Spellblade help.

[AceDragonKing]

Okay, so iÂ’m playing a wizard who exclusively uses magic missile. Domain wizard 5, incantrix 1, force missile mage 5, incantrix 9. ThatÂ’s the plan. IÂ’ve currently gotten to lvl 5. and i only prepare magic missile modified by metamagic feats in every single spell slot and will continue to do so.

Here is the problem. DM is now saying if i become well known enemies will start to have spellblades. Which makes them immune to 1 spell of their choice at item creation. I need a way to get around that. Because, this is literally the only spell i have prepared or will ever prepare or cast. (i donÂ’t even use cantrips)

The Dm says even though i alter and modify the spell itÂ’s still magic missile so thatÂ’s out. I asked that since it absorbs the spell if i quicken cast it can i hit him after he absorbs the first one? He said that they would still be immune even if they already absorbed 1.

I need help getting around a spellblade threat in the future that will quite literally nerf my character (more than iÂ’ve already done to myself). Thanks in advance.

[Kaleph]

Target (and sunder) the weapon instead of the wielder.

[Aracor]

Target (and sunder) the weapon instead of the wielder.

That's a great idea, but Magic Missile explicitly doesn't affect objects.

[Silverhawk112]

I don't think that would help him in specific. Mainly because Magic Missile doesn't allow you to target objects.

[Kaleph]

That's a great idea, but Magic Missile explicitly doesn't affect objects.

Thank you for the catch; sundering the weapon may still be a good strategy - maybe some wand of shatter could help?

BTW it's also hard to understand if a weapon is enchanted as a spellblade...

[Glimbur]

Have your party help. You might not be able to target every enemy in an encounter, but if everyone in a fight has a spell blade you start to get a lot of loot in a hurry. Just accept that there are some enemies who are immune to your one spell, unless your party disarms them but it is often easier just to kill them.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Take the Spell Thematics feat from Magic of Faerun, then disguise your magic missile castings as a wide array of diverse effects, such as hurling a cloud of knives, or large insects that sting opponents. Or take Invisible Spell to just make them impossible to I.D., because nobody can actually see them.

Also take more powerful variants of magic missile, such as force missiles and chain missile. They aren't the same spell as magic missile, but they're the magic missile equivalents of later spells in the alter spell/polymorph/baleful polymorph/polymorph any object spell chain. You're still on theme, but unless the spellblade has all three spells attached, at least one of them should work properly. Also consider researching a few spells that work in that vein.

You might consider taking the Selective Spell feat to ensure that nobody in your party can be affected, no matter how many missiles they're hit with. Alternatively, give everyone in the party spellblades so when enemies reflect them at you, your party can reflect that back at someone else.

[AceDragonKing]

I don't think that would help him in specific. Mainly because Magic Missile doesn't allow you to target objects.


Thank you for the catch; sundering the weapon may still be a good strategy - maybe some wand of shatter could help?

BTW it's also hard to understand if a weapon is enchanted as a spellblade...

Shatter specifies a non magical item tho.

[AceDragonKing]

Take the Spell Thematics feat from Magic of Faerun, then disguise your magic missile castings as a wide array of diverse effects, such as hurling a cloud of knives, or large insects that sting opponents. Or take Invisible Spell to just make them impossible to I.D., because nobody can actually see them.

Also take more powerful variants of magic missile, such as force missiles and chain missile. They aren't the same spell as magic missile, but they're the magic missile equivalents of later spells in the alter spell/polymorph/baleful polymorph/polymorph any object spell chain. You're still on theme, but unless the spellblade has all three spells attached, at least one of them should work properly. Also consider researching a few spells that work in that vein.

You might consider taking the Selective Spell feat to ensure that nobody in your party can be affected, no matter how many missiles they're hit with. Alternatively, give everyone in the party spellblades so when enemies reflect them at you, your party can reflect that back at someone else.

Selective Spell is a very good idea thank you. and i’m adverse to casting the higher lvl versions of magic missile cause i wanted to stick to only that one while i do understand your position. but i don’t think my force missile mage abilitys will apply to those spells.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Selective Spell is a very good idea thank you. and i’m adverse to casting the higher lvl versions of magic missile cause i wanted to stick to only that one while i do understand your position. but i don’t think my force missile mage abilitys will apply to those spells.Research a few greater magic missile spells which are more powerful and explicitly work with force missile mage, but they explode on impact and specify that they are not affected by spellblades, and, in fact, do worse things to spellblade wielders (but leave the spellblades alone, aside from maybe casting dispel magic on them; no sense in wasting loot, after all).

