Average Drow NPC level?

[Mercurial891]

What is the average Drow like? If an army successfully invaded Menzoberranzen with the intent to conquer and subjugate it’s people, what would that army find?

[AvatarVecna]

What is the average Drow like? If an army successfully invaded Menzoberranzen with the intent to conquer and subjugate it’s people, what would that army find?

If the lore is any indication, a circle of dead drow going all around the city, with each drow stabbing the drow in front of them. The world's dumbest congaline, an ouroboros of pointless backstabbing.

[Mercurial891]

If the lore is any indication, a circle of dead drow going all around the city, with each drow stabbing the drow in front of them. The world's dumbest congaline, an ouroboros of pointless backstabbing.

You just won the internet!

[Fizban]

Rules-wise, there's nothing that makes the drow any more special than other humanoids. Their average class level across the population rounds down to 1, just like anyone else, because they use the same generation rules- either their "tribal/military" Monster Manual entry which has groups of 1st level warriors with occasional 2nd-9th level leaders (which can reach an average of 2nd level if you turn the number of individuals down and their levels up to max), or they use city generation, which has 95% of the population as 1st level commoners.

In practice, the average Drow NPC level is whatever the writer feels like. Even more so that other races the Drow are given a massive pass on any concept of limited xp and skill among their population, written explicitly with the idea that every Drow individual is sufficiently badass to scare the PCs on general principle. It's ridiculous, doesn't hold up to any examination, and only works if the Drow's level is changed to match the PCs and they never encounter any meant for a lower level party. But it's how they're used.

[AvatarVecna]

Rules-wise, there's nothing that makes the drow any more special than other humanoids. Their average class level across the population rounds down to 1, just like anyone else, because they use the same generation rules- either their "tribal/military" Monster Manual entry which has groups of 1st level warriors with occasional 2nd-9th level leaders (which can reach an average of 2nd level if you turn the number of individuals down and their levels up to max), or they use city generation, which has 95% of the population as 1st level commoners.

In practice, the average Drow NPC level is whatever the writer feels like. Even more so that other races the Drow are given a massive pass on any concept of limited xp and skill among their population, written explicitly with the idea that every Drow individual is sufficiently badass to scare the PCs on general principle. It's ridiculous, doesn't hold up to any examination, and only works if the Drow's level is changed to match the PCs and they never encounter any meant for a lower level party. But it's how they're used.

It assumes that drow life is more dangerous than human life (which is probably fair), but to such a significant degree that basically everybody in a given settlement has seen enough combat to level at least once more than average...assuming you believe combat can give NPCs XP, anyway. This is extra-sillly because Drow have racial LA, so I'm pretty sure it actually takes them more XP to gain a second level than it would take most other humanoids? Any way of looking at it either should have drow as no more overleveled than any other elves, or they are overleveled, but other elves (and for that matter, dwarves) should be as well, just as a result of the number of combat encounters it's apparently-reasonable to assume they've dealt with over the course of the century-long path to adulthood.

The only other way they could really get that much more leveled than other races is if drow as a whole - not individual guards, not priestesses or mages, every single drow - is picking more fights than your average human or elf per year. This only makes sense if all of drow society is basically a constant dance of trying to backstab your superiors while trying to avoid getting backstabbed by your subordinates. This matches up with the drow fluff, except for the part where that means each survivor probably has a dozen murders under their belt by adulthood. So it still doesn't make sense unless drow just breed like bunnies compared to other elves.

Endless nonsense.

[Tzardok]

So it still doesn't make sense unless drow just breed like bunnies compared to other elves.


I'm pretty sure that is canon as of Drow of the Underdark. On the other hand, I just remembered the article on Drow in the Dragon Magazine that claimed that every drow pregnancy involves half a dozen fetuses that kill each other in the womb. That's propably were they get the XP for their first level up. :smallbiggrin:

[Rhyltran]

I'm pretty sure that is canon as of Drow of the Underdark. On the other hand, I just remembered the article on Drow in the Dragon Magazine that claimed that every drow pregnancy involves half a dozen fetuses that kill each other in the womb. That's propably were they get the XP for their first level up. :smallbiggrin:

Don't forget that Drow not only do breed like bunnies (you aren't wrong. They are violent hedonists.) But they also have quite a few dangerous slaves. That can include hobgoblins, goblins, orcs, bugbear, and other evil races. These races being evil themselves will likely try to murder their masters first chance they get. This could also contribute to Drow exp.

