throwing multiple Javelin of Lightning

[Aaedimus]

The Javelin of Lightning is an uncommon magical item.
If you have 2 javelins (or other weapons) in your hands, you can throw both as part of the generic multi-attack action.

I feel as if that would apply to the javelins of lightning as well. You can throw both of them as attacks 1 and 2 of your multi-attack action.

Obviously, it would be down to DM Fiat, however, I don't think this is OP for a level 17 character

Any reasons why this wouldn't work? The item says "When you hurl it and speak its command word" not "when you hurl it as an action", so my interpretation is that you could throw a magical and non-magical javelin. Extending this, you could throw as many as you have attack actions if you owned more than 1.

[Keltest]

It doesnt specifically say that it takes an action anywhere, or any other resource for that matter. I think your reasoning is sound. If you have two, you can hurl two. If you hurl two, you can activate the property on two.

The rules for interacting with an item means you arent doing this more than three times a round though. One for your main hand, one for your off hand, and one that you draw with your free item interaction.

[Aaedimus]

Extending this idea, The Marilith is a shape change option and has 7 multi-attacks, 6 with weapons.

I'm looking into how this could be maintained... for example, when you shape change you don't automatically get weapons, so to use those... my gnome will have to hold... 6 longswords on his back at all times?! Javelins do seem more realistic as they'd be easier to carry around... The javelin of lightning is also uncommon, and so in our world, it's not too hard to find/buy.

The question of drawing weapons as a Marilith is an interesting one, taking into account the rules for drawing weapons, and the fact that the Marilith has 6 arms....

[Aaedimus]

Many would want to (or say it's reasonable) restrict the Marilith attack action to attacks with a longsword, which could get rough...
Similarly, the damage with a longsword attack is 2d8, and if you extended this to other weapons if you attacked with a javelin for example, I don't think it would be unreasonable to expect 2d6 from a javelin attack.

Once the 6 are thrown though, drawing other weapons seems like it would be an issue.

[JackPhoenix]

Many would want to (or say it's reasonable) restrict the Marilith attack action to attacks with a longsword, which could get rough...
Similarly, the damage with a longsword attack is 2d8, and if you extended this to other weapons if you attacked with a javelin for example, I don't think it would be unreasonable to expect 2d6 from a javelin attack.

Once the 6 are thrown though, drawing other weapons seems like it would be an issue.

It's literally RAW that the 6 attacks in Marilith's multiattack action have to be made with longsword (and one with a tail). If you don't have longswords, you can't use the listed multiattack.

[GeistInMachine]

I have noticed this as well

A Battlemaster fighter with Thrown Weapon Fighting to draw more javelins, Quick Toss manouver for a BA attack, and a Quiver of Ehlonna to carry all these javelins, could probably throw a Javelin for every attack of a normal fight. Precision attack to make sure the extra lightning damage connects.

As uncommon items, these would be comparatively cheap to acquire. A good money sink. Kindof reminds me of spamming Lighting Spear in Dark Souls

At level 20 you could toss the whole quiver of 18 in two rounds with action surge and quick toss giving you 9 attacks per round

A Javelin of lighting hit averages 14 extra damage, without the accuracy drawback of GWM or Sharpshooter, and with Quick Toss as well as the Brace Manouver you basically have polarm master

Might be good to invest in Martial Adept and Fighting Initiate: Superior Technique to get three two more superiority dice per short rest

[KorvinStarmast]

I don't think this is OP for a level 17 character
Nor do I. If you have found or traded for two of them, I think this is a great "first strike" capability.

Any reasons why this wouldn't work? Not that I can see. You can throw and say two words in Six Seconds or less, I suspect. :smallwink:

[Segev]

Not that I can see. You can throw and say two words in Six Seconds or less, I suspect. :smallwink:

The command word is probably something like Link's "Hya!"

[Waterdeep Merch]

With Tasha's, you can also grab the Thrown Weapon Fighting Style in order to use a shield with this and still get your full Extra Attacks. And add +2 damage to boot!

It'll also stack with the Archery Fighting Style if you happen to have a way to get both. You could really specialize in these, enough so that I'd contend that getting multiple Javelins of Lightning is, RAW, the end game goal of a thrown weapon build.

