Doctor Despair
2021-08-25, 10:12 PM
A while ago I posted a thread trying to list all the ways to become unusual sizes (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?631127-Players-of-Unusual-Size-I-Don-t-Think-They-Exist&p=25037342#post25037342) as a player character. That thread has since aged out, but I overlooked the most recent comment on it before it did so. Originally, I had thought that the largest non-dragon magazine playable race was a Half-Ogre with Human Heritage and permanent Enlarge Person. You're huge for the meager cost of LA+2, a feat, and some pocket change; I thought colossal size was simply impossible since we weren't close at all. However, that more recent comment discussed the half-fiend template which, excitingly, is compatible with that strategy, leading us to this statblock:
Half-Goristro Half-Ogre
Type: Outsider
Size: Huge
Base Speed: Land 30
Strength: +22
Intelligence: -2
Dexterity: -4
Wisdom:+0
Constitution: +14
Charisma: -2
Space: 15 feet
Reach: 15 feet
Size Modifier: -2
Natural Armor: +12
Natural Attacks: 2 Slams 3d6 + Str
Special Attacks: Smite Good
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60ft, Immunity (Poison), Resistance 10 (Acid/Cold/Electic/Fire), DR 5 (Cold Iron), SR 10
Automatic Languages: Common, Giant
Bonus Languages: Abyssal, Draconic, Gnoll, Goblin, Orc
Alignment: Always evil
CR: HD +3
LA: +6
If we take Human Heritage at level 1 and apply Permanent Enlarge Person, we would become a Gargantuan Humanoid (Human) with an additional +2 Str, -2 Dex, -1 to Attack and AC, +5 to Reach, and +1d6 to our Slam damage. +4LA is a big investment for little return (apart from absurdity), but I have to wonder if we can do better. Can we become colossal, or become gargantuan more efficiently?
I'm digging around for any other ways to change our size to colossal, and I can't say I'm ecstatic with the options, but they're interesting to say the least. The best I could find at first was to take that same Half-Goristro Half-Ogre and infect it with Chachalot Whale Lycanthropy. Then, apply permanent Enlarge Person. Your hybrid form would be colossal, but you'd also have LA +8 and 12 RHD which is completely unsustainable. Unfortunately, I'm floundering (small pun intended) when it comes to finding Gargantuan animals with fewer HD, so becoming colossal seems prohibitively expensive using lycanthropy as a vehicle.
I dug around for other forms of lycanthropy, and a Half-Ogre could become huge with Huge Viper lycanthropy instead of using the Half-Goristro template. That would saddle you with +2 LA and 6 RHD instead of +4 LA... I'm not sure the +2LA saved from not taking the Half-Goristro is worth 6RHD, but at least the RHD provide stats and feats, I suppose. Let's see what that stat block would look like:
Lycanthrope (Huge Viper, Afflicted) Half-Ogre (Hybrid Form)
Type: Giant (Shapechanger)
Size: Huge
Base Speed: Land 30
Strength: +12
Intelligence: -2
Dexterity: +2
Wisdom:+2
Constitution: +4
Charisma: -2
(+1 of player's choice to any ability via HD)
Class Skills: Balance, Climb, Hide, Listen, Spot, Swim
Skill Points: 2 +int/HD
Feats: Improved Initiative (b), Run (b), Weapon Focus: Bite (b), Iron Will (b)
Base Save Bonuses from HD: Fort +5, Ref +5, Will +2
Space: 15 feet
Reach: 15 feet
Size Modifier: -2
HD: 6d8
BAB: +4
Natural Armor: +6
Natural Attacks: 2 Claws 2d4 +Str, 1 Bite 2d6 +Str
Special Attacks: -
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60ft, Low-Light Vision, Scent, Alternate Form, DR 5 (Silver), Lycanthropic Empathy
Automatic Languages: Common, Giant
Bonus Languages: Abyssal, Draconic, Gnoll, Goblin, Orc
Alignment: Evil
CR: Class Levels +4
LA: +4
It's a shame the Half-Fiend web template can't increase your size past Huge, or I could go diving for gargantuan fiends. We can still take Human Heritage and permanency Enlarge Person to be Gargantuan here, of course. Losing 10 strength and 10 con is notable, to say the least. The bab almost erases the loss of strength with regard to attack bonus at least, and the HD will outpace the benefit of the con with regard to hit points for a few levels at least. The loss in natural armor probably offsets the HD hp as well, though, and the resistances were definitely nice, although the SR was somewhat negligible at that ECL, and the natural attacks are somewhat notably worse... Half-Goristro Half-Ogre is probably stronger overall, I'd say.
With Dragon Magazine material, you could take a medium race (we'll say human for simplicity), add the dragon Half-Ogre or Half-Minotaur templates for +1 LA to become large, add Half-Goristro for +4 to become huge, then add the Afflicted Cachalot Whale Lycanthropy for +2LA and 12HD to become Gargantuan at ECL 20, then enlarge person to be colossal. This is at least within 20HD, but giving up 14 class levels for one size category increase is, again, prohibitively expensive... It would have been a silly entry for the Kaiju villainous competition recently, but alas, I only recently went diving back into the thread for an unrelated reason, so it wasn't meant to be.