Further in Drow in the Underdark it mentions frequent skirmishes against rival houses but typically that involves mostly slave forces with drow commanders/drow acting as special forces killing said slave reserves.

[Fizban]

If a PC has one fight in which they have a serious 50/50 chance of dying per level (a boss fight at +4 EL), and only survives because the PCs get waaaay more treasure than NPCs and they also have uber-adventurer skillz thanks to metagaming and time-stop level reaction times while people take their turns and also a 4 person mixed party with all the roles, what are the odds an NPC gets to level X via combat? The approximate exponential regression of 1/10 of the 1/10 non-farming people used in generating high level NPCs for cities is pretty reasonable. But even if 90% of "Drow" city populations are actually enslaved non-drow farmers (that'd put them at Sparta tier), that still leaves only roughly 1/10 of Drow being above 1st level, no better than the tribal/military breakdown.


For the longest time I actually thought there was a rule somewhere that said people that live in certain areas all are X level higher based on the threat of the area, but I'm pretty sure by now that it was either an initial misreading of the city generation, or more likely my own instant idea in how to fix the perceived problem that said people should be a higher level because they have to survive monsters of X level, since I have never been able to actually find such a rule.

[mattie_p]

For the longest time I actually thought there was a rule somewhere that said people that live in certain areas all are X level higher based on the threat of the area, but I'm pretty sure by now that it was either an initial misreading of the city generation, or more likely my own instant idea in how to fix the perceived problem that said people should be a higher level because they have to survive monsters of X level, since I have never been able to actually find such a rule.

Fizban, that's not quite the way the rule exists, although it is close. What you're looking for can be found in the 3.0 DMG on page 133, table 4-37. There's a modifier to the level of the highest-leveled NPCs in the community (which is in addition to the community size modifier for NPC levels). This has a trickle-down effect in creating more leveled NPCs in a given community, but does nothing to change the fact that the vast majority of residents are still level 1.

[RNightstalker]

In the Homeland trilogy, Salvatore goes to great depths describing how ALL drow in the city are trained for combat and regularly go out on raids. One either levels up or dies.

[Fizban]

Fizban, that's not quite the way the rule exists, although it is close. What you're looking for can be found in the 3.0 DMG on page 133, table 4-37. There's a modifier to the level of the highest-leveled NPCs in the community (which is in addition to the community size modifier for NPC levels). This has a trickle-down effect in creating more leveled NPCs in a given community, but does nothing to change the fact that the vast majority of residents are still level 1.
Oh I had checked the 3.0 DMG, it has various bits and bobs that were lost, but I didn't check the terrain section. Thanks for the find.

[Particle_Man]

I wonder if the drider effect lowers the average drow level, as failed high level drow become driders instead?

[Metastachydium]

In the Homeland trilogy, Salvatore goes to great depths describing how ALL drow in the city are trained for combat and regularly go out on raids. One either levels up or dies.

(Well, a 1st level drow commoner is proficient with two martial weapons and an exotic one by virtue of being a drow, which means that after a fashion, ALL drow are trained for combat. That doesn't mean they are ALL good at it, though: a 1st level drow commoner (trained for combat!) will still be brought down by a well-placed hit from a dagger or a well-aimed slingstone.)

[RNightstalker]

(Well, a 1st level drow commoner is proficient with two martial weapons and an exotic one by virtue of being a drow, which means that after a fashion, ALL drow are trained for combat. That doesn't mean they are ALL good at it, though: a 1st level drow commoner (trained for combat!) will still be brought down by a well-placed hit from a dagger or a well-aimed slingstone.)

Back to the OP, I would imagine the average drow NPC has actual class levels. A well placed confirmed critical can down characters with a few class levels.