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fighter_chick
2007-11-15, 08:00 PM
Some of you may have already found the following thread, if not here it is:

I am a relatively new gamer in D&D, and I have a problem. My problem is my DM has decided to allow one of my friend's level 17 warmage gnome, level 16 halfdragon fighter, and level 17 human assassin take my current gaming group. We are currently all around level 9 and ten, but we are being leveled up for this encounter.
The player we are to going up against is much more experienced than anyone else in my group (he has been playing for seven years now, compared to my seven months). He has a number of modifications on his characters that make this a very worrisome contest for my party. Firstly his warmage used a wish spell to cast teleport at will. He also has an obseenly high armor class, along with the the warmage's excellent will saves. I am completely lost as to how I should even begin to try attacking him.
The halfdragon fighter is also a cause of worry for my party. Apparently he has a strength score of 40, and he also is equipped with a ridiculous amount of magical items and weapons. As to the assassin, I am ignorant to what his capabilities are.

My party:
Half dragon cleric of Kord
Domains of strength and luck
has high wisdom and strength scores

Human fighter
Specializes in bastard swords and heavy armor
has improved mount feat
several score modifying items
high strength, charisma, dex, and const

Human Rogue
Has a large arsenal of powerful and evil items
has spiderclimb ability
high dex score, but that's about it

Four-armed orcish variant
has very high strength, but low int., cha., and dex
uses long spear four handed

Half orc barbarian
Really good ability scores
uses enchanted great axes
has some other decent magic items

any suggestions on how to overcome my arrogant friend would be great.


Ok, so you all have been very helpful.... but only for the cleric. the rest of my group would really really like some pointers too. Im the fighter of the group and the most inexperienced. so if you could give me some really good pointers to help me against the boys that would be awesome! Thanks!

Bosh
2007-11-15, 08:10 PM
An 8-level gap?
Tell your DM to stop being an idiot.

VerdugoExplode
2007-11-15, 08:13 PM
Isn't this an exact copy of the other warmage thread? Shame on you.

Crow
2007-11-15, 08:20 PM
8 level gap? You're screwed.

Knolan
2007-11-15, 08:21 PM
Well, a solution is having a spell storing weapon and put an enlarged silence on it, it will give you a 40 ft radius are of silence, make all the group get some ranks on perform so they can make gestures to communicate.
Cleric should counter spell only, I recommend the fighters get themselves a way to trip (weapons and so), as soon as the enemies are tripped, you active the weapon.
Getting the rogue a scroll of polymorth can be great, as a 12 headed hydras he can peform 12 sneak attacks per round, which hurts a lot. Cleric should support and counterspell only, on tome of battle there is a spell called battlefield perception, it will allow him to counter the first strike with ease.

Alternativelly, if you don't mind abusing bugs, there is a spell called greater shivering touch on the book called Frostburn, it makes 3d6 damage of dextery, you can use a rod of lesser maximize (which is pretty cheap) or metamagic feats, or even those divine metamagics feats to maximize it, total 18 points of dex damage, the warmage will probably reach 0 dex, so would the fighter, the assasin might be able to survive.
My last advice is to check PH II, great talents there. If you have high charisma, you might consider getting a few levels of marshal to give your friends a very good bonus of initiative.

fighter_chick
2007-11-15, 08:27 PM
sorry i guess it wasnt said that we are going to get to level up to equal levels with them, or at least very close. and as for using the same thread, i did say if you didnt get it before here it is.....i have permission from the person to use it, we are in the same campain, so i am sorry if i have broken any type of rule doing that. but hey thanks for all the help so far

greenknight
2007-11-15, 08:42 PM
The reason there's been so little advice for the non-Clerics is that at mid to high levels, non-spellcasters aren't really all that good. The spellcasters can pretty much end fights with a single spell at that level, while the nonspellcasters are trying to hack away - unless they try to become semi-spellcasters themselves (Rogues can Use Magic Device very effectively for that, although Bards are even better). Make no mistake - a good spellcaster at higher levels can completely dominate everyone else. As a non-spellcaster, I've already suggested your best option on the other thread - buy necklaces of adaptation all round, and then open some bags of sneezing and choking when a foe gets close (or when one of your characters can get close to a foe).

