opposite of a traditional wilder. Lets you say you are an HD08 Wilder with no other ML boost, if you wild surge for 3 your cost in PP is 5 instead of 8. This is more useful if you want to only cast 4th level psionic powers at HD08, but it is likely better to augment 1st, 2nd, 3rd, level powers to ML 11 with the educated wilder. Also you are staggered instead of dazzled or daze. Likewise there is a Steelforge 1 or 2 item that is a grand charm that allows you to make that staggered or dazed effect once a day a dazzled effect.





See in Dreamscarred Press, Wilders are better Warlocks and half a dozen other things. Note I did not list all the cool tricks of Wilder for this post is already long.

[Kitsuneymg]

Spheres of Power does not have a “warlock class”. Instead, it’s a complete replacement of the magic system with a talent based system. It just so happens that, where they are comparable, the Warlock and Spheres basically play the same.

Destruction, as mentioned, is basically a generalization of the entire eldritch blast ability, including all the shapes and types. Depending on what you want from the blast part of a warlock, either the general talents, or specific archetypes of classes will replicate it (and then some.) Straight ranged touch attack blasting is accessible to everyone. Eldritch glaive exists in the Doomblade archetype of the Mageknight. Eldritch claws don’t have an exact representation in USoP sadly, but Entropic Sage is somewhat similar. Hideous Blow exists as Energy Strike.

For non blast talents, the other spheres cover everything from weather manipulation to mind control to shapeshifting.

Almost all talents have some form of at-will usage. For destruction, it’s odd-casterlevel-d6 ranged touch. All talents have the ability to expend spell points to gain increased effects. Some allow for only a single point, while others can consume multiple. For destruction, expensing a spell point increases your smash to 1 dice per caster level.

Mechanically SOP does a great job of straddling the at-will invocation feeling with the ability to do better things based on a resource.

For the flavor of a warlock (small number of spells known, beholden to a source of power) the thaumaturge works well. I don’t like the class, but they get only a few talents (10+2), have 3/4 bab, get some very warlock-like UMD/spellcraft features, and can easily craft their own tradition to reflect the wants and needs of their patron. Witch, of course, can do the same.

If you want to play something named “warlock” you’re not going to really find it in spheres. If you want a more generalization of the warlock magic system as well as the ability to apply the warlock fluff to any caster, spheres does that better than any other 3pp I’ve used.

[Volfogg]

I super appreciate all the feedback and help folks! Such a wonderful community. :) I commented above and will be using the Avowed. It's just to damn good.


I'm interested in the Avowed and have the half-finished PDF as well. If you're interested in crowdsourcing suggestions, feel free to make a thread over in Homebrew Design for us to tinker with it, and link to that thread here; I'll be happy to swing by if you do.
This is a great idea! I wonder where the original author disappeared to though. Like I mentioned they should just kickstart it.

[Psyren]

I'd expecct Kickstarter to be more geared at a whole book - not just the Avowed itself, but other base invocation/clause-using classes, archetypes for existing PF classes, prestige classes, feats, items, spells that interact with the new subsystem, monsters, ideas for introducing them into your campaign, etc. For just designing the one class I would expect what we got, a partial pdf, maybe with a playtest/comment period. Sadly, I don't think we'll be getting that either, so it's up to the community now.