Fell Animate to make zombies with your magic missiles that can then attack for you?

[edit] Don't forget the shield spell and the brooch that absorbs 101 points of magic missile damage. Those'll make you useless, too, so add those to your researched spells. At least, before you get far enough in force missile mage.

[edit 2] Oh, and don't forget to look at the lava missile spell, force missile storm, and stone missiles...

[AceDragonKing]

Research a few greater magic missile spells which are more powerful and explicitly work with force missile mage, but they explode on impact and specify that they are not affected by spellblades, and, in fact, do worse things to spellblade wielders (but leave the spellblades alone, aside from maybe casting dispel magic on them; no sense in wasting loot, after all).

Fell Animate to make zombies with your magic missiles that can then attack for you?

[edit] Don't forget the shield spell and the brooch that absorbs 101 points of magic missile damage. Those'll make you useless, too, so add those to your researched spells. At least, before you get far enough in force missile mage.

unfortunately the class actually states magic missile and talks about going past the 5 missile limit.

At 1st level, a force missile mage gains increased mastery over his spell of choice. Every time he casts magic missile he creates an addition missile, even if this extra missile exceeds the normal maximum of five missiles that the spell normally allows. Thus, a 1st-levelforce missile mage/6th-level wizard creates five magic missiles, while a 1st-level force missile mage/8th- level wizard produces six missiles. At 5th level, the force missile mage benefits from an additional bonus missile. This means that a high-level force missile mage can create up to seven missiles with a single casting of magic missile.

edit : also force missile mage lets my penetrate that broach and the spell shield of you make a check

edit 2: also force missile mage let’s my change the damage type to fire, cold, acid or lightning if i so desire so lava missile don’t hold much appeal

[Seerow]

Is it a strictly character thing that has you preparing only magic missile variants? Traditionally with a build like this I'd prepare spells normally then spontaneously convert them to magic missile using Signature Spell.


Presuming that's not an option, I agree that working around the spell blades is a good option. You say Lava Missiles isn't great because you can make your magic missile deal fire damage, but what you're missing is Spellblades can only be immune to one spell. All you need is a spell with a different name that you can still apply your other shenaniganry to, and you render them useless and collect more expensive/valuable loot. Alternatively destroying the blades is a fun option but less likely one to be done within your theme of missiles only.

[AceDragonKing]

Is it a strictly character thing that has you preparing only magic missile variants? Traditionally with a build like this I'd prepare spells normally then spontaneously convert them to magic missile using Signature Spell.


Presuming that's not an option, I agree that working around the spell blades is a good option. You say Lava Missiles isn't great because you can make your magic missile deal fire damage, but what you're missing is Spellblades can only be immune to one spell. All you need is a spell with a different name that you can still apply your other shenaniganry to, and you render them useless and collect more expensive/valuable loot. Alternatively destroying the blades is a fun option but less likely one to be done within your theme of missiles only.

Yes this is a character trait and a point of pride. i Will only be using magic missile and altering it with meta magic’s. i’m not even using items that allow the use of other spells such as a staff of evocation. Like i will using an item that lets me shock someone. but i won’t use an item that lets me cast lightning bolt x number of times per day. so i’m only preparing magic missile, not preparing other things and then changing them. because i don’t have enough feats for that. if i want to use meta magic’s to use magic missile at every single spell slot i need all the feats i can get and wasting two on spell mastery and signature spell is me loosing out on two more meta magic’s.

So far i have invisible spell, fell weaken, and fell drain for my meta magic’s in addition to the combat casting and iron will needed to get into my prestige classes and next lvl i’ll be grabbing repeat spell to up my damage. and arcane thesis will be taken soon as well.

[RNightstalker]

Try a crossbow.

[KillianHawkeye]

Well, you've discovered the disadvantage of over-specializing. Once someone figures out you only ever cast magic missile, they'll be able to find ways to counter you.