If you don't want to do that, a while ago Sir Giacomo posted a fairly effective Core Fighter only build here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2350242&postcount=457). It's designed to fight a Balor, but the basic idea is good against almost anything. You could also try the Shock Trooper (feat from Complete Warrior) approach, provided you think you stand a chance of hitting your foe's AC.

JaxGaret
2007-11-15, 08:52 PM
Isn't this an exact copy of the other warmage thread? Shame on you.

Not to be mean or anything, but did you read the entire OP?

Go back and read it again, including the last paragraph.

brian c
2007-11-15, 09:13 PM
It's been said, but I'll say it again: there is no way that the Wish spell, whether cast by a PC or granted by an item, should give someone the ability to Teleport at will. The text of the spell is here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/wish.htm) if you'd like to see for yourself. The "spell replication" properties only count once. you can use the Wish spell to cast Teleport one time, not infinitely. While the wording does allow for other benefits to be awarded, it strongly hints that DMs should basically screw over any player who wishes for something that is stronger than what's on this list. My point being, your opponent is being helped out by some major rules-bending; it'll very hard to have a fair fight under these circumstances.

That said, for a Fighter, here's a good idea. Spiked Chain, Combat Reflexes, Knockdown, Stand Still. Someone can probably link to the full "lockdown" build, but the idea is total battlefield control, you hit everyone anytime they move, and anytime they don't move you hit them too, plus they can't cast while you're hitting them.

VerdugoExplode
2007-11-15, 09:18 PM
Fool me twice, shame on me. I am thusly forsook and will repent my wicked ways!

JaxGaret
2007-11-15, 09:23 PM
Fool me twice, shame on me. I am thusly forsook and will repent my wicked ways!

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/5528/repentbigscrubbedlr0.gif

:smallsmile:

AKA_Bait
2007-11-15, 09:40 PM
Get your meleers items that activate an AMF field and items that let them teleport. One of them should be able to get right up on the mage and activate the AMF. Then just beat the snot out of him. The other two shouldn't be that hard to take.

Woot Spitum
2007-11-15, 10:30 PM
It's been said, but I'll say it again: there is no way that the Wish spell, whether cast by a PC or granted by an item, should give someone the ability to Teleport at will. The text of the spell is here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/wish.htm) if you'd like to see for yourself. The "spell replication" properties only count once. you can use the Wish spell to cast Teleport one time, not infinitely. While the wording does allow for other benefits to be awarded, it strongly hints that DMs should basically screw over any player who wishes for something that is stronger than what's on this list. My point being, your opponent is being helped out by some major rules-bending; it'll very hard to have a fair fight under these circumstances.

That said, for a Fighter, here's a good idea. Spiked Chain, Combat Reflexes, Knockdown, Stand Still. Someone can probably link to the full "lockdown" build, but the idea is total battlefield control, you hit everyone anytime they move, and anytime they don't move you hit them too, plus they can't cast while you're hitting them.
On the other hand, it lets you ask to use Miracle for similar stuff.:smallbiggrin:

brian c
2007-11-15, 11:38 PM
On the other hand, it lets you ask to use Miracle for similar stuff.:smallbiggrin:

Can replicate non Sorc/Wiz spells of 6th level or lower. Miracle is a 9th level spell.

greenknight
2007-11-16, 02:35 AM
Can replicate non Sorc/Wiz spells of 6th level or lower. Miracle is a 9th level spell.

Miracle can replicate any spell of 7th level or lower, for no XP cost. That means all Bard, Paladin and Ranger spells, along with the entire spell list of several PrCs (such as Assassin). It also duplicates most spells on the Druid and Sorc/Wiz spell list. Not bad at all.