[KorvinStarmast]

It's literally RAW that the 6 attacks in Marilith's multiattack action have to be made with longsword (and one with a tail). If you don't have longswords, you can't use the listed multiattack. The way I see it, if a CR 16 six armed demon looks at me and tells me 'I use longswords to attack, and this is a longsword' (she gestures at a scimitar with her head) I am not about to argue RAW with her. I'll ask her if she needs me to sharpen it, and, if she's not in a bad mood I'll compliment her on minimalist her taste in clothing (https://www.deviantart.com/juanmimagine/art/Marilith-Demon-Dungeons-and-Dragons-350522595). :smalleek:

[Quietus]

It'll also stack with the Archery Fighting Style if you happen to have a way to get both. You could really specialize in these, enough so that I'd contend that getting multiple Javelins of Lightning is, RAW, the end game goal of a thrown weapon build.

Unfortunately not. Archery style gives you +2 to attack with ranged weapons. Javelins are a melee weapon with the thrown property. Archery style does not apply.

[Waterdeep Merch]

Unfortunately not. Archery style gives you +2 to attack with ranged weapons. Javelins are a melee weapon with the thrown property. Archery style does not apply.

You're right, I forgot this weirdness. It's Dueling Style that stacks, not Archery.

[Quietus]

You're right, I forgot this weirdness. It's Dueling Style that stacks, not Archery.

And even that is debated. DM Discretion may vary.

[Waterdeep Merch]

And even that is debated. DM Discretion may vary.

They certainly could, but RAW and RAI both say a thrown weapon is still a melee weapon and interacts with Dueling, even when thrown. If a DM decides to rule against that and determine it's a ranged weapon when thrown, I'd have to ask why Archery then doesn't work.

It'd be cleaner for them to ban Tasha's and just allow either Dueling or Archery if they really hated the combo that much.

[Quietus]

They certainly could, but RAW and RAI both say a thrown weapon is still a melee weapon and interacts with Dueling, even when thrown. If a DM decides to rule against that and determine it's a ranged weapon when thrown, I'd have to ask why Archery then doesn't work.

It'd be cleaner for them to ban Tasha's and just allow either Dueling or Archery if they really hated the combo that much.

It's my understanding that the general objection is that once a weapon has been thrown (and thus benefits from the throwing weapon style), it is no longer being "wielded in one hand", since it is, by definition, no longer in your hand. This isn't something that is worth debating, I just like to ensure people know to expect table variation. Frankly, at my table, I'd allow it - resources have to be spent to get both of those styles, outside of the yklwa and some very specific magic items, it'll only apply to d6 damage weapons, while excluding anything that would allow GWM/SS. Nothing is going to break from this. But you will occasionally find DMs who find the stacking of those styles distasteful and would disallow it.

[Waterdeep Merch]

I was just thinking "why does this conversation feel vaguely familiar?".

And then I found three heated arguments about this here on the Playground.

So we'll just leave it at "your DM might agree with what I said or what Quietus said, and arguments will only lead to madness here".

[JackPhoenix]

It's my understanding that the general objection is that once a weapon has been thrown (and thus benefits from the throwing weapon style), it is no longer being "wielded in one hand", since it is, by definition, no longer in your hand. This isn't something that is worth debating, I just like to ensure people know to expect table variation. Frankly, at my table, I'd allow it - resources have to be spent to get both of those styles, outside of the yklwa and some very specific magic items, it'll only apply to d6 damage weapons, while excluding anything that would allow GWM/SS. Nothing is going to break from this. But you will occasionally find DMs who find the stacking of those styles distasteful and would disallow it.

The whole argument is based on the assumption that you for some reason interrupt the attack resolution sequence to change the weapon's status between the attack roll and the damage roll. Which would have lot more consequences than just whether a single fighting style works.

[Gurgeh]

Might be good to invest in Martial Adept and Fighting Initiate: Superior Technique to get three more superiority dice per short rest
Quibble: you'd only get two more dice out of this. Martial Adept gives two manoeuvres, while Superior Technique only gives one. Both features only give a single superiority die.

[GeistInMachine]

Quibble: you'd only get two more dice out of this. Martial Adept gives two manoeuvres, while Superior Technique only gives one. Both features only give a single superiority die.

Good catch

All the maneuvers are nice to have, can maybe grab Tactical Assessment to improve investigation checks for finding all of the Javelins of Lightning that are required, and Commanding Presence to get Discounts from Shopkeepers