You can have a signature spell without it being your ONLY spell. Or you can go down in history as the wizard who got killed because he was too stubborn to change strategies. There will be a chapter dedicated to you in Magic 101 in wizard school, teaching young mages what not to do.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I still think Invisible Spell would work well enough. It's hard to ID a spell when you can't see it, although also making it Stilled and Silent would make it un-ID-able.

[KillianHawkeye]

Alternatively, just never leave any witnesses.

[Fouredged Sword]

I would also consider the force needle feat as a backup. It's something that's not a spell so can't be blocked by spellblades. It's also something you can just do any turn where another magic missile isn't the answer. The fact that it provides +1 CL on all force spells, magic missile included, is just a nice secondary bonus.

[Phhase]

Here's an idea: get some alchemical items that cause rust and/or rot effects, similar to a rust beast. That way, you can toss it at spellblade users to break their blade. Hell, maybe even get a domesticated rust beast! I hear there are dwarves that train them for war.

[AceDragonKing]

Well, you've discovered the disadvantage of over-specializing. Once someone figures out you only ever cast magic missile, they'll be able to find ways to counter you.

You can have a signature spell without it being your ONLY spell. Or you can go down in history as the wizard who got killed because he was too stubborn to change strategies. There will be a chapter dedicated to you in Magic 101 in wizard school, teaching young mages what not to do.

I’m fine with that. :) this is a character concept i’ve been dying to do for literal years. But at the same time i’ve figured out how to do 72d4+72 damage this turn and 144d4+144 next turn. His name is “Gatling” XD i love him sooo much

[AceDragonKing]

I would also consider the force needle feat as a backup. It's something that's not a spell so can't be blocked by spellblades. It's also something you can just do any turn where another magic missile isn't the answer. The fact that it provides +1 CL on all force spells, magic missile included, is just a nice secondary bonus.

You sir are a gentleman and a scholar.

[Biggus]

Do you have a way around the Spell Immunity series? Lesser Spell Immunity is only a 2nd-level spell and unlike Shield can be cast on others apart from the caster...

[Kuulvheysoon]

I would also consider the force needle feat as a backup. It's something that's not a spell so can't be blocked by spellblades. It's also something you can just do any turn where another magic missile isn't the answer. The fact that it provides +1 CL on all force spells, magic missile included, is just a nice secondary bonus.


You sir are a gentleman and a scholar.

Note that you'll have to be nonefficient in your metamagic layering if you want to get the best use out of it. It only deals 1d4 per spell level of the highest level force effect that you have memorized, and you need to have a spell that deals force damage of 3rd level or higher prepared and uncast. It also needs a ranged touch attack, though (not a ranged touch attack) to connect, and the range is terrifyingly small (5 feet per spell level).

On the plus side, however, it's a (Su)pernatural ability. That means that it can't be countered or dispelled, and perhaps most brilliantly it isn't subject to spell resistance.

[KillianHawkeye]

Note that you'll have to be nonefficient in your metamagic layering if you want to get the best use out of it. It only deals 1d4 per spell level of the highest level force effect that you have memorized, and you need to have a spell that deals force damage of 3rd level or higher prepared and uncast. It also needs a ranged touch attack, though (not a ranged touch attack) to connect, and the range is terrifyingly small (5 feet per spell level).

On the plus side, however, it's a (Su)pernatural ability. That means that it can't be countered or dispelled, and perhaps most brilliantly it isn't subject to spell resistance.

You meant to say that it's a ranged attack roll (not a ranged touch attack).

Also, he's going to need Heighten Spell metamagic in order to make use of this ability, since the rules for reserve feats make no exception for metamagic, and most metamagic feats don't raise the actual spell level of the modified spell. Ergo, since he's dedicated to only preparing magic missile (a 1st level spell), he won't ever have a 3rd level force spell to fuel the feat otherwise.

[Kuulvheysoon]

You meant to say that it's a ranged attack roll (not a ranged touch attack).

Also, he's going to need Heighten Spell metamagic in order to make use of this ability, since the rules for reserve feats make no exception for metamagic, and most metamagic feats don't raise the actual spell level of the modified spell. Ergo, since he's dedicated to only preparing magic missile (a 1st level spell), he won't ever have a 3rd level force spell to fuel the feat otherwise.

I did mean that, yeah.

...and clearly I've played too much 5E recently. Can't believe that I missed that bit (about metamagic not changing the actual spell level). Thanks for the correction.