I suppose, then, this question is a bit of a two-parter:
Is there a cheaper (ECL-wise) way to hit all-day gargantuan size as a PC? The bar is to be gargantuan by ECL7.
Is there a cheaper (ECL-wise) way to hit all-day colossal size as a PC?
The second question is probably best answered by Persistent Shapechange or Persistent Expansion, but I'm still hopeful there's some suspiciously low HD gargantuan animal out there to save the day.
Half-Goristro Half-Ogre
Type: Outsider
Size: Huge
Base Speed: Land 30
Strength: +22
Intelligence: -2
Dexterity: -4
Wisdom:+0
Constitution: +14
Charisma: -2
Space: 15 feet
Reach: 15 feet
Size Modifier: -2
Natural Armor: +12
Natural Attacks: 2 Slams 3d6 + Str
Special Attacks: Smite Good
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60ft, Immunity (Poison), Resistance 10 (Acid/Cold/Electic/Fire), DR 5 (Cold Iron), SR 10
Automatic Languages: Common, Giant
Bonus Languages: Abyssal, Draconic, Gnoll, Goblin, Orc
Alignment: Always evil
CR: HD +3
LA: +6
If we take Human Heritage at level 1 and apply Permanent Enlarge Person, we would become a Gargantuan Humanoid (Human) with an additional +2 Str, -2 Dex, -1 to Attack and AC, +5 to Reach, and +1d6 to our Slam damage. +4LA is a big investment for little return (apart from absurdity), but I have to wonder if we can do better. Can we become colossal, or become gargantuan more efficiently?
I'm digging around for any other ways to change our size to colossal, and I can't say I'm ecstatic with the options, but they're interesting to say the least. The best I could find at first was to take that same Half-Goristro Half-Ogre and infect it with Chachalot Whale Lycanthropy. Then, apply permanent Enlarge Person. Your hybrid form would be colossal, but you'd also have LA +8 and 12 RHD which is completely unsustainable. Unfortunately, I'm floundering (small pun intended) when it comes to finding Gargantuan animals with fewer HD, so becoming colossal seems prohibitively expensive using lycanthropy as a vehicle.
I dug around for other forms of lycanthropy, and a Half-Ogre could become huge with Huge Viper lycanthropy instead of using the Half-Goristro template. That would saddle you with +2 LA and 6 RHD instead of +4 LA... I'm not sure the +2LA saved from not taking the Half-Goristro is worth 6RHD, but at least the RHD provide stats and feats, I suppose. Let's see what that stat block would look like:
Lycanthrope (Huge Viper, Afflicted) Half-Ogre (Hybrid Form)
Type: Giant (Shapechanger)
Size: Huge
Base Speed: Land 30
Strength: +12
Intelligence: -2
Dexterity: +2
Wisdom:+2
Constitution: +4
Charisma: -2
(+1 of player's choice to any ability via HD)
Class Skills: Balance, Climb, Hide, Listen, Spot, Swim
Skill Points: 2 +int/HD
Feats: Improved Initiative (b), Run (b), Weapon Focus: Bite (b), Iron Will (b)
Base Save Bonuses from HD: Fort +5, Ref +5, Will +2
Space: 15 feet
Reach: 15 feet
Size Modifier: -2
HD: 6d8
BAB: +4
Natural Armor: +6
Natural Attacks: 2 Claws 2d4 +Str, 1 Bite 2d6 +Str
Special Attacks: -
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60ft, Low-Light Vision, Scent, Alternate Form, DR 5 (Silver), Lycanthropic Empathy
Automatic Languages: Common, Giant
Bonus Languages: Abyssal, Draconic, Gnoll, Goblin, Orc
Alignment: Evil
CR: Class Levels +4
LA: +4
It's a shame the Half-Fiend web template can't increase your size past Huge, or I could go diving for gargantuan fiends. We can still take Human Heritage and permanency Enlarge Person to be Gargantuan here, of course. Losing 10 strength and 10 con is notable, to say the least. The bab almost erases the loss of strength with regard to attack bonus at least, and the HD will outpace the benefit of the con with regard to hit points for a few levels at least. The loss in natural armor probably offsets the HD hp as well, though, and the resistances were definitely nice, although the SR was somewhat negligible at that ECL, and the natural attacks are somewhat notably worse... Half-Goristro Half-Ogre is probably stronger overall, I'd say.
With Dragon Magazine material, you could take a medium race (we'll say human for simplicity), add the dragon Half-Ogre or Half-Minotaur templates for +1 LA to become large, add Half-Goristro for +4 to become huge, then add the Afflicted Cachalot Whale Lycanthropy for +2LA and 12HD to become Gargantuan at ECL 20, then enlarge person to be colossal. This is at least within 20HD, but giving up 14 class levels for one size category increase is, again, prohibitively expensive... It would have been a silly entry for the Kaiju villainous competition recently, but alas, I only recently went diving back into the thread for an unrelated reason, so it wasn't meant to be.
I suppose, then, this question is a bit of a two-parter:
Is there a cheaper (ECL-wise) way to hit all-day gargantuan size as a PC? The bar is to be gargantuan by ECL7.
Is there a cheaper (ECL-wise) way to hit all-day colossal size as a PC?
The second question is probably best answered by Persistent Shapechange or Persistent Expansion, but I'm still hopeful there's some suspiciously low HD gargantuan animal out there to save the day.