On topic, the battlefield control Fighter isn't a bad idea. Be sure to combine it with items which improve your chance to hit (look into Heroes Feast and Pale Green Ioun Stones while you're at it).

Nero24200
2007-11-16, 02:53 AM
D'n'D is an RP Dungeon crawl game first, PVP game second, it's not balanced for PVP fights, which means it usally boils down to
1. Who has the better powerbuild
2. Who has the most favourable circimstances
3. And in this case, which one is favoured by the DM, which your opponents cleary are. Personally, I'd tell him to use an actual character and not that peice of crap. Teleport at will? I don't recall it saying anywhere in the wish spell entry that it replicates a lower level spell....at will...

Personally, if I was you, I'd tell your DM "No, make it a fair fight and I'll join in", or better yet, show him this thread and the other thread, maybe upon seeing alot of folk posting the same thing, he/she might start to click.

Kizara
2007-11-16, 05:33 AM
Where's the old thread?

I don't see any links, and I can't find it. I made a rather lengthy post on it, and was wanting to see if anyone responded.

ReluctantReaper
2007-11-16, 09:03 AM
Kizara here is the link http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63383&page=2

Roderick_BR
2007-11-16, 10:36 AM
A suggestion for the fighter is the dwarven warpike from Races of Stone. It's exotic, base damage 2d6 for medium creatures, damage type slashing or piercing, critical x3, has reach (can't attack adjacent enemies), can be set against chargers (very useful against most barbarians and fighters), and can be used on trips. Large array of abilities.

Taffimai
2007-11-16, 11:09 AM
There have been many good ideas already, and I would like to add that you can make really nasty magic items by following the guidelines in the DMG.

One of my favourites is an item that gives you a continuous True Strike (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/trueStrike.htm) (+/-2000gp), but really, the sky is the limit.

AKA_Bait
2007-11-16, 11:14 AM
One of my favourites is an item that gives you a continuous True Strike (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/trueStrike.htm) (+/-2000gp), but really, the sky is the limit.

Of course, as has been said before, that's a total misuse of the magical item guidelines but considering how your DM let the other folks abuse wish in this case turnabout is fair play.

Epic_Wizard
2007-11-16, 11:38 AM
A sword through the gut stops most people in my experience. It would help to know what the situation is. If you are in a dungeon summoning in a dragon is out but causing a cave in on top of their War-Mage might help. If you are going to start the fight then I would suggest setting up something to get back to that War-Mage and separate him from his friends and/or drive the aforementioned sword through his gut before they can stop you. The Rogue + Improved Invisibility might pull it off.

From the look of it you shouldn't pull any punches and should be as sneaky and underhanded as possible. To wit "If violence wasn't you last resort you failed to resort to enough of it." -Schlock Mercenary

Something like taking that high stats fighter and Polymorphing him into a burrowing/even stronger creature could also be an idea. I would also suggest having a bag full of Debuffs that your non casters can activate ready to deal with things like that 40 Str. Also if you are outdoors keep in mind that the Half Dragon can fly if he has wings.

Generally this encounter is in your favor due to larger numbers which is something you should be careful not to give up. Flanking enemies, using multiple Wounding weapons, and devastating single target effects are all good options here. Remember if all else fails and you are going to loose then cut your losses, create a big explosive distraction, and teleport away.

Oh yeah and to deal with the teleporting guy I would suggest that you either use a Dimensional Anchor spell or do something really mean like use the spell in the Spell Compendium that dellays incoming teleports in an area. He could easily be out of the fight for several rounds and still have to move to get to a target when he does materialize.

Name_Here
2007-11-16, 12:01 PM
Isn't this an exact copy of the other warmage thread? Shame on you.

Oh thank god.

I thought I was going crazy when I came in here and saw everybody helping.