[AceDragonKing]

You meant to say that it's a ranged attack roll (not a ranged touch attack).

Also, he's going to need Heighten Spell metamagic in order to make use of this ability, since the rules for reserve feats make no exception for metamagic, and most metamagic feats don't raise the actual spell level of the modified spell. Ergo, since he's dedicated to only preparing magic missile (a 1st level spell), he won't ever have a 3rd level force spell to fuel the feat otherwise.

I do in fact plan on getting heighten spell it’s on my list of feats to take. i plan on taking it at 12 lvl

[Thurbane]

It's a neat character concept, and I'd never tell anyone what or how they should play, but as others have said, any single gimmick character can end up being shut down hard, even if the DM isn't going out of their way to screw you over.

Brooches of Shielding are a surprisingly common item in pre-written modules: my current party is 5th level, and we've actually picked up more than we can use already.

Also, it isn't at all uncommon for enemy Wizards and Sorcerers to have a Shield spell up. (Minor) Globe of Invulnerability may also be an issue.

Addiotnally, you'll need to be wary of creatures with Spell Resistance. You could pump up your caster level check with Spell Penetration etc. but from the amount of metamagic you've mentioned, sounds like you are already investing a lot of feats.

[AceDragonKing]

It's a neat character concept, and I'd never tell anyone what or how they should play, but as others have said, any single gimmick character can end up being shut down hard, even if the DM isn't going out of their way to screw you over.

Brooches of Shielding are a surprisingly common item in pre-written modules: my current party is 5th level, and we've actually picked up more than we can use already.

Also, it isn't at all uncommon for enemy Wizards and Sorcerers to have a Shield spell up. (Minor) Globe of Invulnerability may also be an issue.

Addiotnally, you'll need to be wary of creatures with Spell Resistance. You could pump up your caster level check with Spell Penetration etc. but from the amount of metamagic you've mentioned, sounds like you are already investing a lot of feats.

Oh yeah trust me i know every single feat i have is a meta magic feat except for my arcane thesis to let me stack more metamagics and my prerequisite feats for force missile mage and incantrix so i can get more meta magic’s. I’m not taking anything that buffs ac, hp, saves nothing. i just want to unleash a barrage of missiles. (twinned, repeat, quickened, intensify(pathfinder) ) to launch 24 missiles as a swift action, then doing it again except using other meta magic’s instead of quickened to do another 24. for 48 missiles per turn. that auto casts its self next turn in addition to what i will cast myself for 96 missiles per turn next turn. Which is why i named my character “Gatling” :D

also on the shield, broach of shielding, spell resistance/spell penetration front. i have a class feature and a metamagic for this

Overpowering Missle: At 3rd level, the force missile mage's Magic Missile spells become especially potent, breaking through spell resistance more readily than normal. He gains a +2 bonus on caster level checks made to overcome a creature's spell resistance with the spell Magic Missile. This benefit only applies to Magic Missile spells he casts. In addition, a force missile mage's Magic Missiles might penetrate Shield spells and Brooches of Shielding. Against such protections, the force missile mage makes a caster level check with a DC equal to the caster level, in the case of Shield, or DC 20, in the case of a brooch.

Fortify Spell

( Complete Arcane, p. 80)

[Metamagic]

You cast spells that more easily penetrate spell resistance.
Prerequisite
Benefit
A fortified spell is treated as having a higher caster level for the purpose of defeating a target's spell resistance. You prepare and cast the spell in a higher-level spell slot than normal, with each additional level giving a +2 bonus on spell penetration checks for the altered spell. Spells that are not subject to spell resistance are not affected. A fortified spell uses up a spell slot at least one level higher than the spell's actual level.

My main problem is since i’m going to heavily invested in magic missile my DM warned me that if i become to well known. That i would cause enemy’s who plan to move against us to start making spellblades. Which i have no way of beating (to my knowledge which is why i made the post.

BUT I JUST LOVE THIS COMMUNITY SO MUCH! THEY GIVE OUT SUCH HELPFUL ADVICE AND IDEAS AND POINT OUT POSSIBLE WEAKNESSES!!! YOU GUYS ARE THE BEST EVERYINE LOOKING OUT FOR ME AND EACH OTHER! :D